I'm Skeptical

General discussion about the two books by Michel Desmarquet. Please ONLY post questions that do not fit in any of the available specialized forums.

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Essene
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Post: # 9291Post Essene »

Well if that is true then it looks like there is an error in TP, and any substantial error leads to the possibility that the book is a lie. I do not want it to be but hey if it is I'll have to accept it .
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
Andreas
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Proof?

Post: # 9294Post Andreas »

Hello hack5paz, welcome. I'm as always curious, what is a proof for you? What would it take to prove anything to a healthy sceptic like yourself?

/Andreas
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Rezo
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Post: # 9295Post Rezo »

Just to be clear, I don't want to confuse anybody - I am skeptical to that article, I don't side/agree with it. It is simplistic and possibly mistranslation and jumping to conclusions [can a katakana/classical japanese reader please confirm?]. Quite often, research and conclusions are based on approaches based on what we feel must be true - in effect, we project our subjective beliefs [like heisenberg principle] to the truth and unknowingly come to a possibly wrong conclusion. Incidentally, the first thread here - explains the existence of the tomb before 1935.

http://www.fulldisklosure.org/smfnew/in ... opic=630.0

It is mentioned that it was actually there for generations! Who is right???? In the end - I really know and understand now, that physical proof is never enough, and it always helps to have a conversational evidence, which is why writing is one of the most sought after pieces of evidence when researching important historical figures. So the real key I think is in deciphering the meaning of the song, which as I understand it is still going on today.
" There is a single general space, a single vast immensity which we may freely call void: in it are unnumerable globes like this on which we live and grow, this space we declare to be infinite, since neither reason, convenience, sense-perception nor nature assign to it a limit."

-Giordano Bruno
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shezmear
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Post: # 9296Post shezmear »

Hi hack5paz, I read your post and I to am skeptical, even I can safely say I am one of the few people on the planet that has really gone about as far as I can into the book, the only thing I have not done is meet Michel, although that may be a good and a bad thing for my view of the book, as I have meet people who have spent time with Michel.

Although I can see there is no point in proof on earth in some cases, I think in some ways proof would help a lot, you see none of us can really verify if Michel is telling the truth 100%, reason being none of us can really gain direct experience of the people of thiaoouba, which is partially their choosing, Tom spent much time trying to talk with them, travel to their planet in astral to no avail, gee I even tried my self.

If you step right back and look at it at face value, they Take a Farmer, get him to write a book and do not return or offer him proof to validate his story, which by all conventional standards is out of this world, so when 0.0000000001% of the population read the book, and even less get it, it really makes you wonder how street wise the people of thaioouba are.

You see I’m not believer, and I don’t know either, so I’m kind of on the fence, but if I could sit down with Thao, me and it would have little chat about the marketing campaign for their message because in many cases it does not even make it off the starting line, because to the people that are not up with the information your asking them to make a huge leap of faith with out anything to catch them.

So if you’re skeptical, I’m not surprised, in fact if you put the book down and never read it again, my response will be, “I never saw that coming….”
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
TempUser
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Post: # 9298Post TempUser »

One Simple Reply To hack5paz would be that he apparently doesn't take his truthful quote very seriously. For the authority he once questioned has now succeeded in making him skeptically blind. It also appears that he doesn't read what tom writes very thoroughly...even a 'skeptic scientist' should be able to see that the article makes sense.
shezmear wrote: Hi hack5paz, I read your post and I to am skeptical, even I can safely say I am one of the few people on the planet that has really gone about as far as I can into the book, the only thing I have not done is meet Michel, although that may be a good and a bad thing for my view of the book, as I have meet people who have spent time with Michel.

Although I can see there is no point in proof on earth in some cases, I think in some ways proof would help a lot, you see none of us can really verify if Michel is telling the truth 100%, reason being none of us can really gain direct experience of the people of thiaoouba, which is partially their choosing, Tom spent much time trying to talk with them, travel to their planet in astral to no avail, gee I even tried my self.

