legiwei,
As strange as it may sound... 'IT' may well be understood and expressed though limited forms and ways. I really liked your last response. If we take the Thiaoouban Prophecy as a factual account the notion of technological advancement without spiritual advancement it seems to still continue to play a role and it may even be possible to develop spiritually without developing technologically. Evidently Thiaooubans, earthling, 'americans' 'europeans' and aborigines et all are not equal and still they be quite equal... Personally I subscribe to the belief that God ensures I get it... Just as I do not follow something merely because I am told; because it is said to be good for me; I am also quite cautious when it comes from within from my heart... or my mind... or my body... For I realize that most of the time, I could only get it right, do it, etc when assisted and may only realize and get it after a while... BTW sometimes one does it and then develops the likes to do it...and one may keep wondering about it for years to come. I am weary of 'the original temptation' whenever I perceive it directly or indirectly. Many of my question are expressed as a means to stimulate dialogue and wonderment... to share, to learn, to cultivate... I agree an insight, the answer, may come by keep thinking to get it as it may come by dialogue, by contemplation, by reading some advertisement, etc. by someone asking a question or making a comment.
Its rather interesting to me to observe how difficult it sometimes is to share some insights ... and the mental process involved... In a book I read I saw an excellent example... take a close look at what you experience in the considering the following ... (and determining if it be factually correct)
I know a man that when he yells is heard in his house
I know a man that when he yells is heard in the street
I know a man that when he yells is heard in the moon
I also know a man that likes to throw sticks but does not like to go get them
I know a smarter man who has trained his dog to recover the sticks when he throws them
I know a smarter man who has trained the sticks to come back on their own when thrown!
Now what if I told you that one of the men works in NASA and an other one owns a boomerang?
Technologies can make what seems impossible to do to be quite possible to do! And while we may posses the knowledge sometimes we simply do not integrate it to enable us to see something.
I invite you to share with us what you wanted to say even if the words seem quite limiting and distorting... I find insight from what is said... from what I perceive it is said ... and from the similarities and differences involved...
namaste
Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
ET,
Of course it is possible to develop yourself spritually without technological advancement. In fact, it is probably easier. The problem with technology is that we are using it for the wrong means, to satisfy our primitive material desires. And in the process of cultivating it, we degrade further as a society and civilisation as a whole. In this age, it is increasingly difficult to differentiate right and wrong where a wrong action could still be viewed and argued back as correct. A person who cheats may very well be greatly rewarded materially and everything else in life.
I am perhaps having a very different thought process from you. In fact, in all of your post, I am actually having difficult to understand exactly what you will like to say. I view things just as it is. I take a very simple view on it. I do not try to complicate things, I always try to simplify it. Remember,even in the book, it says that "simplicity is often superior to complexity".
My best advice is to look within. Learn to do meditation. Before you meditate, there is actually a lot of preparation before you can actually do so. In all of this process, you will probably come to see things as I see it. Learn to calm yourself down, be still and listen.
There is really no better teacher than your higher self.
Of course it is possible to develop yourself spritually without technological advancement. In fact, it is probably easier. The problem with technology is that we are using it for the wrong means, to satisfy our primitive material desires. And in the process of cultivating it, we degrade further as a society and civilisation as a whole. In this age, it is increasingly difficult to differentiate right and wrong where a wrong action could still be viewed and argued back as correct. A person who cheats may very well be greatly rewarded materially and everything else in life.
I am perhaps having a very different thought process from you. In fact, in all of your post, I am actually having difficult to understand exactly what you will like to say. I view things just as it is. I take a very simple view on it. I do not try to complicate things, I always try to simplify it. Remember,even in the book, it says that "simplicity is often superior to complexity".
My best advice is to look within. Learn to do meditation. Before you meditate, there is actually a lot of preparation before you can actually do so. In all of this process, you will probably come to see things as I see it. Learn to calm yourself down, be still and listen.
There is really no better teacher than your higher self.
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
]legiwei,
I hope that you do come to see that Technology isn't the problem nor the solution ... for it be with how we choose to use it... that becomes the problem and the solution. *** even using it to satisfy our primitive material desires isn't wrong, what's really wrong is that instead of cultivating it and cultivating the truth, love beauty, peace, understanding, wholes (individual and collectives) in this age, 'individuals' are increasingly choosing "to do what 'they' want and experiment in whatever ways 'they' feel is good for 'them' in order for 'them' to make 'their' very own 'reality'".
