I found it rather peculiar to perceive how level 9 worlds all the way down to level 1 all share the singular fact 'of not being fully perfect'... It appears that one of the premises of the book centers on the idea of technologically advancement hardly equates to spiritually advancement... I perceived a somewhat 'exclusive' condescending attitude of levels of attainment instead of a shared peer notion. I hold to believe that independent of being a child or a grown up each is exposed to resolve issues of the ways of love... in fact some grownups still need to learn how to be kind and loving instead of opportunistic and selfish egoists ... I believe that now be the time to learn and determine how we will be forevermore... and this be a time to learn how to choose without truly knowing what we choose... the way I do it involves the notion "be it real be it a dream always choose the better way to be"... with help of following the sustainable-desirable-congruentfilter... in a similar matter the idea of being able to discern what appears to be because it be from what appears to be because it appears to be without being leads into a slippery slope that reminds me of the original temptation. I welcome 'rational' dialogues to jointly explore the issues fully conscious that ultimately what we choose to believe impacts what we experience... Oh and this invitation extends to Thiaoouban's who I trust can participate here, openly or covertly, I trust that much enrichment and insights will stem from dialogues here...
Namaste et-1
Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
Moderator: Moderators
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
I perceive it that both in University and Kindergarten you have both teachers and students... and LESSONS!!
Of course that comparing both from a technical point of view may not make sense except as to how much the courses subjects are regarding nature and complexity. Assuming that lessons even on a 9th category planet are regarding LOVE is such a long shot... and probably doesn't make a lot of sense. ou know usually kindergarten kids speaking about what's taught on a university doesn't make much sense as well although it's in early ages that one can start to have a grasp of what moves them and what they'd like to learn ("Autobiography of a Yogi" comes to mind here).
Of course that comparing both from a technical point of view may not make sense except as to how much the courses subjects are regarding nature and complexity. Assuming that lessons even on a 9th category planet are regarding LOVE is such a long shot... and probably doesn't make a lot of sense. ou know usually kindergarten kids speaking about what's taught on a university doesn't make much sense as well although it's in early ages that one can start to have a grasp of what moves them and what they'd like to learn ("Autobiography of a Yogi" comes to mind here).
“The best portion of a good man's life is his little nameless unremembered acts of kindness and love.”
~William Wordsworth
~William Wordsworth
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
Indeed both a university and a kindergarten essentially are equal just as they each be quite different... Note how in each individual students and teachers deal with certain common issues regarding learning the subject matter at hand... and share certain ground rules... like acceptable behaviors and unacceptable ones... for example the notion that copying others work and presenting it as ones own will not be tolerated! that challenging the teacher isn't appropriate because the teacher knows best... which may just be a strategy that the teachers uses to hide ignorance of the subject matter... I remember when I was in seventh grade being told by a teacher that I just could not do the work that I wanted to do because it involved more advanced math instead of being helped to learn the more advanced math... Fortunately I was graced with having attended a reading summer camp where the owner showed me a way that enabled me to venture into realizing that the only teacher I would have would be myself... That 'teachers' can only show the door and, the real good ones, may show different ways to get it but its the student that must finally get it themselves... *** its even more of a challenge when subjective matters get involved... and the student has to translate the teachers language into the students language to get it and then retranslate it back using the teachers language because the teacher can only get it that way... At that same summer camp in later years I had many other experiences... Like realizing being a teacher without knowing it and while still being a student... how good teachers often learn from students... how there are infinite possibilities above and below the level one be at... and how in interacting with other each gives and gets...
I wanted to share and dialogue over the issue of " the idea of technologically advancement hardly equates to spiritually advancement..." and how a somewhat 'exclusive' condescending attitude of levels of attainment instead of a shared peer notion... Like choosing to think that children just do not have to deal with the issues when in fact they deal with them... of course with particulars of their particular level... for example the selfish child will want to do what they please and keep the toy with a tantrum instead of sharing it with control... the selfish teen will want to do what they please with rebellions instead of better ways... and the selfish adult will want to do what they please instead of reasoning things out... of course 'selfish' is just one example... I could had chosen dealing with telling the truth (or not telling it), dealing with frustration, relaxation love peace understanding learning et all... In a similar way I perceive that ultimately technology advancement will hardly get us to get spiritual advancements... The whole issue of ascension seems to me to distract from the now... It is sort of as if seeking to move on instead or resolving the issues here and now... To me the idea of resolving things through reincarnation can be applied to this life... either one resolves/learns them as a baby as a child as a teen as an adult as a grownup as an elderly ... What makes one thing that if one puts if off for a latter time one will not keep putting it off for a letter time ... indefinitely!