If you step right back and look at it at face value, they Take a Farmer, get him to write a book and do not return or offer him proof to validate his story, which by all conventional standards is out of this world, so when 0.0000000001% of the population read the book, and even less get it, it really makes you wonder how street wise the people of thaioouba are.

You see I’m not believer, and I don’t know either, so I’m kind of on the fence, but if I could sit down with Thao, me and it would have little chat about the marketing campaign for their message because in many cases it does not even make it off the starting line, because to the people that are not up with the information your asking them to make a huge leap of faith with out anything to catch them.

So if you’re skeptical, I’m not surprised, in fact if you put the book down and never read it again, my response will be, “I never saw that coming….”
You must be on the top of a fence which has barbwires.....perhaps you have been caught by the barb's and are dangling from them...Maybe you shouldn't of climbed on the fence in the first place? For not too far there was a gate which would swing open to the other side. #-o

For being someone who claims to have taken the book to face value, it really seems more like you wiped the book with your arse...no offense. There are a LOT of things you have NOT done for being one who claims 'I am one of the few people on the planet that has really gone about as far as I can into the book, the only thing I have not done is meet Michel'. You APPEAR to have not done very much as I have already reiterated...you appear to have done all of the un-important and useless things as far as I'm concerned. :roll: I assume that when you said you got into the book...you weren't talking about the message, or even proving the message, to yourself &/or others...but, more of proving as to whether the event really happened. As some of us might already know proving whether or not it happened is currently NOT possible, if and when it is possible to prove that it happened, it would be a waste of time anyways. Proving whether the message is true, currently IS possible, and would prove MUCH more useful as it would not only benefit the readers who have came across the book, but the rest of the inhabitants of planet earth as well, and in many aspects of society and spirituality.

There actually are plenty of clues around us(even through the filtered and perverted information that's released among the mass) that can prove it's MESSAGE to be true.
If you truly were one of the few on this planet who have gone as far into the book as you can, as you claim to have done...you would realize this, the TRUTH behind the message and the fact that proving the validity of the abduction story doesn't really accomplish much.

Proving the abduction true, would however, attract more attention worldwide. Which would speed the process of change and give a greater probability of mankind saving itself... it would be easier to do something about what is clearly happening in our society as the message states, if more people would believe that not only do the messengers exist, but that the event definately happened... as it would be much easier to convince skeptics with a story which makes strong claims, that has proof to support the not only the event that took place but the claims being made(although there actually is proof of truth hidden in the lies through even the most filtered information in our society).

It would be easier to convince people they are living inside a box when you can first prove they are even inside one. If only some would open their ears and listen. :listen music: But without proof, there is still hope for those with logic to see the faults of proof in such a case as the one presented by this book. For those stuck inside the box, if you can't prove it to them, you can always inspire them with truths about the beauty and joy of being outside of the box, and help them to realize how unhealthy it is to be inside of one. That being said we both appear to contradict ourselves in claiming that we realize proof is pointless. But I only stated that proving the validity of the abduction would be pointless...only afterwards to contradict my statement with reasons why it would be valuable...in all I still lean more toward the fact that it actually would be more important to prove the MESSAGE and not the validity of the Story behind the Messenger.

If you really were to have that conversation with Thao...wow... no offense, but it would be such a waste. First of all, I would think if any human being had sense(no offense), and if they also happened to have the rare opportunity to speak with Thao...I'm sure they would pick a MUCH more interesting topic than Marketing. Hopefully something that would actually prove useful to mankind as a whole. As I'm sure that such a person with SENSE would realize the fact that the thiaooubans were NOT concentrating on ways to get the book to sell...in other words marketing the message was the LAST thing they had in mind.For many OBVIOUS reasons. One which Captain Obvious can point out would be; Due to the fact that they don't ignorantly run a primitive civilization based SOLEY on a monetary structure, they therefore have no knowledge of marketing, and don't need such primitive knowledge. That being said... It is pointless, useless, and un-valuable information to them. Not only that, they have PURE intentions being as spiritually evolved as they are, marketing the message would contradict the whole point of spreading it and would even contradict their spiritual intentions.

