Are We Missing the Point?

[Lachie]

I had a strange thought... we are focusing on a lot of the aspects of the Book that seem unimportant, but pique the curiosity of each of us (myself included). While we do focus on materialism a lot, which is great, we don't really focus on the structure of the book, why things were shown the way they were shown and in the order they were shown... in other words, are we reading between the lines enough?

I remember Tom writing once that the most important issues were first and the least important issues were last - that Michel had written the book with the order of things as a priority. I dont fully understand this or the reason behind it.

There are enough twisted words and odd turns of phrase to convey meaning to people who read between the lines, while still appearing as a regular novel to unintelligent people. Let's be honest - most intelligent people use things like double-entendrés and hidden meanings for those people who are smart enough to pick them up. Its like an intellectual search for equals, a test to find someone who can discuss things on an even level with the author.

However, this could be Michel's twisted English rather than any kind of meaning inserted by Thao. Does anyone know how much influence she had over Michel's mind while he was writing it?

THanks,

lachie

[Vesko]

I very much welcome the issue you have put forth. It's good to doubt and self-check, not take things as gospel and be ready to correct our approach. I think that the book is simply written and I, as you, think that there is hidden meaning here and there, that is why I am trying to theorize and overinterpret sometimes. I have so far found that Michel's book is correct where we should not expect it to be. An example that currently comes to mind is what Meedan mentioned some time ago in the forum regarding this quote from Page 50 of the online edition of the Book:

‘All the others: the physiological, the psychotypical, the astral, and so on. Your astropsychic body was separated from the others by a telepathic system originating in my brain which, acts in this case, like a transmitter. A direct correlation is established between my astropsychic body and yours.

The bolding is mine. I have wondered, for quite some time, like Meedan, why "brain"? Isn't that more likely to be a very insignificant mistake of the author, and the right word to be "mind"? But then, in one of the "Thiaoouba Truth" interviews, Michel explicitly says it's not mind, but brain.
Michel and Tom say that the layout of the book dictate what we must do first? Then, it would mean we have to learn astral travel first, and next study our history through the psychosphere, before everything else.

[Meedan]

Michel and Tom say that the layout of the book dictate what we must do first? Then, it would mean we have to learn astral travel first, and next study our history through the psychosphere, before everything else.

I know you are just pointing out the layout, but I don't think that was the message they were trying to convey. We should always be simply looking to develop ourselves, and learn how to avoid suffering by acting in a manner compliant with the purpose. I don't think they would have wanted to tell us "Learn this skill, then learn that skill...". We are in these bodies for a reason, it is an escape mechanism (like drugs, suicide) to want to constantly leave your body. So they wouldn't want anyone to get the impression that it is ok to use astral projection as an escape from their own life. This makes me doubt that they would want to give the message 'learn astral projection'.
There is more than enough to learn from observing the world as it is today, there is no need to be constantly trying to use the psychosphere. For this reason, I also don't think they would want to give us that message.

So I think instead of chronological 'layout', Michel and Tom meant the amount of information and content given to each issue. What they talk about the most will be the most important issue.

I think the message that material technology without spiritual development is leading us to catastrophe is the main message. Anything else would be doing our homework for us. Civilisations at our level of spiritual development normally have very little technology. Unfortunately, we've found and developed some matches, and we're playing with them.

[Vesko]

Michel and Tom say that the layout of the book dictate what we must do first? Then, it would mean we have to learn astral travel first, and next study our history through the psychosphere, before everything else.

I know you are just pointing out the layout, but I don't think that was the message they were trying to convey.

My sentence you have quoted ends with a question mark. I didn't use proper grammar though. Sorry for confusing you. I don't know this, Lachie does.

We should always be simply looking to develop ourselves, and learn how to avoid suffering by acting in a manner compliant with the purpose.

Very well said!

I don't think they would have wanted to tell us "Learn this skill, then learn that skill...".

Exactly! I would add that they would want us to learn any skill that helps each of us to advance from his/her current stage of development.

We are in these bodies for a reason, it is an escape mechanism (like drugs, suicide) to want to constantly leave your body. So they wouldn't want anyone to get the impression that it is ok to use astral projection as an escape from their own life. This makes me doubt that they would want to give the message 'learn astral projection'.

