ZEITGEIST

General discussion about the two books by Michel Desmarquet. Please ONLY post questions that do not fit in any of the available specialized forums.

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Matt
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Post: # 9347Post Matt »

Essene wrote:Didn't constantine do this? Admittedly Christianity was around and he just tweaked it. Also religions are always created by politic minds, every religion is made after a great person for example Jesus has come. Jesus wasn't a christian and Buddha wasn't a buddhist...
What about Confucianism, Taoism, and all the other religions? There are thousands of them with a wide range of believers. Politicians only step in when it is in their best interests to do so, such as Bush rallying Christians to vote.

Take L. Ron Hubbard for example, founder of Scientology. He is famously quoted for saying, "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion." There is no political motivation in this sentiment what-so ever. Religious leaders are the people who take the reigns and they are the ones who twist and mislead their followers.

Even in Thiaoouba Prophecy, Thao specifically states that it was the Roman Catholic Church who made the edits, not any political body:

"The only times this distortion was purposely done, and for very specific
reasons, as I have said, was by the Roman Church during the councils of Nicein
AD 325, Constantinople in AD 381, Ephese in AD 431 and Chalcedoine in AD
451."

Zeitgeist the Movie is the exact kind of misinformation that TP tries to dispel, and you people blindly following it without doing your own research and thoroughly and logically contemplating the subject matter is the problem with society today!

Please, use your noggins. If you still disagree with me after that, then at least you can be sure of your conclusions rather than blindly accepting them from a movie you watched.
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soulrider
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Post: # 9352Post soulrider »

Matt wrote:
Zeitgeist the Movie is the exact kind of misinformation that TP tries to dispel, and you people blindly following it without doing your own research and thoroughly and logically contemplating the subject matter is the problem with society today!

Please, use your noggins. If you still disagree with me after that, then at least you can be sure of your conclusions rather than blindly accepting them from a movie you watched.
woah-nelly, ease up big fella... Where was I or others "blindly following it"? I enjoyed watching it, but I also like watching Family Guy and The Goodies...

I can't say I agree with your comment of religions starting out of the search for truth... no way a clurgy looks after the people and not themselves...
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Matt
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Post: # 9353Post Matt »

soulrider wrote: woah-nelly, ease up big fella...
Yeah, sorry if that came out harsh but I'm just trying to get a point across, and I don't mean anything I said in a condescending way. Just that I find some of the responses in this thread deeply saddening with all the conspiracy theories.
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soulrider
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Post: # 9354Post soulrider »

Matt wrote:
soulrider wrote: woah-nelly, ease up big fella...
Yeah, sorry if that came out harsh but I'm just trying to get a point across, and I don't mean anything I said in a condescending way. Just that I find some of the responses in this thread deeply saddening with all the conspiracy theories.
All good buddy - I like seeing people with passion... :wink: 8)


wish the admin around here would lift some of the swearwords though - sometimes we just need to yell faarrrrrkkk! :twisted:
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TempUser
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Post: # 9358Post TempUser »

Matt wrote: Take L. Ron Hubbard for example, founder of Scientology. He is famously quoted for saying, "The way to make a million dollars is to start a religion." There is no political motivation in this sentiment what-so ever. Religious leaders are the people who take the reigns and they are the ones who twist and mislead their followers.

Even in Thiaoouba Prophecy, Thao specifically states that it was the Roman Catholic Church who made the edits, not any political body:

"The only times this distortion was purposely done, and for very specific
reasons, as I have said, was by the Roman Church during the councils of Nicein
AD 325, Constantinople in AD 381, Ephese in AD 431 and Chalcedoine in AD
451."

Zeitgeist the Movie is the exact kind of misinformation that TP tries to dispel, and you people blindly following it without doing your own research and thoroughly and logically contemplating the subject matter is the problem with society today!

Please, use your noggins. If you still disagree with me after that, then at least you can be sure of your conclusions rather than blindly accepting them from a movie you watched.

I understand what you are saying.
It's what I was trying to say but not as critically.
Did you actually carefully read my post?
So have you, yourself, researched anything in the movie before trying to disprove the whole thing as false & misinforming?

Somehow I think you mis-interpreted the quote. It sounds like you took it too literal.
I believe the way the word is used in that quote is actually intended in a different way than that of the usual use. I think they were Comparing the minds of the religious creaters to one of a political person? I took out the other definitions in this because I think it might be how they were using it. po·lit·i·cal (pə-lĭt'ĭ-kəl) Pronunciation Key
adj.