Considering the better sides of marketing, it would of been a GREAT way to get the book circulating the mass. But the message(the WHOLE POINT of the book) would be edited and perverted in so many ways because as you probably know marketing works mainly because of perverted information in ways to attract customers. Everything this books intends on solving, would probably contradict the method of marketing anways, as it clearly states money as a huge problem in our society. Money being the whole reason marketing was made...it just completely disagrees with marketing. This book would only appeal to most if it expanded in great detail on un-important distorted self-preservative issues(weight loss, financial advice, etc.) that they think can easily be solved by getting help from others, who provide half-a$$ truths so they can keep them confused in a way that they come back for more.... rather than bigger issues that should be of concern. Which is what this book actually warns us about. No doubt we should help ourselves(not too selfishly I believe) in staying happy, understanding love, and appreciating life, as part of the process to grow and learn. Which is part of the reason why we exist in the first place...since the system has done a good job in keeping people from realizing that they can help themselves...this book wouldn't appeal...so I'm pretty sure that you understand by now, if you actually non-selectively read this whole message(as you have appeared to have read Thiaooba Prophecy), that marketing would distort and pervert the message in too many ways that it would be pointless to have even written the book.

Their intent was not to help Michel and Tom make money, but to enlighten the people of Earth...and I fear, and hate to admit that it appears... they have failed in saving us... for I see many skeptics among us and am aware the many more on earth who although have logic to be skeptical....they aren't logical in the fact that proving the abduction valid is pointless, but that they should rather concentrate on the fact that the message is TRUE and something SHOULD be done about it...before it's too late... :-({|= :help:
survivor
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Post: # 9301Post survivor »

Not a convincing rant there AaronNZM, do you have something to defend?

http://www.micheldesmarquet.com
an act against {free will} is an act against nature
NJones
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Post: # 9302Post NJones »

From page 52:
‘A certain percentage of these people are arriving at a very critical point in history and we feel
that the time has come to try to assist them. If they will listen, we can ensure that they take the
right path. This is why you have been chosen...’
From this we could deduce that the book was meant for only a certain percentage of the population. Now if that certain percentage has read the message then the Thiaooubians mission could be seen as a success.

I believe Michel was asked to highlight this sentence, but not told why. This sentence has been discussed already in some detail in this forum.

Just a thought.
Essene
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Post: # 9305Post Essene »

I agree with Njones.

I have come to realize that TP will not be the catalyst for a 'worldwide' revolution because at the end of the day most people are happy to stay the way they are. I believe that TP was intended as help and instruction to only certain people on this planet, those who want the help that TP can offer. If some of the readers here (namely myself) have not acted accordingly on the info in the book then there is little chance the average person will. The ironic thing is that the world would be a much better place for everybody if our system was based around the teachings of TP.

The path that TP shows is a hard path as opposed to doing nothing and staying the way we are. How many of us here are willing to live and die like Jesus did? Most people find it hard enough to battle with their weight, let alone sticking to meditation, healthy eating and upholding morality...
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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shezmear
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Post: # 9308Post shezmear »

AaronNZM, I read the first part of your post and it’s pretty offensive, So I’m not reading the rest of it, and I don’t really even have the energy to argue with you or to talk about your complete disregard of what I was trying to say, do I need to say?, you know nothing about me,

And it’s like you want to some how communicate but you mange to piss me off then, want me to listen to what you’re saying…..and I’m trying but it just rude….

It’s likely you’re trading on the very fact that you’re not sitting in front me saying all this garbage….

You’re just a disturbance, Jesus, I now need to go and clear myself after reading your loaded nonsense….

And for the record…Right back at you… PUNK!

Essene, I whole hearted agree...
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
oukleumas
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Post: # 9310Post oukleumas »

hi hack, your exactly like me, lol, except maybe a bit more skeptical.

I disagree with alot of Tom's article, especially that Earth can explode due to global warming, and I even thought the same as you, if this was so, Venus would have blown up.

I even carry that quote around you have alot.