They are clearly giving this message, but it is a submessage . They are telling us -- look, there's so much more you do not know, and they are ways to expand your perception and learn things effectively that we bet you didn't even imagine! But we do not force you to learn that, perhaps you know better and will discover something else is better for you!
Yes, I agree that wanting to constantly leave your body would be an escape mechanism. Astral travel is only a tool -- as all tools it can be used for good or bad. In extremes it can be downright dangerous, but it is very hard to go to extremes with it because it is difficult enough to begin with (not that much going out as staying out), unless you take drugs, which would make some things easier but most things even more difficult . Don't forget also, that astral traveling is not like normal travelling; if we have bad thoughts or are distracted during the experience, it degrades quickly and/or cancels. Of course, even for short periods, it can still cause severe psychological damage or at least waste time, so again, it's just a tool. In Michel's case, it has helped not waste time while in the ship. Similarly, we can also use it to accelerate learning.

There is more than enough to learn from observing the world as it is today, there is no need to be constantly trying to use the psychosphere. For this reason, I also don't think they would want to give us that message.

Hmmmm. I generally agree, there is more than enough to learn from observing the world as it is, but access to the psychosphere can greatly accelerate learning, and there is an entire chapter dedicated to the psychosphere in the Book, so that says something, isn't it?The problem is that this is exceedingly difficult, and requires a lot of energy, so just as in astral travel, there are natural limits to it. We should also remember that we can access the psychosphere without going out of body at all, just concentrating in the waking state. I know of one example here in my country.

So I think instead of chronological 'layout', Michel and Tom meant the amount of information and content given to each issue. What they talk about the most will be the most important issue.

Lach, did they actually mean chronology? Meedan, just like you I find it illogical to believe that Michel and Tom said that, but who knows.

I think the message that material technology without spiritual development is leading us to catastrophe is the main message. Anything else would be doing our homework for us. Civilisations at our level of spiritual development normally have very little technology. Unfortunately, we've found and developed some matches, and we're playing with them.

Agreed! This is the main message, as Michel himself has said.
Note: we still have little or no technology in comparison with the people of Mu, not to mention the Thiaooubans.

[Lachie]

That is what confused me. I clearly remember Tom saying somewhere that the most important things were presented first in the Book. That would suggest the parallel dimensions issue being paramount in the Book.

That said, I too have never understood why Tom said that. I don't think it was Michel. I have a hazy memory of it, and have tried searching the Freedom Forum for a reference but i can't find any.

I think they would like us to learn astral projection. It is a very useful tool, although it might be too advanced for many intellects on Earth it would be useful to learn. I don't believe that it is always escapism - hell, getting out of the body is no picnic

Anyway, what do you guys think about my second question - should we look for more hidden messages? Thanks Vesko for that tidbit - i suppose Thao did have a lot of control. It would be silly to assume that she would let something get published with misleading phrases in it.

Lachie

[Meedan]

I'm not sure whether they would include hidden messages or not. They would know that most people would have a hard time understanding it as it is .

I've only found three phrases that can be confusing/misleading. All emphasis is mine:

Thao says: "The Spirit was, and is, infinitely powerful - powerful beyond the comprehension of any human mind."
Infinitely powerful suggests omnipotence, and we know that the spirit cannot be omnipotent.

"Earth's parallel universe"
"...were even able to explore parallel universes"
It seems that 'universe' may not have been the right word for them to use.

A Thaora said that the great spirit exists in the 'ether'. Ether is the old hypothetical medium that was thought to fill all of space. So it is strange that they used the word ether.

[bomohwkl]

I remember Tom writing once that the most important issues were first and the least important issues were last - that Michel had written the book with the order of things as a priority.

It is important to quote exactly what Tom has said in a given context. I am afraid you might have missed the meaning of it.

If a kid want to learn calculus, do you think, you will be taught to learn calculus straight away?

In the book : Thiaoouba Prophency, there are a lot of lost science! Just keep your eyes open.

Infinitely powerful suggests omnipotence, and we know that the spirit cannot be omnipotent.

Also according to the book,
From Thiaoouba Prophecy page 53
The Spirit - the Superior Intelligence decided to create the worlds and He commanded to four superior forces...