What is quite apparent as you sort of point out is that individuals (and collectives) choose what appears right, but isn't, instead of choosing what appears right and is right... while justifying their choices with all sort of arguments to prove how correct they be... Oh and seek to point out the truth and these 'beings' will likely create a tantrum instead of engaging in a reasonable dialogue. YES, a person who cheats may very well be greatly rewarded materially and everything else in life... for a time being... then the person reaps what they have sown and themselves becomes cheated of a divine live everlasting.
It seems quite apparent that we are indeed using different thought process... though i see that in essence we actually share the core issues. For example when you state that "In fact, it is probably easier... " to develop oneself spritually without technological advancement... I perceive that you are reflecting how earthlings and Thiaooubalings while at different technological states sort of are essentially equal regarding potential spiritual evolutions. At one time I heard, read, or got that 'earth and now be the place and time where beings can evolve the fastest out of all universes and times'. Which is one of the reasons we are here! Exactly what I would like to say? Well that the idea that we have to reach world 9 development to develop spiritually is s fluke that pushes us down and world 9 up AND that we can choose right now the better ways to be...
I too like to take a very simple view of what be... and simplify it... My best advice is to perceive ( look, hear, sense, etc) what be... within and whitout. I wonder if this process is meant for me to come to see things as you see them OR for you to come to see things as I see them OR for us to share and learn things by perceiving different perspectives and realizing a thing or two OR many other possibilities and realities. BTW when you state that "There is really no better teacher than your higher self" I wonder if that is in fact true, for to me God be the ultimate teacher and can work through everything... In a way I can see God as my higher self and in a way I see my higher self and me coexisting with God. Though bringing the notion of God into the dialogue can be quite troublesome for some. Besides I believe that if we dialogue on the sustainable-desirable-congruent with life, love, truth, beauty and all that be good it be essentially the same ... and for me it be possible to translate and dialogue in different belief languages... the same core issues.
namaste
I hope that you do come to see that Technology isn't the problem nor the solution ... for it be with how we choose to use it... that becomes the problem and the solution. *** even using it to satisfy our primitive material desires isn't wrong, what's really wrong is that instead of cultivating it and cultivating the truth, love beauty, peace, understanding, wholes (individual and collectives) in this age, 'individuals' are increasingly choosing "to do what 'they' want and experiment in whatever ways 'they' feel is good for 'them' in order for 'them' to make 'their' very own 'reality'".
What is quite apparent as you sort of point out is that individuals (and collectives) choose what appears right, but isn't, instead of choosing what appears right and is right... while justifying their choices with all sort of arguments to prove how correct they be... Oh and seek to point out the truth and these 'beings' will likely create a tantrum instead of engaging in a reasonable dialogue. YES, a person who cheats may very well be greatly rewarded materially and everything else in life... for a time being... then the person reaps what they have sown and themselves becomes cheated of a divine live everlasting.
It seems quite apparent that we are indeed using different thought process... though i see that in essence we actually share the core issues. For example when you state that "In fact, it is probably easier... " to develop oneself spritually without technological advancement... I perceive that you are reflecting how earthlings and Thiaooubalings while at different technological states sort of are essentially equal regarding potential spiritual evolutions. At one time I heard, read, or got that 'earth and now be the place and time where beings can evolve the fastest out of all universes and times'. Which is one of the reasons we are here! Exactly what I would like to say? Well that the idea that we have to reach world 9 development to develop spiritually is s fluke that pushes us down and world 9 up AND that we can choose right now the better ways to be...
I too like to take a very simple view of what be... and simplify it... My best advice is to perceive ( look, hear, sense, etc) what be... within and whitout. I wonder if this process is meant for me to come to see things as you see them OR for you to come to see things as I see them OR for us to share and learn things by perceiving different perspectives and realizing a thing or two OR many other possibilities and realities. BTW when you state that "There is really no better teacher than your higher self" I wonder if that is in fact true, for to me God be the ultimate teacher and can work through everything... In a way I can see God as my higher self and in a way I see my higher self and me coexisting with God. Though bringing the notion of God into the dialogue can be quite troublesome for some. Besides I believe that if we dialogue on the sustainable-desirable-congruent with life, love, truth, beauty and all that be good it be essentially the same ... and for me it be possible to translate and dialogue in different belief languages... the same core issues.
namaste
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
Indeed, if technology were to be used to free us from our present task to better enable us to concentrate on developing ourselves materially, things will have been different. But sadly that isn't the case that is to be. Technology that we have at the moment is use to enslave us in material persuit. We have say better houses, better cars, better tvs, better gadgets, better apparels, etc all of which fuel our material desire. This creates a very big distraction from our goal to develop ourselves spiritually. People are now more occupied to find more money in order to satisfy their material persuits. That is why I come to the conclusion that it is more difficult to develop ourselves spiritually with technology advancement as we are experiencing right now. We are not having technology to simplify our lifestyles, instead, it is used more to satisfy our material desires.