namaste et-1
I wanted to share and dialogue over the issue of " the idea of technologically advancement hardly equates to spiritually advancement..." and how a somewhat 'exclusive' condescending attitude of levels of attainment instead of a shared peer notion... Like choosing to think that children just do not have to deal with the issues when in fact they deal with them... of course with particulars of their particular level... for example the selfish child will want to do what they please and keep the toy with a tantrum instead of sharing it with control... the selfish teen will want to do what they please with rebellions instead of better ways... and the selfish adult will want to do what they please instead of reasoning things out... of course 'selfish' is just one example... I could had chosen dealing with telling the truth (or not telling it), dealing with frustration, relaxation love peace understanding learning et all... In a similar way I perceive that ultimately technology advancement will hardly get us to get spiritual advancements... The whole issue of ascension seems to me to distract from the now... It is sort of as if seeking to move on instead or resolving the issues here and now... To me the idea of resolving things through reincarnation can be applied to this life... either one resolves/learns them as a baby as a child as a teen as an adult as a grownup as an elderly ... What makes one thing that if one puts if off for a latter time one will not keep putting it off for a letter time ... indefinitely!
namaste et-1
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
I do not think that life on a category 9 planet will be the same or equal as a category 1 planet. The Thiaooubans have mastered both spiritually and technologically to a point of "perfection" wherelse we are still very much at the beginning trying to understand how to love one another. We are simply not evolved enough. Our lifestyles and lessons are entirely different.
However, I will not disagree with your post that a teacher could learn from a student or an adult learning from a children here on planet Earth. It also reminds me of the teachings of Jesus to learn from children. Infact, I think alot of people could take this cue and indeed really learn from them. There are increasingly alot of things that children are perhaps far better than an adult.
However, I will not disagree with your post that a teacher could learn from a student or an adult learning from a children here on planet Earth. It also reminds me of the teachings of Jesus to learn from children. Infact, I think alot of people could take this cue and indeed really learn from them. There are increasingly alot of things that children are perhaps far better than an adult.
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
I am contemplating what you had said et, about the condescending attitude and could only find constructive criticism of our earthly ways via a caring concern for self-awareness development. To me, its our reference point of technology, and perhaps social interaction, and spirituality for what is real as its our daily experience, so we assume the worst when our way of doing things [ego?], and systems are called into question. Do you refer to their 'prime directive' of non-interference, or something regarding their interaction w/Michel?
Thao had stated to Michel, their technology is in harmony with nature by emulating parts of it that are beneficial. She also mentioned of the ingenuity of forward-thinking scientists on earth who create pollution free motors. Its not like they think we are dumb as far as technology goes, perhaps a little slow, or habitually forgetful, but I dont think it was suggested by them that we somehow need 'more of it' to liberate ourselves from suffering. Its more regarding the 'four dangers' and specifically, how we conduct ourselves individually have an effect on the large scale. Of course with insight, one can also come to quite similar conclusions w/o having ever read the book. In fact, Martians were said to have been very spiritual, with very little technology. They didnt tell Michel how fast their ship goes, or location of Arki's planet X - is it details like this you refer to? Heres a question: why did not people from category 9 that use very little technology, come to teach Michel? I'm sure they could have if transported some other way. But they did not. Perhaps they speak to us, having long ago gone through such changes. Would have liked to hear more about it.
Thao had stated to Michel, their technology is in harmony with nature by emulating parts of it that are beneficial. She also mentioned of the ingenuity of forward-thinking scientists on earth who create pollution free motors. Its not like they think we are dumb as far as technology goes, perhaps a little slow, or habitually forgetful, but I dont think it was suggested by them that we somehow need 'more of it' to liberate ourselves from suffering. Its more regarding the 'four dangers' and specifically, how we conduct ourselves individually have an effect on the large scale. Of course with insight, one can also come to quite similar conclusions w/o having ever read the book. In fact, Martians were said to have been very spiritual, with very little technology. They didnt tell Michel how fast their ship goes, or location of Arki's planet X - is it details like this you refer to? Heres a question: why did not people from category 9 that use very little technology, come to teach Michel? I'm sure they could have if transported some other way. But they did not. Perhaps they speak to us, having long ago gone through such changes. Would have liked to hear more about it.