Do you think an infinitely intelligent being would create something that is useless?

Ether is the old hypothetical medium that was thought to fill all of space. So it is strange that they used the word ether.

You fill strange because the concept of ether is over-thrown by science. Electromagnetic wave unlike acoustic wave doesn't need a medium to propagate. The book gives you hint to search the true meaning of ether which I have highlight. Currently what is thought to fill all of space is quantum vacuum fluctuation.

[Vesko]

Thao says: "The Spirit was, and is, infinitely powerful - powerful beyond the comprehension of any human mind."
Infinitely powerful suggests omnipotence, and we know that the spirit cannot be omnipotent.

I agree this is strange. A perfect counterargument to omnipotence I’ve found on Tom Chalko's The Freedom Forum (http://www.thefreedomforum.com).
Nothing comes to my mind to really justify the usage of this word except that for all ends and purposes in our Universe, the Spirit is indeed infinitely powerful. The universe has limits. But the Creator has created it, so certainly he is above those limits. Until we are in the universe, his abilities are beyond limits –- limitless or infinite, but only from our viewpoint, thus the clarification "powerful beyond the comprehension of any human mind." I am a programmer, and in my programs I’ve had to represent infinity to be returned as a result of certain computation. Of course, no computer exists that can represent true infinity, because it would need infinite storage to hold its numerical representation to operate on. That is why in programs usually a sufficiently large or small number is used, or at least a distinct one that is known not to be equal to any result that you want to interpret as normally possible. Also, perhaps the book was not translated correctly into English, because Michel originally wrote it in French. But more probably, this is one of a couple of cases where Thao was more lax in her words. The other case is on page 141 of the online edition of the Book:

"'We can create a human body, but that is done only by the great Thaori, taking infinite care ... A man of twenty or thirty years-of-age can be created by the Thaori in approximately twenty-four of your Earth hours.'"

Infinite care for 24 hours? Wait a minute! Infinite care means it would take infinite time, an endless process. Those are again the words of Thao, so probably that is the best confirmation Thao has never meant infinite. Hey Thao, if you are watching this forum, can’t you post your opinion?

"Earth's parallel universe"
"...were even able to explore parallel universes"
It seems that 'universe' may not have been the right word for them to use.

The physical dimension there is distorted, as probably all other dimensions (probably, I have no clue!). The fact remains, though, that it is a subuniverse, but it is still parallel, that is, two sets of incompatible laws are functioning at the same time. We have to ask ourselves, what word would we use instead of parallel? Thao ?

A Thaora said that the great spirit exists in the 'ether'. Ether is the old hypothetical medium that was thought to fill all of space. So it is strange that they used the word ether.

Bomohwkl: I agree! Meedan: in any case, what word would we use? They are fitting, mapping their knowledge to our knowledge in the best possible way, and they are reusing existing terms from ancient and more recent literature. For example, take cosmic eggs, as in page 54 of the online edition of the Book:

"At this stage, by his second force, He conceived the primary living creatures and many of the primary plants, from which later derived the sub-species. This second force we will call the ‘Ovocosmic Force’, as these creatures and plants were created by simple cosmic rays, which ended up with cosmic eggs."

It turns out that the same terms, cosmic eggs and cosmic rays were depicted in the Naacal tablets that were studied by James Churchward and findings published in "The Lost Continent of Mu." On page 8 (in both the 1926 and the 1931 editions), it is written:

Vignette 6a. Vertical dotted lines from the sun symbolize his forces which are affinitive to the earth’s life force.
Vignette 6b. Symbolizes the sun’s affinitive forces striking the earth’s life force in cosmic eggs, which are in the water, and hatching them into life.
Vignette 6c. Symbolizes the sun’s affinitive forces striking the earth’s life force in cosmic eggs, which are on the land, and hatching them into life.

