ZEITGEIST

[Matt]

I'm being honest. If there's any way to turn this thread around it's either A) everyone walks away and ignores the thread which is unproductive or B) Survivor and everyone else gets their opinions out with explanations leading to productive discussion.

Makes sense to me, any way.

[Rezo]

Sorry survivor, I guess it was when you said 'religious', the 'mentally weak' part, I kinda saw it as kind of a strong wording, as in an all-inclusive phrase. The main thing for me though was when you said, 'guess you will never know who is trying to deceive you', w/the underlines and bold, so I took it as if you may have implied, from 'maybe the movie isn't correct', to 'I'm stubbornly naive to the religion plot and would rather believe religion, over this movie.' I was kinda still researching but I should've given you time to ask you what you meant by that, earlier.

I guess I was a little angry about that and came to think it was what you meant, since my view is that religion misrepresents the characters who are supposed to be its founders, who actually I don't think wanted followers to be sheep. Forgive me if I jumped to conclusions.

I didnt intend to force any ideas either myself, sorry if I did [because I go on for a while sometimes]. This is obviously a big topic. Im always open to contrary evidence, i.e. elaborations from the film. I actually would be very interested to know about those, even though I don't necessarily agree w/it.

Anyway I gotta go right now, Ill talk later.

[survivor]

I'm being honest. If there's any way to turn this thread around it's either A) everyone walks away and ignores the thread which is unproductive or B) Survivor and everyone else gets their opinions out with explanations leading to productive discussion.

Makes sense to me, any way.

Matt, I can see that, 100's facts wouldn't satisfy you. You can take what zeigeist offers to you or take the information the bible gives to you or sit on the fence or you can do your own research.

For me (personally), pre TP and post TP (but not during) my intuitional thought is that; Jesus Christ as told in the bible is a MYTH. I allowed myself to get sucked in to the fabricated journey of Michel Desmarquet, I didn't listen to my intuition, But I think it was meant to be this way. Reading TP I've learn't many things which can also be learned elsewhere.



Matt, can you offer any information without asking everyone else to give you proof? I'm yet to see any proof from you, do you have any?

[Matt]

Proof of... Jesus, or Thiaoouba Prophecy being non-fictional? That Zeitgeist is the truth?

[Zark]

Jesus Christ as told in the bible is a MYTH. I allowed myself to get sucked in to the fabricated journey of Michel Desmarquet, I didn't listen to my intuition, But I think it was meant to be this way. Reading TP I've learn't many things which can also be learned elsewhere.

I am by my nature someone who doesn't trust others very easily. When I was young I knew some people who lied a lot and did a lit of harm to the people around them.. I suppose that is why I don't trust people. So my view of the bible and religion was "agnostic".. a fence sitter .. I will believe it when I see it. I am still very much inclined towards agnosticism.

If you decide to trust the things Yeshua, Mohammad, or Moses, or the Apostles said then that is your choice. In the end we will always end up putting your trust in something, we trust our eyes and our ears to transmit information accurately. We generally trust our science text books to also transmit information accurately.

Was the information in the gospel transmitted accurately? I think so - in as far as once can expect of a human being. For instance Luke says he gathered together the testimony of witnesses when compiling his book. He never claims that god dictated the book to him. I find it almost dishonest when Christians claim that God wrote everything that is in the bible (although its isn't actual dishonesty but rather ignorance). If anyone wants proof that it isn't so all you have to do is compare the same events as described by the different authors of the gospels. It becomes all too clear that the books are written from recollection and have the little differences one would expect when asking a group of witnesses for their account.

Would the early Catholic church have tampered with the gospels? It would take incredible gall to do so.. Christians were explicitly warned in very strong terms to never add anything to, or remove anything from Yeshua's message (at the end of the book of Revelations). They were warned that if they added anything then plagues would likewise be added to them. Well, Europe was decimated by plagues...

One thing the Catholic Church did do was that they decided any decree from the pope took precedence over whatever Yeshua had to say. Why? Well for one because the pope could not be in error! I find that incredibly arrogant. It is like the little pebble who thinks he is greater than the boulder.

[Zark]

As you can see I have a lot of criticism for the various forms of Christianity that are around. So why do I consider myself a Christian? Because I have seen astounding things with my own eyes..If you saw the things you read about in the bible with your own eyes of course you wouldn't go around calling it a myth. But since you haven't seen these things then how can I blame you? I had exactly the same attitude not so long ago.