----

About the Asteroid Belt, I think Tom is right that the Asteroid Belt was the result of a planet that dispersed, but not of an explosion, but a collision. Please read: http://www.sitchin.com/asteroid.htm

"One theory is that these are remains from the time when primordial matter around the Sun coalesced into planets, but these bits and pieces failed to do so. Another theory is that these are remains of a planet that did form there, but that it somehow broke up; the inability to explain how or why it broke up has been the reason why this theory has not been embraced by scientists."

I don't see how a planet can suddenly fail to attract towards each other and push away instead. It makes no sense, perhaps in the middle of its formation, something equal or greater in size collided with it regressing it's progress to form a planet. I think of it as curvature, how can they suddenly push out of this curved hole?
Essene
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Post: # 9311Post Essene »

I would be interested to know what Tom's response would be when asked why Venus does not blow up...
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
ArioK
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The Reverend Brian

Post: # 9312Post ArioK »

The Reverend Brian of Mississauga, Ontario Canada. Until you have first hand knowledge with the Light within no one can teach you what is Truth. Especially not some book. Or some Forum. If you are looking for Guidance look within, ask for guidance from your higher self. You cannot let go of your Loud music (You Love Tool and Perfect Circle) I am sure you still listen to them 3x to loud even after reading Thiaoouba. You Do not Know realize how much you have already hurt yourself, and continue to everyday. You can agree that everything in the Universe is just a vibration right? Your attachment to this world and all it's enticements, music being one of them, has lead you to a defense mechanism to hold onto what brings you joy in your life.

I do not know the circumstances in which you were raised. I do not know how some Canadian child is Programmed, What peers you had or Type of Parents you were raised by. What I do know is that Like any other Shining Light Upon Ones Face & Mind, a Reflex is to Put hand up and Block the Light and Turns Ones Face Away. One Day a Long Time from now you will realize that you are very blessed to have the Cogs in your mind Churning so early at the Age of 19, on something as surreal as Thiaoouba, yet so real. Most people cannot see beyond what is in front of their own two eyes. Your young, you want to enjoy you life, Drink Smoke have Sex and be Merry and Ignorant. You are not alone, although you feel you do. The Truth Hurts, but can you handle it ? Everyone on this forum has to come to terms with what path must walked on this Earth at one junction in their life or another.


You have no Discipline. If you have Real Discipline Your Tune would be Rather Different. You probably only tried the auric exercises a handful of times and then dismissed them for lack of discipline, willpower and your indecisive mind. You had to give it up because you could not go on. You didn't have instant gratification from instant result. It takes hard work.

"Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance." -- Albert Einstein.


People are afraid of how much they don't know and so like yourself, they protect their minds with integration blockages from any leap of faith, Any Axiom of Truth relayed from one mind to another is still faith & trust based. Again because the only thing I undoubtedly 100% know is "I", have to exist to have the experience of this post. The Atom itself is 99.9% hollow. So this entire material world in which I animate myself through is barely there. So When "I" come across a Gem like Thiaoouba, that i decide gives me some inspiration to REAL Knowledge ( I rather I give myself it) and REAL meaning to this this Once Meaningless World and all it's systems of Control, Materialism, Death Equaling Oceans of Blood and Tears is meant for something Better, I do not S**T on it like you,


Do you feel Truth When you hear it? Do you know Truth when you Read it ? The Thiaoouban Weapon of Truth, as I have judged it to be, can deliver some people from bondage.

One can only save oneself. I decide for myself. The Only thing I know in this world is I exist. The I am. This is 100% knowable. Everything else will only be able to approach a 99.9% Percentile. Because there will always lay a part of I, that will be skeptical. I can never turn you from being a Skeptic. No one Can. You must conquer yourself before you conquer the world.
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TempUser
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Post: # 9313Post TempUser »

shezmear wrote:AaronNZM, I read the first part of your post and it’s pretty offensive, So I’m not reading the rest of it, and I don’t really even have the energy to argue with you or to talk about your complete disregard of what I was trying to say, do I need to say?, you know nothing about me,

And it’s like you want to some how communicate but you mange to piss me off then, want me to listen to what you’re saying…..and I’m trying but it just rude….