Those vignettes are published on page 7 (on Amazon.com you can view only up to page 6), and represent a circle on the top with dotted lines coming from it and hitting eggs, plants, etc. on the ground.
What about the Four forces of the Universe that Thao and the Thaori speak of?
Those are the four forces as taught by the Naacals, the best minds of Mu.
Speaking of the Four forces, what do you think the cross represents? No, it does not represent the Christian cross, it represents exactly those four forces, coming from a single intersection point, indicating that they are part of the Creator and come from Him/Her. This is only a miniscule part of the legacy of Mu perpetuated to our times.
But before you think I’m straying offtopic, although this is so exciting, I must say I am mentioning the four forces because, in this book there are seven commands of the Creator that are realized by the four forces. This is where the seven days of world creation in the Bible come from. Of those seven commands, two are related to the creation of life. On page 13:

The fifth command was:
"'Let life come forth in the waters.' And the shafts of the sun [i.e., the cosmic rays in the Book] met the shafts of the earth in the mud [!] of the waters and there formed cosmic eggs (life germs) out of particles of the mud [do we have a valuable detail here?!]. Out of these cosmic eggs came forth life as commanded." (Fig. 6b.) [this is the same vignette].
The sixth command was:
"'Let life come forth upon the land.' And the shafts of the sun met the shafts of the earth in the dust [!] of the land, and out of it formed cosmic eggs; and from these cosmic eggs life came forth upon the earth as commanded." (Fig 6c.) And when all this was done, the seventh intellect said: 'Let us make man after our own fashion, and let us endown him with powers to rule this earth.'"
"Then Narayana, the Seven-headed Intellect, the Creator of all things throughout the universe, created man, and placed within his body a living, imperishable spirit, and man became like Narayana in intellectual power. Then was creation complete."

In this book, there's particular information about the creation of the woman in the 1931 edition of the book. The woman is on equal footing with the man! No more prejudice against women, and no more feminism either!
At least now I'll stop wondering through applying the Four powers of the universe like that:
............ ....................................
why the Christian religion says I am born out of mud and will become dust when I die.
Lastly, here’s the next passage that we find very familiar from the Book:

“Originally, the universe was only a soul or spirit. Everything was without life – calm, silent, soundless. Void and dark was the immensity of space. Only the Supreme Spirit, the great Self-existing Power, the Creator, the Seven-headed Serpent, moved within the abyss of darkness.
The desire came to Him to create the worlds and He created the worlds; and the desire came to Him to create the earth, with living things upon it, and He created the earth and all therein. And this is the manner of the creation of the earth, with all the living things upon it:--
The seven superlative intellects of the Seven-headed serpent gave seven commands."
…
[you can read the fifth, sixth and seventh commands above]

I think we now understand why the Thaori are seven; perhaps they map one-to-one to the intellects of the Creator??? It could be. Note also Self-Existing, this is not in the Book... have also previously posted on The Freedom of Choice Reader forum that in a sociology textbook I’ve studied, it was written that that seven is the maximum number of people to hold a close conversation.
P.S. According to Churchward, the Naacal tablets were written in the Naga-Maya language, the original language of Mu. Chuchward was taught it by a high priest in an Indian college temple that goes nameless. The latter told him that only two other high priests in India knew the language. That was around 1868. How do those races and language connect to the book? We know from the book that the Mayas and most probably the Nagas originated from Mu. According to the Book, the Polynesians (original builders of Mu) had colonies in South Asia sometime after 200,000 years ago and it was probably the Nagas (it is not explicitly stated in the book) who set up colonies in Burma and India before producing the Egyptian race (by occupying Upper/north Egypt) and later building United Egypt with the Mayas (occupying Lower/south Egypt) who in the same period have travelled a different itinerary through the Mediterranean – Greece, North Africa (teaching the Arabs) before reaching Egypt. It is interesting to note that according to contemporary encyclopedias, Nagas are just mythical serpent creatures – for more information, see my previous post in the topic "Lost Dialogue of Plato" in the Planetary History forum, or just search by yourselves. Anyway, I hope you now see why I've put a photo James Churchward in the bottom right corner of the forum logo! He should not be forgotten as he is now, but very much loved for his work!

Note: Edited on March 2, 2005 to correct inaccuracy about the Nagas.

[Meedan]

Thanks for helping me clear those up.

[Zark]

I had a strange thought... we are focusing on a lot of the aspects of the Book that seem unimportant, but pique the curiosity of each of us (myself included).