I have had many dreams where people who care very much about my welfare would tell me things. Occasionally I was warned of something before it happened. I am not unique here though.. I know that very many people experience this at some point in their lives. Although few would talk freely about it for fear of ridicule.

I asked a fellow office worker if he had ever dreamed of something before it happened. He answered yes. He is the only person at work that I have asked and he said yes. That is a 100% hit rate. You can prove amazing things when the sample size is small enough . Well I recently read a great book called "Journey to Infinity" by Buttlar, Johannes V.. After reading this it seemed that visions of the future are common. People even dream of inane things like that their boss is going to spill a bottle of ink today.. and then it really happens.

It isn't always the future event that is important, sometimes the message seems IMHO to be that there is a spiritual side to life that shouldn't be ignored. And a simple dream of seeing the ink spill everywhere before it actually happens is enough to remind us of this

[shezmear]

I think if we are sitting around trying to proof each wrong, then it shows how little we really "KNOW"
I also think if what we think leads us to argue with each other then, the fact that we are arguing with each other is a greater loss then the fact that some believes in something which appears to be false…

Does anyone really care if Jesus is real, or was , or was not, really?

I mean, does it change anything?

I mean the fundamental thing in TP which is something you can take and apply to your life today is, you choose life, you get Karma, self created or visited apon you, you deal with it, and hopefully find happiness in your life and try not to leave a trail of unhappiness in your path (master the art of living) and away you go…the real danger is in the way we live quote/unquote, that is if we are good to each, Christ, believe what ever you like….it’s all good, and I guess allow others to believe what ever they like, Tom would say this is dangerous , but then again, Tom will write you off if you don’t believe what he believes…so how is that a good thing?, what about compassion?untiy?just geting along 101…

I think it matters little if Jesus is real, if it divides us....then we kind of miss the point of life it self….

I remember their was a time when I was searching out “spiritual experiences”, and then I realized, I’m having one, Everyday, I am one…I’m looking for paradise and I’m in it….

[Eon]

Yeah people, take it easy, it is just a movie anyway...

[Essene]

Unless we act upon our beliefs then none of us are going to know for sure until the day we die....

I agree that the very act of living is itself a spiritual experience, when living consciously.

[Robanan]

Yes, well actually I found that part about parallels between egyptian mythology and christianity quite, how to say... entertaining. They use those arguments to make the conclusion that the very existence of the christ was a fabricated myth.

Entertaining to you? This is simply your way of saying you don't need to prove it's fabricated? You're right, Jesus is a fabricated myth (for mine).

I as one who firmly belives that the christ existed and walked our earth in his days, can only look back at the arguments against this belief and take them with a pinch of salt.

..how so? Where is your saviour now? He won't be coming back, even the author of TP knows this as fact.

But there's also interesting points presented in the movie that can be taken more seriously by a dedicated researcher. For example many of the quotes from the christ that have made it through in the bible, give evidence that the man speaking has very good knowlede of astrology of the time, and also had great knowledge of space.

That's right, it's not about Jesus, But the author who has knowledge.

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Zeitgeist the Movie shows you the fabrication, the (process) invention of religions. 'Jesus Christ' the greatest story ever told in the bible and not an ounce of proof that he exsisted.(my opinion)

Many have researched and those who study occults, have also researched and came to the same conclusion as what Zeitgeist the Movie has shown to you. Do you believe in coincidence?

If to listen to TP The Christ's body was born of no virgin, there was not a star announcing it's coming, and loads of other claims made in the movie zeitgeist fall apart when put side by side with the movie zeitgeist. Zeitgeist movie is a result of research, with a specific context and a specific aim, therefore very carefully composed to meet it's conclusions perfectly. Same is TP also very very carefully composed... so what's the difference? The difference is in the context of the arguments. TP arguments, that there's no point in believing in anything including itself, but Zeitgeist implies you to belive in it and disregard religions in it's entirety, the fallacies in Zetigeist's egyptology arguments have already been pointed out by other researchers too.

Entertaining because movies like zeitgeist won't point people to learn how to not to believe and search for themselves. They simply make people belive in other things. Therefore no matter how many of these movies come out people will still belive in what they want to belive. I found that Ironic. A whole big effort so futile it makes me think someone is materially intrested into manipulating people's beliefs as much as religions do today.

[shezmear]

I`m not sure TP has this theme in it, "that there's no point in believing in anything including itself" unless I miss read it, I have not read it in a while, TFOC make have a something similar in it, but I never got that from TP, are you sure?

[Matt]

Actually believing in something is sort of a paradox, considering you can never truly KNOW something without perfect knowledge. So, in a sense, every conclusion and hypothesis you make is a belief in itself.