It’s likely you’re trading on the very fact that you’re not sitting in front me saying all this garbage….

You’re just a disturbance, Jesus, I now need to go and clear myself after reading your loaded nonsense….

And for the record…Right back at you… PUNK!

Essene, I whole hearted agree...
I am truly sorry ShezMear. I hope you can accept my apology for what I did. I don't know you, but I was referring to the way you APPEARED in your message. I Have re-read it from a different POV and I realize how ignorantly rude I was being in trying to communicate my message. I should have approached it differently. As a matter of fact after posting it I already had a slight feeling that I went a bit far and was wrong in criticizing you in the way that I did. I can see that in doing such, it clearly didn't get my message across. As you have stated it to be nonsense. Filter out the ignorant bantering and look at what I'm trying to say. I have nothing to defend it except for the proof of people criticizing intelligent articles(tom's articles and his book(s)[tfoc], tp, etc) they apparently didn't thoroughly read....But, through criticizing others I realize faults of my own. I see faults in others that I have or once had in myself and I criticize them for it as a strange way of trying look at myself. I have a bad habit of hypocritically criticizing others, but mainly due to the fact that I too did the same thing they did, and I too feel the same way at times. Even if I were sitting in front of you I would of done the same...but it probably not been as offensive. I'm actually pretty weird in person(at the moment socially disconnected from the very society I criticize)...but I am NOT as rude as I appear on here. ...only to those obnoxious belligerent people who deserve such critical advice to show how negative and ignorant their attitudes are. I'm not referring to anyone here on this mark. Anyways...I vent through writing as a result of the imperfections I obviously have myself. :oops:

You see I too was skeptical of TP at one point in my life. I thought both books had good messages but I came to a reasoning that TP was a nicely tailored lie...and that both books were just trying to promote other books, their websites, and the shirt so that they could make money. (even though they are no-where near get rich quick schemes and if looked at clearly they all have good intentions). But I realized that a lot of my reasoning was due to the fact that I didn't read anything TOM or michel wrote with CAREFUL thorough attention. :study: Such as the global warming article and the heisenberg theory...among the other articles. During that time of skepticism, I went into a downfall point in my life. I was seeing so much negative influence :evil: around me that I concluded there was no chance for us as humans. (look at the post on tom's freedom forum's about Social Programming destroying free will. I never got a reply until I changed my name to 'AndreJ', a person who did..I now doubt that I even wrote that but I clearly remember starting it off with the EXACT same lines and had the same EXACT thought...might of been a connection?) I was rolling down a hill and hit a rock at the bottom...pretty hard. : I went through A LOT of negative stuff at that time , and had nothing but negative influences {:drunk:} around me who didn't know better, and never had such ideas as presented in TFOC & TP. They couldn't begin to comprehend such messages as I once had a friend who claimed there was no freedom of choice. He said freedom is 'concrete' and had some delusion that since everything has it's opposite, the opposite of choice would be no choice. But that would contradict everything we do...it made no sense and you would have to be there to see how he presented an argument he clearly didn't think about. I saw and learned a lot from all the ignorant stuff I did, and from all the negative events I went through at the time. I was also pretty hard on myself for it(still am), and when I see others make the same mistakes that I hate(d) myself for making...I get out of control and blindly criticize them as if I were better or any different. Which I clearly am NOT. I am on the same level as everyone here...I too lack discipline and motivation. I succumb to the overwhelming influences of this system, oh too easily. But I want so much for this planet and the people on it to do better and to survive through some of the struggles we're currently going through and the events we're about to go through...I wish the majority would realize how primitive we're living...in so many ways such as not accepting such differences we have(racism is still kicking strong)...I can't help but to vibrate a disturbance when I see not much progress is done by passively observing while knowing what could be done, wasting time trying to prove the book as a true event that occured, criticizing tom & michel of their message(as I have done to you) and talking about what should and could be done rather than actually doing something about it.