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
legiwei,
The point I sought to share was that we like the Thiaooubans have mastered both spiritually and technologically to a point of "perfection" which still falls short of perfection... and thus in essence are the same (still need some steps to reach perfection). Sure our lifestyles and lessons are entirely different at one level and quite the same at another... WE and THEM still need to evolve... An example I like to use is that we are all smart to some degree and all stupid to to some degree... thus we are all alike... I believe that there are infinite levels above and below any point short of perfection and thus in essence the points are the same (and also quite different)
Rezo mentions something I find quite intriguing... how we react when our stories of things are called into question. Some venture and seek to explore and some make up all sort of justifications. I will go look up in the book the specific line that lead me to experience how the Thiaooubans where being 'condescending'... The whole idea of different level worlds just does not gyve with me... though I do understand it quite well. Here on earth we already have different world levels. *** even work colleges can exist within quite different worlds. For example the CEO world is quite different from other organizational 'worlds' or sub-worlds. IT, Marketing, Legal, Accountants, Manufacturing, Logistics each have their own world and language and stories... FWIIW I have been moving towards the belief that holding that the material world is something to be transcended isn't good, its like holding that the world, the ego, science, the intellect or whatever is evil and must be rejected or transcended instead of holding that those things can become good or bad depending on what one chooses to do with them.
namaste
The point I sought to share was that we like the Thiaooubans have mastered both spiritually and technologically to a point of "perfection" which still falls short of perfection... and thus in essence are the same (still need some steps to reach perfection). Sure our lifestyles and lessons are entirely different at one level and quite the same at another... WE and THEM still need to evolve... An example I like to use is that we are all smart to some degree and all stupid to to some degree... thus we are all alike... I believe that there are infinite levels above and below any point short of perfection and thus in essence the points are the same (and also quite different)
Rezo mentions something I find quite intriguing... how we react when our stories of things are called into question. Some venture and seek to explore and some make up all sort of justifications. I will go look up in the book the specific line that lead me to experience how the Thiaooubans where being 'condescending'... The whole idea of different level worlds just does not gyve with me... though I do understand it quite well. Here on earth we already have different world levels. *** even work colleges can exist within quite different worlds. For example the CEO world is quite different from other organizational 'worlds' or sub-worlds. IT, Marketing, Legal, Accountants, Manufacturing, Logistics each have their own world and language and stories... FWIIW I have been moving towards the belief that holding that the material world is something to be transcended isn't good, its like holding that the world, the ego, science, the intellect or whatever is evil and must be rejected or transcended instead of holding that those things can become good or bad depending on what one chooses to do with them.
namaste
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
I see your point, however, given the example of category 1 civilization like that of Mu in the book, I fail to see how we at our current stage are in any way close to the point of perfection spiritually, even at our own level, let alone category 9 beings ..? Materially we seem to have reached a certain point though, where scientists need to come up with something new, to explain things like "dark matter", or linking gravity with TOE.The point I sought to share was that we like the Thiaooubans have mastered both spiritually and technologically to a point of "perfection" which still falls short of perfection... and thus in essence are the same (still need some steps to reach perfection). Sure our lifestyles and lessons are entirely different at one level and quite the same at another... WE and THEM still need to evolve... An example I like to use is that we are all smart to some degree and all stupid to to some degree... thus we are all alike... I believe that there are infinite levels above and below any point short of perfection and thus in essence the points are the same (and also quite different)
I agree. We can't get rid of material things completely. It's just matter of shifting our focus from it. We are way too much into material reality at this point. I think science can exist with spirituality, we just have figure how. I must admit I haven't come up with many ideas this far, although I admit I'm still only learning the spiritual side myself.. Perhaps our scientists could start with practicing meditation?FWIIW I have been moving towards the belief that holding that the material world is something to be transcended isn't good, its like holding that the world, the ego, science, the intellect or whatever is evil and must be rejected or transcended instead of holding that those things can become good or bad depending on what one chooses to do with them.
Generally people just seem to think that you can't have the one without another. That is usually the way with the things we don't understand, we declare them as bad. Like for example some religious people mock scientists and vice versa.. If we don't understand something we usually tend to fear and hate it - I think we need to acknowledge that fact first to get past it. It's an automatic defense mechanism built into us, into our ego. It takes some time to notice though as fear for example can disguise itself pretty well
Fear of being ridiculed is a good example, fear of losing of our "importance"..Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
I'm sorry but maybe I don't really get you.
It's quite simple to me actually, we at Category 1 are only at the very beginning learning about "morality". Learning things like to respect one another, love your neighbour, love your enemy, being humble, giving, etc. It is probably easier said than done. I've seen countless example where people are well respected, highly looked upon figures, they all generally do not possess genuine good values, especially respect.
Wherelse a person who is on Category 9 will have already possess such a value and mastered it, and many others more that we have yet to even begin to know about. They are already at a stage where they are accepting responsibilities and be in a position to contribute, perhaps at the very highest level. They have already learned the lessons that we need to learn.