You are indeed right that a person may get away with all the things in life but will suffer in spirit. I like the way you view it. But it is very saddening to have such things happening and on a grand scale. We become passified. More and more people will follow suit and make a living by cheating. In the end, people will only regress further.
I was actually trying to say that without technology, they will be less distraction and people will dwell more on nature and have more room to develop themselves spiritually.
I will love to see things the way you see it and thanks for the sharing.
You are indeed right that a person may get away with all the things in life but will suffer in spirit. I like the way you view it. But it is very saddening to have such things happening and on a grand scale. We become passified. More and more people will follow suit and make a living by cheating. In the end, people will only regress further.
I was actually trying to say that without technology, they will be less distraction and people will dwell more on nature and have more room to develop themselves spiritually.
I will love to see things the way you see it and thanks for the sharing.
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
legiwei,
When I read your response I thought "well that be why you choose to be here..." I do wonder if 'x' thing would (or would not) better enable us to concentrate on developing ourselves materially, spiritually, emotionally; ESPECIALLY, when we tend to choose 'distractions' over more 'enriching experiences'. Personally I even see the that 'the goal to develop ourselves spiritually' distracts us from 'the development goal' which enriches everything! One of the things I do quite a bit is take what be said and apply it more generally; thus for example I would substitute 'technology' with say 'the material' and explore how that plays out... I also keep a somewhat fuzzy conception that involves what was intended, what was said, what was perceived, what be the correlation between them all and then with what be that be... while recognizing that I may or may not actually know 'what be'. For example In your first sentence you said 'materially ' though I believe you intended to say 'spiritually'. I hold that the core issue we all are dealing with has to do with relationships and development of better ways of being and dealing with everything, including uncertainty. I raised up the question "Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal" to sort of draw attention that we are equal (and singularly different), just like you and me are equal and singularly different.
It seems to me than in the past, where there was less technology, the focus of people was not on developing themselves spiritually... if we take a look at some stories of the past it seems that there has always been those who cultivate 'abundance' and those who exploit it. (of course substitute: spirituality, beauty, truth, knowledge, wisdom, freedom, respect, peace etc... for 'abundance' to get a broader notion of what I intend to state). The crux of the matter to me seems to be revolving around each and all shifting and helping each shift towards 'enriching experiences' that be enriching... and now be the instant we have to do it... its an illusion that we will change when thing change... for its more likely the other way around, we change and things will change... or at the very least we see things quite differently. ITS tempting to follow suit and make a living the way of the charlatan, which works for a time being, but its more appropriate to follow principles and make a living the sustainable way... which works both for a time being and an eternal one... I believe many technologies we do not have access to at this time to protect us from hurting ourselves and others... though that has not stopped individuals from exploiting themselves and others instead of cultivating each. I wonder how Thiaooubalings have resolve this. I used to wonder and ponder over "how to get the bully not to be a bully without bulling them"? That is how do you get someone to get something without getting entangled in their waysº... I found to solutions "not to interact with them' 'Interact with them with better rules". It seems to me that many have chosen the way of avoiding interactions instead of playing using better way. Now its become evident that we need to find ways to deal with the issues that some want to avoid. Its now evident that what 'each' does affects everyone else and it may be for better or for worst... on the same hand each is free to choose what to do for better or for worst... (oh and not doing a thing still be doing something!) Thus its not a matter of intervening or not intervening but on how to intervene... its not a matter of 'polluting' or not 'polluting' but on how to 'pollute'... you know that oxygen is a pollution generated by the plants and co2 is a pollution of us ... which in the right proportions allow for the sustenance of a good life for both... I believe that this is the same at many levels... it just that some still have to learn the better ways to be and interact. The teacher is also the student and the student is also the teacher...