2. Relating to, involving, or characteristic of politics or politicians: "Calling a meeting is a political act in itself" (Daniel Goleman).
5. Having or influenced by partisan interests: The court should never become a political institution.
6. Based on or motivated by partisan or self-serving objectives: a purely political decision.

Although I don't actually believe any of it to be true. I think some of it is still valuable in a way that in can inspire people to open their eyes. Some of it does make sense if you pay attention to how they are saying it. Have you watched the whole movie with careful attention? Not that I actually have...The part about money being loaned to our governments by banks makes seems pretty possible. Although I can't think of any resource out there that proves it. Wasn't it even mentioned in Thiaoouba Prophecy? I would research if such information would actually be revealed, had it not been filtered out of most available resources. So I doubt it would be easy to prove any of what is being said. You would have to carefully research... because if such a subject with detailed research were to actually get leaked to the mass with substantial proof it could really cripple the authority system and the people that benefits so much from the fact that it's kept a secret. I'm sure they would pay a lot of money to have such information hidden. But anyways Please read my post carefully because it appears you haven't used your noggin to see what I was stating just as I haven't used mine to research much of what is said in the video....if you go to the website for the movie you will find a statement which says that they DON'T claim anything in the video as a truth, but that they want us viewers to find out for ourselves....by researching . Maybe this whole video is just misinformation. But, It definately presents an opportunity in getting people to criticize the generally un-criticized system that controls the mass with great influence...religiously, politically, and materialistically.

Anyways here's the statement from their [url = http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/statement.htm] web-site[/url]
Zeitgeist was created as a non-profit filmiac expression to inspire people to start looking at the world
from a more critical perspective and to understand that very often things are not what the
population at large think they are. The information in Zeitgeist was established over a year long period
of research and the current Source page on this site lists the basic sources used / referenced.
Soon, an Interactive Transcript will be online with detailed footnotes and links so exact sources
and further research can be relayed.

Now, it's important to point out that there is a tendency to simply disbelieve things that are
counter to our understanding, without the necessary research performed.
For example, some information contained in Part 1 and Part 3, specifically, is not obtained
by simple keyword searches on the Internet. You have to dig deeper. For instance,
very often people who look up "Horus" or "The Federal Reserve" on the Internet
draw their conclusions from very general or biased sources. Online encyclopedias or text book
Encyclopedias often do not contain the information contained in Zeitgeist. However, if one takes
the time to read the sources provided, they will find that what is being presented is
based on documented evidence. Any corrections, clarifications & further points regarding the film
are found on the Clarifications page.

That being said, It is my hope that people will not take what is said
in the film as the truth, but find out for themselves, for truth is not told, it is realized.

Thank You
It doesn't matter how many books you have read, how many lectures you have heard - What matters is what you actually UNDERSTAND from them today about the universe and your particular role in it" -Thomas J. Chalko
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Matt
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Post: # 9360Post Matt »

Hey Aaron, I don't recall reader your earlier reply specifically - I mostly skimmed over the responses looking at the general consensus. I apologize, I didn't mean to accuse everyone here.

To answer your question, I haven't really watched the movie myself. When I saw it, I closed the window after 20 minutes as it was killing me with a lot of illogical statements. That's not to say everything in the movie is incorrect either, just that a lot of it is cherry-picked material that from my knowledge is speculative, rather than conclusive.

My brother, on the other hand, watched the whole movie and was moved by it. Instead of being inspired how ever, it made him look at religions and the people who believe in them as disgusting when that is not the case. I recall us discussing over the topic of the Jesus and Horus parallels. Please thoroughly read the following article if you are convinced that the story of Jesus is based on the Egyptian mythology of Horus:

http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html


Edit: Just rewatching the part of the Egyptian Mythology section in Zeitgeist made my head spin. It claims the word Hour and Horizon come from the name of the Egyptian god Horus. I seriously doubt the English language's origin lies in Egypt or even remotely within their time period(English started forming around 500AD, and made a major revision in 1600AD during the Elizabethan Period, while Egypt fell in 400BC). They also mention Horus as the god of the sun, but he is one of 3 Gods of the sun corresponding to the different times of the day. Horus does, in fact, correspond to the rising sun. Set is not the god of Darkness, but the God of the desert and storms. While Set and Horus were rivals, it had nothing to correspond to the sun setting and rising.