Yes perhaps on earth, there might be situations that an adult in a university could be learning the very same lesson being faced by a kid in a kindergarden, but isn't it all about "morality" issues, the very thing we at Category 1 need to learn? But I do not think you could apply this across categories. I cant imagine Thao having to learn lessons like respecting others, having self discipline, being humble, etc.
Isn't is probably why we as a Category 1 cannot jump forward. We are not sufficiently evolved enough yet in order for us to advance. Imagine if we have the environment and physical capabilities to that of the Thiaooubans. And similiarly, inhabitants from a higher Category planet cannot live in a lower Category planet because their astral self is so highly charged that it will cause them more harm in a lower category environment.
The Jews are supposingly from Category 2, just one category higher, and look at what has become of them today.
It's quite simple to me actually, we at Category 1 are only at the very beginning learning about "morality". Learning things like to respect one another, love your neighbour, love your enemy, being humble, giving, etc. It is probably easier said than done. I've seen countless example where people are well respected, highly looked upon figures, they all generally do not possess genuine good values, especially respect.
Wherelse a person who is on Category 9 will have already possess such a value and mastered it, and many others more that we have yet to even begin to know about. They are already at a stage where they are accepting responsibilities and be in a position to contribute, perhaps at the very highest level. They have already learned the lessons that we need to learn.
Yes perhaps on earth, there might be situations that an adult in a university could be learning the very same lesson being faced by a kid in a kindergarden, but isn't it all about "morality" issues, the very thing we at Category 1 need to learn? But I do not think you could apply this across categories. I cant imagine Thao having to learn lessons like respecting others, having self discipline, being humble, etc.
Isn't is probably why we as a Category 1 cannot jump forward. We are not sufficiently evolved enough yet in order for us to advance. Imagine if we have the environment and physical capabilities to that of the Thiaooubans. And similiarly, inhabitants from a higher Category planet cannot live in a lower Category planet because their astral self is so highly charged that it will cause them more harm in a lower category environment.
The Jews are supposingly from Category 2, just one category higher, and look at what has become of them today.
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
Where is it written that Hebra was a category 2?
I remember that p132. mentions about a superior category.
I remember that p132. mentions about a superior category.
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
Sorry, my mistake, it wasn't probably stated, all that I mentioned was recalled based on memory. Perhaps it was my impression that they were around Category 2 that prompt me to do so. My apologies. 
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
BlueHaze,
In a way you hit the nail on the head… with your comment : “I fail to see how we at our current stage are in any way close to the point of perfection”. Realizing that at ones current level one fails to see how far from perfection one really is, is a step closer to perfection! Knowing one does not know is quite better than ignoring that one does not know… Thus, being one step away from perfection or being 10 steps away from perfection still leaves one at some distance away from perfection… now consider that there always are infinite more steps above any given level (and infinite more steps below any given level) making it be both quite impossible and quite possible to move.
You also hit another nail on the head when you sort of point out how some seem to think in dualistic ways, one without another, hot-cold, high–low, moving not moving, instead of say in singularities like ‘temperature is x’, ‘elevation is x’, ‘what be’ etc... Maybe the key resides in shifting our focus towards how we incorporate things, and what we choose to cultivate and being able to move without moving. (sound a lot like the practice of meditation to me… of course one moving without making a move seems paradoxical and counterintuitive.
Legiwei
First off, I am sort of curious if you realize that you choose to begin your response with being sorry; out of all the other possibilities? I am grateful that you choose to respond… Maybe these interactions enable us and others to cultivate and maybe get some lesson to master.
I will seek to be as clear as possible fully conscious that:
- for me its almost a miracle to get it just as you and other mean…
- for you and others its almost a miracle to get it just as I mean…
- sometimes the key actually resides in the not getting it as is but as one gets it (and sometimes the key resides in the getting it as intended).
An example is the teacher realizing something new from the inquiring student who ask a question seeking to learn what the teacher is showing, transforming the student into the teacher and the teacher into the student. “the conduit metaphor” helped me see how the schemas can take different forms in different ‘worlds’ and other dialogues refined this idea. We could jointly explore it further or not.
The question I put forth involves considering the idea that in essence we are the same, dealing with the same issues. This might be dew to me wanting to be ‘more advanced’, wanting others to be ‘more advanced’, it might be dew to the fact that ‘in essence we are the same’, it might be dew to an infinite other possibilities. In any event, it seems to me that ultimately we be dealing with the same issue: being able to attain perfection ourselves; having to learn lessons that we need to learn and have yet to even begin to know about; having certain experiences.