namaste
When I read your response I thought "well that be why you choose to be here..." I do wonder if 'x' thing would (or would not) better enable us to concentrate on developing ourselves materially, spiritually, emotionally; ESPECIALLY, when we tend to choose 'distractions' over more 'enriching experiences'. Personally I even see the that 'the goal to develop ourselves spiritually' distracts us from 'the development goal' which enriches everything! One of the things I do quite a bit is take what be said and apply it more generally; thus for example I would substitute 'technology' with say 'the material' and explore how that plays out... I also keep a somewhat fuzzy conception that involves what was intended, what was said, what was perceived, what be the correlation between them all and then with what be that be... while recognizing that I may or may not actually know 'what be'. For example In your first sentence you said 'materially ' though I believe you intended to say 'spiritually'. I hold that the core issue we all are dealing with has to do with relationships and development of better ways of being and dealing with everything, including uncertainty. I raised up the question "Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal" to sort of draw attention that we are equal (and singularly different), just like you and me are equal and singularly different.
It seems to me than in the past, where there was less technology, the focus of people was not on developing themselves spiritually... if we take a look at some stories of the past it seems that there has always been those who cultivate 'abundance' and those who exploit it. (of course substitute: spirituality, beauty, truth, knowledge, wisdom, freedom, respect, peace etc... for 'abundance' to get a broader notion of what I intend to state). The crux of the matter to me seems to be revolving around each and all shifting and helping each shift towards 'enriching experiences' that be enriching... and now be the instant we have to do it... its an illusion that we will change when thing change... for its more likely the other way around, we change and things will change... or at the very least we see things quite differently. ITS tempting to follow suit and make a living the way of the charlatan, which works for a time being, but its more appropriate to follow principles and make a living the sustainable way... which works both for a time being and an eternal one... I believe many technologies we do not have access to at this time to protect us from hurting ourselves and others... though that has not stopped individuals from exploiting themselves and others instead of cultivating each. I wonder how Thiaooubalings have resolve this. I used to wonder and ponder over "how to get the bully not to be a bully without bulling them"? That is how do you get someone to get something without getting entangled in their waysº... I found to solutions "not to interact with them' 'Interact with them with better rules". It seems to me that many have chosen the way of avoiding interactions instead of playing using better way. Now its become evident that we need to find ways to deal with the issues that some want to avoid. Its now evident that what 'each' does affects everyone else and it may be for better or for worst... on the same hand each is free to choose what to do for better or for worst... (oh and not doing a thing still be doing something!) Thus its not a matter of intervening or not intervening but on how to intervene... its not a matter of 'polluting' or not 'polluting' but on how to 'pollute'... you know that oxygen is a pollution generated by the plants and co2 is a pollution of us ... which in the right proportions allow for the sustenance of a good life for both... I believe that this is the same at many levels... it just that some still have to learn the better ways to be and interact. The teacher is also the student and the student is also the teacher...
namaste
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
Thanks for the correction, mistype spirituality for materiality (what a big difference) in my previous post 1st sentence. I've already shared my views and my underlying reasons which is pretty much consistent with TP in my opinion. I guess you do not entirely agree with it and I respect that.
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
legiwei,
Thanks for validating that I got what you intended to state independent of what you actually stated. Its amazing to me how its possible to communicate (or not) using words. BTW and to use the mistype --- at some level materiality and spirituality be the same thing... Energy and matter are constituted from the same thing... of course I do get that the bias towards materiality ignoring the spiritual can be quite negative... just as a bias towards spirituality ignoring the material can be quite negative... ideally the interaction of materiality and spirituality towards good is the best possibility... same goes for means or ends... its best for both means and ends to be good... likewise with science and faith... self and society... etc... I have enjoyed quite a bit participating here... and hope that further dialogues will be quite enriching... I suppose time will tell...
namaste
I too respect you and what you hold...
Thanks for validating that I got what you intended to state independent of what you actually stated. Its amazing to me how its possible to communicate (or not) using words. BTW and to use the mistype --- at some level materiality and spirituality be the same thing... Energy and matter are constituted from the same thing... of course I do get that the bias towards materiality ignoring the spiritual can be quite negative... just as a bias towards spirituality ignoring the material can be quite negative... ideally the interaction of materiality and spirituality towards good is the best possibility... same goes for means or ends... its best for both means and ends to be good... likewise with science and faith... self and society... etc... I have enjoyed quite a bit participating here... and hope that further dialogues will be quite enriching... I suppose time will tell...
namaste
I too respect you and what you hold...