a few things about the higher self and category 2

[rishmash]

One of the things I only just realised from reading the book, is that the higher self we are attached to is part of 8 other higher selves that are attached to a higher self from the second level. This intrigues me and it has got me wondering what happens to the first higher self when we move on. It cannot become redundant because Michel moved forward, only to come back again.

Another thing that really interested me was that the Thaora referred to the purification of one out of nine elements before we progress on. I wonder if that is desire, I cannot think of any other thing that is more challenging to clear. Buddha said that it is the source of all our suffering, and Jesus certainly was not too happy about materialism

R

[Robanan]

One of the things I only just realised from reading the book, is that the higher self we are attached to is part of 8 other higher selves that are attached to a higher self from the second level. This intrigues me and it has got me wondering what happens to the first higher self when we move on. It cannot become redundant because Michel moved forward, only to come back again.

I also think it can not become redundant, so what do you think could be the other possible case scenarios?

Another thing that really interested me was that the Thaora referred to the purification of one out of nine elements before we progress on. I wonder if that is desire, I cannot think of any other thing that is more challenging to clear. Buddha said that it is the source of all our suffering, and Jesus certainly was not too happy about materialism

R

You can give up the "desire" to "live" and kill yourself, how far would you expect yourself to go like that?
You won't be able to learn anything if every time you are given an opportunity to read and learn, you burn the book instead... and yet... to learn and increase your understanding is but one of your spiritual needs.

Do you need what you desire? should you? why?

[Matt]

The planet Earth could be likened to a kindergarten with
the emphasis on teaching basic social values. A planet of the second category
would then correspond with a primary school where further values are taught - in
both schools, adult guidance is imperative. The third category would comprise
secondary schools where a foundation of values allows exploration beyond. Next,
you would go to university, where you are treated as an adult, for you would not
only have attained a certain amount of knowledge, but you would also start to
accept civic responsibility.

I don't believe desire is the sole root of social values, but rather getting along with other people pulls on a variety of fundamentals(desire for material things included).

[shezmear]

The idea behind having the higher selves as filters is that the creator actually harvests our thoughts and vibrations.The higher selves filter out the vibrations that we generate and only let through the positive vibrations and sensation that we feel.

This is one reason why if you ever want to talk with your higher self you must always use positive thoughts feelings and words, as it will only ever take on these and respond to these.

It is also another reason why we suffer, when we suffer we purify. We are, if you like, squeezed till all the "dirt" comes out, till there is nothing more to filter by our higher selves.. Then we are aloud a little closer, then squeezed again till more "dirt" comes out, then we are allowed a little closer.

Personally I’m jack of it….I've been squeezed a little too much lately….and I recon I got it easy….I don’t like the system of course the argument is, well could I make it better?, nope, but I’m not about to mistake the map for the tertiary. Spending lifetimes suffering again and again, and again, and again is something to look forward to.

The other part is that nobody makes us do it, we are drawn into a physical body in order to return to the creator, A desire which “is” put there but the only way home is through repeated experience in a physical body. So nobody makes you do it, you agree to it, like a contract and the contract has fine print…..your life is the fine print. Everything that is going down in your life is the fine print. I can’t help but feel this thing is rigged…. it’s because it is….

In fact you can hang out in the astral plane which is considered paradise for eternity if you like…. I have been thinking about returning home early in protest of a late , but just before I give up..I have a breakthrough, somehow in some way things work out and I’m back battling in this thing called life….

[rishmash]

Hi Robanan,

I am not following your logic I am afraid. How can giving up the desire to live automatically lead to suicide? Isnt the act of suicide due to the desire to die.

Have you yourself ever looked deeply at the desire to do something or have something, then spent time letting go of a lot of the attachments and aversions connected to the desire. Take for example my current desire to finish a report for a client. I have fear associated with the task, and this stems from a need for security (if i don't get this right, i could lose my job, lose my house, and my family and i will be out on the street). As I release this by first acknowledging it, and then letting go of the desire for security, i feel calmer and more peaceful, and can do the task more easily due to a calm emotional state.