I do wonder if we in fact are able to attain perfection ourselves, for it may be that perfection can only be ultimately attained though a divine grace that one accepts and incorporates. Something along the lines of being able to do what its impossible for us to do thanks to the divine enabling us to do it… which can work through-with-and in ways that transform ‘the imperfect’ to become ‘perfect’ … the finite to become infinite… and even the infinite to become finite and infninte.
Take for example ‘the accident’ of a category 2 into a category 1 world… it could had been an excellent opportunity to transform and advance from the category 1 to category 2… or retrograde from category 2 to category 1… Maybe we cannot jump forward or backward simply because we just do not want to… for it is in this particular point that we be in the best position to contribute…and learn… and love… (we may be stuck with what we have until we choose to make it better (or worst), likely by helping others and ourselves become better (or worst) just as we may be free with what we have while we choose to make and cultivate things).
I read the other posts of whether it was category 2 or just a superior one and in my mind those singular peculiarities seem quite irrelevant, especially after realizing that where one be may have nothing to do with the appropriateness (correctness) of ones choices… I used to hold the idea that one could tell how good one choices had been by looking around and seeing what one is surrounded with (how advanced one be by what world one lives in)… only to realize that the place has actually little to do … we may be in a bad place for a good reason just as we may be in a good place for a bad reason.
Hope you see how this sort of relates to the subject matter of ‘essentially equal’. Oh and to open a whole new can of worms… I hope that you and Thiaooubans (et all intelligent beings) have realized that ‘not intervening’ happens to be a choice as to how to intervene… similarly how we incorporate things, includes choosing not to incorporate them at all! I hold that for advanced individuals its fully possible to monitor and participate here with or without full disclosure being necessary…
Hope you each and all are well and constantly improving…
Namaste
In a way you hit the nail on the head… with your comment : “I fail to see how we at our current stage are in any way close to the point of perfection”. Realizing that at ones current level one fails to see how far from perfection one really is, is a step closer to perfection! Knowing one does not know is quite better than ignoring that one does not know… Thus, being one step away from perfection or being 10 steps away from perfection still leaves one at some distance away from perfection… now consider that there always are infinite more steps above any given level (and infinite more steps below any given level) making it be both quite impossible and quite possible to move.
You also hit another nail on the head when you sort of point out how some seem to think in dualistic ways, one without another, hot-cold, high–low, moving not moving, instead of say in singularities like ‘temperature is x’, ‘elevation is x’, ‘what be’ etc... Maybe the key resides in shifting our focus towards how we incorporate things, and what we choose to cultivate and being able to move without moving. (sound a lot like the practice of meditation to me
… of course one moving without making a move seems paradoxical and counterintuitive. Legiwei
First off, I am sort of curious if you realize that you choose to begin your response with being sorry; out of all the other possibilities? I am grateful that you choose to respond… Maybe these interactions enable us and others to cultivate and maybe get some lesson to master.
I will seek to be as clear as possible fully conscious that:
- for me its almost a miracle to get it just as you and other mean…
- for you and others its almost a miracle to get it just as I mean…
- sometimes the key actually resides in the not getting it as is but as one gets it (and sometimes the key resides in the getting it as intended).
An example is the teacher realizing something new from the inquiring student who ask a question seeking to learn what the teacher is showing, transforming the student into the teacher and the teacher into the student. “the conduit metaphor” helped me see how the schemas can take different forms in different ‘worlds’ and other dialogues refined this idea. We could jointly explore it further or not.
The question I put forth involves considering the idea that in essence we are the same, dealing with the same issues. This might be dew to me wanting to be ‘more advanced’, wanting others to be ‘more advanced’, it might be dew to the fact that ‘in essence we are the same’, it might be dew to an infinite other possibilities. In any event, it seems to me that ultimately we be dealing with the same issue: being able to attain perfection ourselves; having to learn lessons that we need to learn and have yet to even begin to know about; having certain experiences.
I do wonder if we in fact are able to attain perfection ourselves, for it may be that perfection can only be ultimately attained though a divine grace that one accepts and incorporates. Something along the lines of being able to do what its impossible for us to do thanks to the divine enabling us to do it… which can work through-with-and in ways that transform ‘the imperfect’ to become ‘perfect’ … the finite to become infinite… and even the infinite to become finite and infninte.
Take for example ‘the accident’ of a category 2 into a category 1 world… it could had been an excellent opportunity to transform and advance from the category 1 to category 2… or retrograde from category 2 to category 1… Maybe we cannot jump forward or backward simply because we just do not want to… for it is in this particular point that we be in the best position to contribute…and learn… and love… (we may be stuck with what we have until we choose to make it better (or worst), likely by helping others and ourselves become better (or worst) just as we may be free with what we have while we choose to make and cultivate things).