Lachie,
Thank you for pointing this out ! Yeah, I think we all need to step back and look at the big picture from time to time (as Marcus pointed out in the Little Tricks thread).. And we certainly must know what our priorities are, and perhaps even consider what the Creator, our Higher Self and the Thaori are expecting of us.

with metta
z

[Lachie]

Zark: No worries. Should we be concerned so much with what is expected of us by our teachers, than with our individual lessons that we have to learn?

I have a history of always trying to exceed my teacher's expectations, often at my own expense, and I think I've done pretty well in my life so far. Maybe sometimes its good to focus on your lessons, and then try and affect society... uhh, I mean, try and develop your inside before you try and spread the word outside.

What do you guys think?

Lachie

[Vesko]

Maybe sometimes its good to focus on your lessons, and then try and affect society... uhh, I mean, try and develop your inside before you try and spread the word outside.

Defenitely, we should all learn well before we can give much advice and even basic information to others!

[Yothu]

We should also remember that we can access the psychosphere without going out of body at all, just concentrating in the waking state. I know of one example here in my country.

And who would that be? And how does he or she do it? That would be of great interest to me

[Vesko]

I reproduce here a link (http://groups.google.com/groups?&ie=UTF ... pha&rnum=3) from Google Groups (an interface to USENET). You can search for "Vanga" to find more bits of information.

Seen in Nando Times on 12 August 1996

SOFIA, Bulgaria (Aug 11, 1996 3:41 p.m. EDT) -- "Aunt Vanga," a
blind peasant whose supposed clairvoyant powers gave her saint-like
status across this impoverished Balkan country, died Sunday at 84,
provoking an outpouring of national grief.<P>


Vangelia Gushterova meant so much to generations of Bulgarians that
the state news agency BTA flashed the news of her death of cancer in
a Sofia hospital once reserved for high government officials.<P>

"She lived not for herself but for the people. That made her a
living saint for us," said Prime Minister Zhan Videnov.<P>

Born in neighboring Macedonia in 1911, Vanga lost her sight at age
12 in a windstorm.<P>

From the time she was a teen-ager, she was a legend for what many
believed was her ability to see into the future and the past, to
make correct diagnoses or predictions and even locate missing
persons.<P>

She claimed to derive her powers from an ancient city buried under
her village in southwestern Bulgaria.<P>

BTA said more than 1 million people had consulted the seer, whose
fame stretched across the Balkans.<P>

Almost every day, thousands of sick and desperate people would line
up outside Vanga's modest house in Rupite, a village 100 miles south
of the capital, Sofia.<P>

Many of Bulgaria's most respected intellectuals and notable
politicians sought Vanga's advice, usually uttered in a trance.
Almost all of her predictions related to people's private lives.<P>

Petar Stoyanov, the main anti-Communist presidential candidate,
visited Vanga at the start of his campaign. He and his main rival in
the October elections, Socialist Georgi Pirinski, sent condolences
to Vanga's relatives Sunday.<P>

During the communist era, many senior politicians, including
longtime ruler Todor Zhivkov, are said to have consulted Vanga
before key decisions. Communism collapsed in Bulgaria in 1989.<P>

Vanga was told four years ago that she was terminally ill with
breast cancer. She refused an operation and went on receiving people
until last month, when relatives moved her to hospital in Sofia.<P>

Funeral plans were unknown, but Vanga has said she wanted to be
buried in Rupite.

Her powers were not "supposed", as the article says, and she was not a charlatan. In a Bulgarian book I have about her, she is reported to have said that upon the approaching of a person, she started seeing all kinds of images related to that person -- from the past, the present and the future, and often had to ask the person what it is that interested him/her, as the information was too much. I reason that probably because she received her ability during/immediately after the abovementioned windstorm, she lacked the control to suppress the ability in order to live a more normal life, and she was continually exhausted, which finally resulted in her death.

She was not unlike Edgar Cayce in the extent of her ability.

Several years ago (1998, I think), I read online about a man called Doug or Douglas (unfortunately, I don't remember at all the family name) who had a daughter in very poor health, and in a disciplined and apparently heroic attempt to alleviate the situation, he started practicing meditation and yoga, those two things I think I remember. I think it was several years after that he got a similar ability. I just did a quick search and can't find anything now, though. But there must be something still floating around about this man.