That is what i mean by ending desire, dealing with issues in the moment as they emerge as best as you can, by recognising there is some core need/desire behind it, letting it go and then moving forward with a greater sense of peace.

It is not the apperances but what is behind them, that really strikes a chord hear for me, in other words what is the underlying desire someone has when they approach me and I approach them

R

[Robanan]

Hi rishmash,

I thought you took that passage in the book too literally, the passage you refer to is a comparison made in the book that as explained refers to several specific categories of sensations which have much more than one "instance" and each of these instances have several other "elements" attached and intertwined within them. The very notion of elements and filters is pure imagery and has little to do with the real thing. You reflected this into the example you gave, so thanks for clearing that up. I don't believe in rules of thumb, specially when spiritual development is concerned.

Isnt the act of suicide due to the desire to die?

I think what makes us what we are is the desire to live life. When the desire to live is lost a lot of other things "can" take it's place, one of them is the desire to die. But I think the act of suicide is due to the choice to die.

[bomohwkl]

Desire can cause suffering. It is not the root of it. It is your mentality and pre-conceived perception of desire that causes suffering. You need to understand clearly. I would explain here in details. Let's give an example, you desired security, the fear of lack of security frightens you. The fear of lack of security translates to physical lost of your material possession and your mean of way to survive in the material world. The fear is real. We have to acknowledge that. In this case, the desire of security leads to suffering. That's most people would think.

What is I desire to evolve myself, develop myself spiritually, mentally and emotionally? I have no doubt, on the path of self-development, we would encounter several set-back, disappointments, frustration and angers. For example, i want to become a raw vegan, for one week, i can maintain myself as a raw vegan, but suddenly after a week, i have a tempation to try meat. I have eaten. I would get angry of myself because i don't adhere to my principle. You can say that the desire to be raw vegan causes suffering. The feeling is real. We have to acknowldge that. However, in this case, it is a path of self-development. As long as after you aknowledge the feeling and accept that it is part and parcel of self-evolution , then you start to release the emotion. The desire to continue to be raw vegan will be renewed.
Also remember, there is no absolute security. Absolute security means absolute prediction of the outcome. There will be no uncertainty. Without any uncertainty, there will be no growth.When you look deeper within you, you will know that there is only one absolute security that you can rely on. That's YOU and your connection to the higher-self and relationship with God.
Most spiritual people would think that having abunadance of walth is a spiritual sin. Most spiritual person lives in poverty and rarely becomes wealthy enough. There is nothing wrong to have abundance of wealth and possession. No father wants their children to live in poverty. No father wants their children to deny the opportunity to be able to have wonderful stuffs in life. I am sure that your parents would like you be wealthy. That's the love your parents project.
Understand that the Creator doesn't want you to have toys and things. The Creator doesn't want you to do certain things. The Creator wants you to become the person neccesary to be capable of having and to those things. In other words, your creator wants you to GROW to continue to reach the star. Do embrace certain amount of chaos ( lack of security, etc) and be grateful as it proves to you that you are GROWING. The grandest systems are the one that can sustain the influx of the greatest amount of choas and no go into nuclear meltdown. You are here to be an effective co-creator with the Great Intellect. With abundance of wealth, your benefit of actions will be significantly multiplied.
I hope I make my explaination clear.

[bomohwkl]

Freedom and power come from knowing what you want without being a prisoner to what you want.

[Rezo]

theres a movie i heard about by david sereda recently 'the voice' and others, from listening to him on the kevin smith show tonight [pretty interesting], I then found a youtube link [also available as free podcast on itunes] of david being interviewed by Henrik Palmgren on Red Ice creations, and in the beg. of part 2, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcdKPGeV ... re=related , he mentions the "lankavatara sutra" regarding a concept in that, he translated as '9 rings of enlightenment' and I found that interesting, and its a pretty interesting interview.

the sutra [according to wikipedia]:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lankavatara_Sutra

Apparently David had the time to meditate at least 3 hrs every day for 30 years...