I read the other posts of whether it was category 2 or just a superior one and in my mind those singular peculiarities seem quite irrelevant, especially after realizing that where one be may have nothing to do with the appropriateness (correctness) of ones choices… I used to hold the idea that one could tell how good one choices had been by looking around and seeing what one is surrounded with (how advanced one be by what world one lives in)… only to realize that the place has actually little to do … we may be in a bad place for a good reason just as we may be in a good place for a bad reason.
Hope you see how this sort of relates to the subject matter of ‘essentially equal’. Oh and to open a whole new can of worms… I hope that you and Thiaooubans (et all intelligent beings) have realized that ‘not intervening’ happens to be a choice as to how to intervene… similarly how we incorporate things, includes choosing not to incorporate them at all! I hold that for advanced individuals its fully possible to monitor and participate here with or without full disclosure being necessary…
Hope you each and all are well and constantly improving…
Namaste
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
I'm just being polite. You might have tried hard to explain your point but I fail to understand and might probably even have posted an reply that is totally irrelevant to what you've posted and might not even answer your question. I believe it also puts everyone at ease as I'm not here to prove anyone wrong, creating unrest or anything to that effect. You see, I've seen many discussion in forums which isn't exactly a sharing but more of a place where one ought to find fault with another having no respect towards one another at all. I do not wish my post to be interpreted as intrusive.
Yes, I do agree that teachers could learn something new from a student. Perhaps it could also been a new experience which will spark new ideas whilst its encounteer with a student. But this does not equate the student being equal to the teacher, which is my point.
If you're trying to say that we being the same with the people from Category 9 as in 'wanting to develop ourselves', it is very true. But I see it more as sharing a common purpose, in which, they are probably at the very near to the very highest and probably able to communicate and comprehend directly with "The Spirit".
I don't think it is our goal to attain perfection. Our goal is to develop ourselves spiritually. But by developing ourselves spiritually, we are eliminating "imperfection' which will bring us closer to "perfection'. By focusing on being perfect, we will have to restrict our conduct and observe ourselves strictly even if it is against our will. We will not have understand the reasons being the underlyin action thus it may be very difficult for ourselves to observe such an act. However, by developing ourselves spiritually, we will understand the reasons behind every action which is good for us. This will make us want to have such a character. In the midst of doing so, we are free to do what we want and experiment in whatever ways we feel is good for us in order for us to make our very own conclusion.
I do not think that we cannot advance to the next category because of our own free will. As I've mentioned, we need to show that we have learned the required lessons and have attained the required characteristics before we can advance. Remember in the book, it mentioned about the role of the higher self having to filter immensely our thoughts as it is mostly material? And it also says after it has nothing more to filter, only then we will be able to detach from it to progress to the next category.
However, the opposite is possible on an individual basis. Remember the story of Xiontin from category 8 comin to Earth as Moses in order to assist us?
To me, by just having this book is the best form of intervention. I have benefited enourmously from it as it restores the purpose of what we should have ought to do on Earth. There is no other book that have impacted me this much, it could be said that it had entirely transform me. The only other book that have done something similar was the teachings of Jesus which is pretty much in line with Thiaoouba Propohecy that it is of no surprise to me that Jesus was actually sent from Thiaoouba.
Yes, I do agree that teachers could learn something new from a student. Perhaps it could also been a new experience which will spark new ideas whilst its encounteer with a student. But this does not equate the student being equal to the teacher, which is my point.
If you're trying to say that we being the same with the people from Category 9 as in 'wanting to develop ourselves', it is very true. But I see it more as sharing a common purpose, in which, they are probably at the very near to the very highest and probably able to communicate and comprehend directly with "The Spirit".
I don't think it is our goal to attain perfection. Our goal is to develop ourselves spiritually. But by developing ourselves spiritually, we are eliminating "imperfection' which will bring us closer to "perfection'. By focusing on being perfect, we will have to restrict our conduct and observe ourselves strictly even if it is against our will. We will not have understand the reasons being the underlyin action thus it may be very difficult for ourselves to observe such an act. However, by developing ourselves spiritually, we will understand the reasons behind every action which is good for us. This will make us want to have such a character. In the midst of doing so, we are free to do what we want and experiment in whatever ways we feel is good for us in order for us to make our very own conclusion.
I do not think that we cannot advance to the next category because of our own free will. As I've mentioned, we need to show that we have learned the required lessons and have attained the required characteristics before we can advance. Remember in the book, it mentioned about the role of the higher self having to filter immensely our thoughts as it is mostly material? And it also says after it has nothing more to filter, only then we will be able to detach from it to progress to the next category.