Here is a complete article on the god Set:

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/set.htm

And Horus:

http://touregypt.net/godsofegypt/horus.htm


Once again I closed the movie after watching that huge bungle on Egypt religion.
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Robanan
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Post: # 9367Post Robanan »

Yes, well actually I found that part about parallels between egyptian mythology and christianity quite, how to say... entertaining. They use those arguments to make the conclusion that the very existence of the christ was a fabricated myth. I as one who firmly belives that the christ existed and walked our earth in his days, can only look back at the arguments against this belief and take them with a pinch of salt.

But there's also interesting points presented in the movie that can be taken more seriously by a dedicated researcher. For example many of the quotes from the christ that have made it through in the bible, give evidence that the man speaking has very good knowlede of astrology of the time, and also had great knowledge of space.
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soulrider
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Post: # 9382Post soulrider »

Matt wrote: Here is a complete article on the god Set:

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/set.htm

And Horus:

http://touregypt.net/godsofegypt/horus.htm


Once again I closed the movie after watching that huge bungle on Egypt religion.
Ok, now you've completely lost me Matt... So you HAVEN'T watched the entire film? You're basing arguments on an Egyptian Travel site? C’mon bloke, get it together... I too don't agree with the religion garbage in part 1 [part 1 of 3 mind you], but FFS, WATCH the film before commenting... :roll:

I've had a personal interest in Egypt/Hieroglyphics for over 20 years, and the site you're mentioning is here-say. Dig DEEPER!... :pharaoh:

You also don't seem to have the decency to read ALL the posts, so I now leave your comments to you and you alone... :drunk: :listen music:
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Matt
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Post: # 9383Post Matt »

Meh. I can't confirm everything on those sites but my notes from my classes do match most of their statements. Besides, I don't need to watch the entire film to make a rebuttal to one of their "facts" unless at the very end they come out and say "We're joking! Here's the truth..."

If people find certain things in this film compelling, they should at least do some research instead of having faith and believing (After all, wasn't that what Thiaoouba Prophecy is all about? Knowing, instead of believing?). And if there is some truth to it, I hope they come on here and help us know instead of leaving us to believe also.
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soulrider
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Post: # 9384Post soulrider »

Matt, I'm sorry to say, I strongly disagree - you match those sites with stuff you learned at "school" - are you still in school perhaps? How sure are you about what's going on in the world?

I have and do research ... I think you might want to do some more. Watch the film again if you havent already, then comment.

Here's a tip for you, watch the Life of Brian, that's as close to the reality of religion you'll ever get...
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Teda
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Post: # 9385Post Teda »

'woah-nelly, ease up big fella... '
Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you.

- Maori proverb
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soulrider
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Post: # 9386Post soulrider »

Teda wrote:'woah-nelly, ease up big fella... '
touché


I stand by my "aggressive" comment :wink:
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Matt
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Post: # 9389Post Matt »

soulrider wrote:Matt, I'm sorry to say, I strongly disagree. You match those sites with stuff you learned at "school". Are you still in school perhaps? How sure are you about whats really going on in the world?

I have and do research ... I think you might need to do some more. Watch the film again if you haven't already, then comment.

Here's a tip for you, watch the Life of Brian, that's as close to the reality of religion you'll ever get...
Hey man, no need to get so uptight. I'm in college majoring in history, it's not like I'm pulling this stuff out of nowhere. Let me clarify, as I can tell you probably took my comment the other way around - I don't have a lot of notes specifically on the Egyptian gods but what I do have written down, most of them match the statements on the website. Since I don't have a lot of details they're only the big facts and not all the little stuff mentioned on the site.

If you think the sources I used aren't credible, you could find a credible source on the subject instead of spending time typing up angry responses. Don't tell me I'm wrong - PROVE IT. I don't think I'm always right, but until someone proves me otherwise I will only believe that I am.
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shezmear
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Post: # 9396Post shezmear »

I for one found the *** part rather funny :lol:, caught me a bit of gard, someone should edit it though....abuseing each other is not going to get us anywere....
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Essene
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Post: # 9404Post Essene »

Please lets try keep this board clean from abuse, it's depressing to see the content of some of these posts.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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