But I have realized that such a drastic change would currently be impossible. It might be better that we bid time for better results and make a PLAN about how we can effectively influence a change among the mass. Since as some stated it was only meant for a certain percentage to read & do something about, the small percentage that they knew could help...should eventually at least INFLUENCE an energy strong enough for the younger generations to come to help push forward action... taking action now is just jumping too far ahead, but I believe it is possible to influence strongly enough for the younger generations to slowly help change our planet. Hopefuly before we destroy ourselves and the beautiful planet with it. :cry:
Essene
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Post: # 9314Post Essene »

It is good to see that you self examined yourself and admitted that you might of been wrong, rather than take the defensive and make an argument you have chosen to grow and you are a better person for it.

The unexamined life is not worth living. Socrates

Well done.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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shezmear
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Post: # 9315Post shezmear »

AaronNZM, cool... Hey no problem.... :-)

I read your post and I get it, some times I find it helps if you write a copy first of what you are about to say to someone then come back in 24 hours and look at it again, by writing it , you get it out, then you can come back and look at it and see what impact it is going to have on the person reading it and if what you are saying is going to get through to them.

To clarify what I said…

I’m not putting down the book, I’m saying that " I think" that there are some ways it could have been deliver better and sustained better and it’s not so much about if it is true, if it is presented with out an awareness of the environment it is going into then it does not matter if it is true, because the people in the environment will just throw it out, or not read it at all.

Example, in the process of reaching the point were they say it is true they have to cover various point’s, proof is usually the last part of reaching that point "For some", were they go hey, we need to act on this, for others they seek ways to disprove it because they have so much invested in it not being true and to realize it is true is to make a huge paradigm shift in their life and basically realize they are wrong and for most that is just to great a leap.

On earth, proof is a big thing, now I guess they thiaoouba in the infinite wisdom and millions of years of experience found that maybe at some point they provided people with truth, and it changes nothing, so out of the experiments they decided that proof or no proof it changes nothing.I recon if you sat down with Thao that is the answer you would get.

I’m saying as a “Local”, living on this planet, there needs to be more, because it’s not working, and if you follow the book publicly without any proof, it’s very easy to go from there to being a believer and then labeled as a cult and from there your into fanaticism.

And Frankly I can’t see the problem with providing proof to those that want to support the book, because you may be able to convince you’re self with out proof, but try and talk to someone who is new to the information, it is really hard.

On some level I get the book I think it`s on a deeper level, at least this is what my feelings tell me, but what I’m not o.k with is I know there are people that could benefit from the information if it could be more substantiated, I guess to narrow it down that is my issue, I get it, but am frustrated with that shear lack of evidence to help convince others who aren’t so quick on the uptake.

And I feel it imperative to state that Michel was taken to the planert”physically” because if he had not he never would have believed and had the necessary motivation to do what he did, he said that him self.

So he has this enormous direct experience to draw from, he has all the proof he needs. What we get, is a book and the guy that writes the book disappears and that’s it, and were supposed to change the world, and the frustrating part is who knows what sort of change each of us is capable of if given the necessary ingredients? Yet we are unsupported, so we do nothing…

In fact I think from memory this was one of Michel’s bones of contention with the people of thiaoouba, the sheer fact that he did not hear from them once he had completed his book apart from one time, again who knows what he would be doing if he had received more support, in fact I doubt very much he would have retreated to the level that he has.

With TP you’re either a believer or you not…I think there in lies the problem…

And if you consider this, how many people do you listen who make statements about things with out proof? Think about how you judge things? People, events.

911 for example, the yanks did it to them selves….yet many people think it is still some crazy people in the middle east, with out the necessary proof and reasoning, I to would believe that the crazy people in the middle east did it, but they didn’t.

Again I had enough proof and reason, so the next question is what is proof for me? it would be a physical visitation in the flesh, a real encounter, publicly would do it for me and I think a lot of others, at least then you would have something to stand on and say, you know this is real, not just what I want to believe, and it’s so based in reality we need to act,Not just talk about and wonder...

In all I don’t think the TP thing has finished, maybe it just begun….
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
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