I believe the message TP was getting across is to never believe in something in the sense that you could not come to the same conclusion yourself on your own terms. Ie. You hear someone tell you that there is a God in the clouds judging your every move, so you take it as truth. Instead, you should use your own personal pool of knowledge to come up with your own theories on life. The key to understanding is being open-minded and neutral when judging possibilities dealing with reality; always being ready to accept new information, even if it is contrary to your past conclusions and hypotheses.

[shezmear]

Ya, it’s a funny thing, it’s like to keep a level mind one needs to accept what one does not know, just as much as what one thinks one knows or believes..,

I run into this a lot in my own self analysis, and I have to accept that I have little or no direct experience to support my beliefs in a argument, hence I don’t really try and prove anything to anyone anymore, I can only go on what I feel to be true, these feelings which originate within my “self” I believe them to be accurate, but I could be wrong, these feelings have lead me to considered the immortally of consciousness with almost complete certainty as a reason why I feel and think the way I do.

This is something intriguing about the self, the thing that according to Jesus(if he actually said it) if you discover it, it allows you to understand more about the nature of the universe, I don’t fully understand it, because it is so utterly like sitting in a room full of mirrors but lately I have been feeling like some how some way, I understand, what I need to understand, and everything I seek, or the resolution to desire is kind of all in me, like I carry the thing which is the mystery, and it has given me some sence of peace, I can’t articulate it, but I just know that, my mind is immortal and that “me” is like or part of me is like has a understanding of this thing called life….again hard to prove, but I feel so “serton about it” I don’t really care to…

More on the TP thing

I was just watching a show last night on TV and it said how one of the messages that were written in the Jewish bible was a very clear command that went something to the effect of “Don’t mix with other races, your different” and I thought of the people of thiaoouba, this message supposedly came from GOD…and at that moment I thought hummmm,

[Teda]

This is something intriguing about the self, the thing that according to Jesus(if he actually said it) if you discover it, it allows you to understand more about the nature of the universe, I don’t fully understand it, because it is so utterly like sitting in a room full of mirrors but lately I have been feeling like some how some way, I understand, what I need to understand, and everything I seek, or the resolution to desire is kind of all in me, like I carry the thing which is the mystery, and it has given me some sence of peace, I can’t articulate it, but I just know that, my mind is immortal and that “me” is like or part of me is like has a understanding of this thing called life….again hard to prove, but I feel so “serton about it” I don’t really care to…

I so understand where you are coming from Shezmear. Perhaps you might find this book interesting: http://metaperl.freeshell.org/biotrophi ... ol/btp.pdf
It covers most of the topics in this forum, only that you might see the cohesive connection between what you have understood so far. Let me know what you think.

[Essene]

Ya, it’s a funny thing, it’s like to keep a level mind one needs to accept what one does not know, just as much as what one thinks one knows or believes..,

I run into this a lot in my own self analysis, and I have to accept that I have little or no direct experience to support my beliefs in a argument, hence I don’t really try and prove anything to anyone anymore, I can only go on what I feel to be true, these feelings which originate within my “self” I believe them to be accurate, but I could be wrong, these feelings have lead me to considered the immortally of consciousness with almost complete certainty as a reason why I feel and think the way I do.

This is something intriguing about the self, the thing that according to Jesus(if he actually said it) if you discover it, it allows you to understand more about the nature of the universe, I don’t fully understand it, because it is so utterly like sitting in a room full of mirrors but lately I have been feeling like some how some way, I understand, what I need to understand, and everything I seek, or the resolution to desire is kind of all in me, like I carry the thing which is the mystery, and it has given me some sence of peace, I can’t articulate it, but I just know that, my mind is immortal and that “me” is like or part of me is like has a understanding of this thing called life….again hard to prove, but I feel so “serton about it” I don’t really care to…

More on the TP thing

I was just watching a show last night on TV and it said how one of the messages that were written in the Jewish bible was a very clear command that went something to the effect of “Don’t mix with other races, your different” and I thought of the people of thiaoouba, this message supposedly came from GOD…and at that moment I thought hummmm,

I would just like to be helpful and say that sence should of been sense and serton should of been certain. You may have just had a mental blank as I do often whilst writing and simply didn't care but just in case you didn't know for whatever reason you do now. I hope you don't take it as if I'm insulting you :0 which I'm sure you won't .

Also I haven't understood what you thought at the end. Do you mean that you think there might be a connection to TP as according to TP the Jewish were different and you believe this to back up TP?