However, the opposite is possible on an individual basis. Remember the story of Xiontin from category 8 comin to Earth as Moses in order to assist us?
To me, by just having this book is the best form of intervention. I have benefited enourmously from it as it restores the purpose of what we should have ought to do on Earth. There is no other book that have impacted me this much, it could be said that it had entirely transform me. The only other book that have done something similar was the teachings of Jesus which is pretty much in line with Thiaoouba Propohecy that it is of no surprise to me that Jesus was actually sent from Thiaoouba.
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
legiwei, et all
My intention be to open an enriching dialogue to further explore liberating ideas that lead towards embracing the better ways, whichever those better ways may happen to be. If I am at fault I would like to be the first to recognize it and learn from it and evidently ask for forgiveness, if other see it first I welcome them pointing out the truth that we may all embrace it. If the truth I states makes some uncomfortable, that be their problem. You see I am for blunt honest dialogues, that expose the truth whatever that truth may be. Evidently
the student be the student and
the teacher be the teacher and
sometimes each is both at the same time.
I do see that you hold to believe in a hierarchy structure where one attains higher levels instead of exploring a singular structure where one be equal and singular at the same time. I sort of wonder if you see yourself higher than equal to or below me... Furthermore on a bit of a side track, it seems to me that on the one hand you desire to focus on being perfect, and freely choose to restrict our conduct and observe ourselves even if it is against our will while on the other hand you want the freedom to experiment in whatever ways 'we' feel is good for 'us' in order for 'us' to make 'our' very 'own' conclusion... Personally I find the latter way of proceeding to be quite dangerous... and prefer to focus only on that which is good for us in order for us to make the right conclusion... which of course may seem to creates a paradox.
How to discern the way without being able to discern who be telling the truth and who be telling lies? Know that one can act in a certain way without understanding why and then come to understand latter why its good for us to act in such a way... and know that it is possible to discern the way even without being able to discern who be telling the truth and who be telling lies.
Back to you post, When you mention that 'Our goal is to develop ourselves spiritually' it seems to me that the focus is an escape from the material instead of integrating it. Kind of like how some in the church believe that the world be evil and the spirit good... I believe that the world and the spirit be; and each can be good and perfect... (or bad and imperfect) ... Actually I believe that God created us all perfect and with the freedom to choose... and being perfect whatever we choose to do we will do it perfectly... leading to only good things... The bad are so bad they are perfectly bad at doing bad things and thus end up doing only good.
I am glad you have benefited enormously from the book. If you want to believe that Jesus was actually sent from Thiaoouba because someone claims it, thats up to you. Personally that seems quite irrelevant. What I find extremely relevant is whether 'we can (or cannot) advance to the next category because of our own free will'. Can we actually attain enlightened through meditation practices or do the meditation practices simply help us recognize the enlightenment opportunity? Do we in fact need to show that we have learned the required lessons and have attained the required characteristics before we can advance? Maybe its a bit more like life where we advance and then 'maybe' learn the required lessons... or maybe advancement is just an illusion that keep us stuck,
Hope that you see my response seeks to find what be... and point out that just maybe we are just where we can learn the most and where we can best integrate the material and the spiritual... I found curious how your focus was not on that 'which is my point'... but rather that which is your point. Which is ok if the objective is to focus on what be your point. I do wonder how believing one has to advance to level 9 frees us to advance instead of binding us to a set path, seems to me it just a matter of degree and its actually possible to attain perfection with divine help now and here. In any event thanks for your responses I do hope you continue and who knows we might discover some things quite interesting...
namaste
My intention be to open an enriching dialogue to further explore liberating ideas that lead towards embracing the better ways, whichever those better ways may happen to be. If I am at fault I would like to be the first to recognize it and learn from it and evidently ask for forgiveness, if other see it first I welcome them pointing out the truth that we may all embrace it. If the truth I states makes some uncomfortable, that be their problem. You see I am for blunt honest dialogues, that expose the truth whatever that truth may be. Evidently
the student be the student and
the teacher be the teacher and
sometimes each is both at the same time.
I do see that you hold to believe in a hierarchy structure where one attains higher levels instead of exploring a singular structure where one be equal and singular at the same time. I sort of wonder if you see yourself higher than equal to or below me... Furthermore on a bit of a side track, it seems to me that on the one hand you desire to focus on being perfect, and freely choose to restrict our conduct and observe ourselves even if it is against our will while on the other hand you want the freedom to experiment in whatever ways 'we' feel is good for 'us' in order for 'us' to make 'our' very 'own' conclusion... Personally I find the latter way of proceeding to be quite dangerous... and prefer to focus only on that which is good for us in order for us to make the right conclusion... which of course may seem to creates a paradox.
How to discern the way without being able to discern who be telling the truth and who be telling lies? Know that one can act in a certain way without understanding why and then come to understand latter why its good for us to act in such a way... and know that it is possible to discern the way even without being able to discern who be telling the truth and who be telling lies.
Back to you post, When you mention that 'Our goal is to develop ourselves spiritually' it seems to me that the focus is an escape from the material instead of integrating it. Kind of like how some in the church believe that the world be evil and the spirit good... I believe that the world and the spirit be; and each can be good and perfect... (or bad and imperfect) ... Actually I believe that God created us all perfect and with the freedom to choose... and being perfect whatever we choose to do we will do it perfectly... leading to only good things... The bad are so bad they are perfectly bad at doing bad things and thus end up doing only good.
I am glad you have benefited enormously from the book. If you want to believe that Jesus was actually sent from Thiaoouba because someone claims it, thats up to you. Personally that seems quite irrelevant. What I find extremely relevant is whether 'we can (or cannot) advance to the next category because of our own free will'. Can we actually attain enlightened through meditation practices or do the meditation practices simply help us recognize the enlightenment opportunity? Do we in fact need to show that we have learned the required lessons and have attained the required characteristics before we can advance? Maybe its a bit more like life where we advance and then 'maybe' learn the required lessons... or maybe advancement is just an illusion that keep us stuck,
Hope that you see my response seeks to find what be... and point out that just maybe we are just where we can learn the most and where we can best integrate the material and the spiritual... I found curious how your focus was not on that 'which is my point'... but rather that which is your point. Which is ok if the objective is to focus on what be your point. I do wonder how believing one has to advance to level 9 frees us to advance instead of binding us to a set path, seems to me it just a matter of degree and its actually possible to attain perfection with divine help now and here. In any event thanks for your responses I do hope you continue and who knows we might discover some things quite interesting...
namaste
Re: Are world 9 and world 1 essentially equal?
It is in my opinion that if you were to truly wish to seek ideas towards the path that you intent to go, the best way is to seek counsel with your higher self. I achieve it by having a conversation with myself and meditation. Although I can share my views with you along with many others, it may not be well understood or expressed as words can be very limitating especially when it comes to matter such as this.
I don't exactly subscribe to a hierarchy structure. In fact, I totally agree with you that teachers can learn from students and a good teacher will definitely have such a trait. I definitely do not see myself as superior to you or anybody else for that matter. I'm merely acknowledging that the Thiaooubans are far ahead of us and I do not see myself as equal to them.
Like I've said, I do not want to be perfect but to develop myself spiritually. But by developing yourself spiritually, you are cleansing yourself from unwanted behaviours which is perhaps viewed as being closer to perfect.
Perhaps it is dangerous to have unchecked freedom to experiment and the consequences can be quite severe. However, what I'm subscribing is to have your conscious/higher self as a guide. You do not follow something merely because you are told or that it is said to be good for you, but you do it because it comes within from your heart, most of the time, you could only do that if you understand what you are doing and will like to do it.
You have your conscious to tell you what is 'right' and 'wrong'. Even if it is not stated in the law, you will know that taking a life of another is wrong. To even discern further, meditation is the way to go.
Anyway, to all of your questions, I will have to say meditation is your best answer. You do not need to keep thinking to get an answer, just calm yourself down, and be still, and the answer will come.
There is actually so much that I wanted to say but I just couldn't find the right words.
I don't exactly subscribe to a hierarchy structure. In fact, I totally agree with you that teachers can learn from students and a good teacher will definitely have such a trait. I definitely do not see myself as superior to you or anybody else for that matter. I'm merely acknowledging that the Thiaooubans are far ahead of us and I do not see myself as equal to them.
Like I've said, I do not want to be perfect but to develop myself spiritually. But by developing yourself spiritually, you are cleansing yourself from unwanted behaviours which is perhaps viewed as being closer to perfect.
Perhaps it is dangerous to have unchecked freedom to experiment and the consequences can be quite severe. However, what I'm subscribing is to have your conscious/higher self as a guide. You do not follow something merely because you are told or that it is said to be good for you, but you do it because it comes within from your heart, most of the time, you could only do that if you understand what you are doing and will like to do it.
You have your conscious to tell you what is 'right' and 'wrong'. Even if it is not stated in the law, you will know that taking a life of another is wrong. To even discern further, meditation is the way to go.
Anyway, to all of your questions, I will have to say meditation is your best answer. You do not need to keep thinking to get an answer, just calm yourself down, and be still, and the answer will come.
There is actually so much that I wanted to say but I just couldn't find the right words.