Individuality ???

General discussion about the two books by Michel Desmarquet. Please ONLY post questions that do not fit in any of the available specialized forums.

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Adam
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12024Post Adam »

jonansoy wrote:Thanks Adam for your suggestion. However, there are also other sources that said that animal can reincarnate to human. Which one is right is hard to determine. Which one do you think is more correct?
Would you please share these other sources you're referring to?
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Robanan
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12026Post Robanan »

jonansoy,
Let's say I think Tom is more correct. How does that help you understand anything?

I always thought the concept of humans regressing into animals was unfair since I was 14, now I exactly know why. About animals progressing into humans, well... If humans don't regress to animals then we won't need to progress back to human so to speak and if a dog becomes so evolved, why it should turn into something else? why can't it become a better kind of dog on a better category than it existed before, and supporting a better ecosystem in a better nature that would aid evolving humans in those better categories much better? The result could only be much more fulfilling experiences of human-nature interactions, a much better learning environment... priceless is it not?
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Robanan
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12027Post Robanan »

And a word on individuality,

Have you ever felt love? was it good?
How about the ones you loved? did they feel the same?
You will never know...
Even if you could read their mind and see their aura... given that you are experienced enough in such matters, you'd only know what they are experiencing based on your own past experiences, so there's no way for you to experience the same exact feelings of anyone else other than yourself.
Somehow, I don't know how complete autonomy is spared for each individual being that is within the system explained in the book.
The essence of Consciousness, is the ability to Create, Process, Transmit and Receive Information Autonomously.
Krad
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12028Post Krad »

When you read someone's mind you aren't experiencing it on our own past experience, but rather copying it.
The only difference is, that it is not we, who create the thoughts, so for example we won't learn just because we copy someone's process, but we can, if we actually try to understand it.
You are right though, as what we sense is their exact thought, but if we want to understand it truly, we indeed need to use our own intellect.
And about complete autonomy, the privacy cannot be complete considering that information travels inside you and out you all the time. However one cannot change the way your intellect works, and that is what autonomy really means..
This comes from the nature of the intellect and I can't see why you said "I don't know how complete autonomy is spared"
jonansoy
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12032Post jonansoy »

Adam wrote:
jonansoy wrote:Thanks Adam for your suggestion. However, there are also other sources that said that animal can reincarnate to human. Which one is right is hard to determine. Which one do you think is more correct?
Would you please share these other sources you're referring to?
Dear Adam,

Below is one of the sources. Please correct me if I am wrong as my understanding maybe wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_realm
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Robanan
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12033Post Robanan »

You seem to have missed my point Krad, let me try and clarify,
When reading someone's mind, you are "reading" their thoughts (copying may happen during the procedure, I don't know), and you'll "know" what they are thinking about, my point is what you'll experience is something completely different from the person who is originally having those thoughts, take note that if you "know" what someone else is talking about (or thinking about) you have some degree of understanding of that person which happens almost instantly as you hear/read the person while this might not be something the person is experiencing. If translated into feelings what I mean is that someone may have thoughts about doing something bad to someone else and actually feeling joyful about it, when you read those thoughts, the feelings you might experience may range from compassion to dismay and anger based upon your own understanding.
Another example: Learning isn't exactly what everyone's doing all the time, so you might "read" thoughts for educational purposes but your subjects might not even be interested in learning anything at all based on the intent and purpose behind their thoughts which is also not something that pops out very often so you might not even know why they are having such thoughts so, let's say even when you are "truly understanding" someone else's thoughts what you will experience might be a "Pure Learning Experience and the related feelings of satisfaction" at best, while the other person might be craving for sex at the same time nourishing thoughts about it and exciting his/her self.
Regardless if we copy anything during the process, what I said above doesn't mean you can't relate to the thoughts of others, and based upon your understanding of what you are "reading" you might associate with similar [but not the same] feelings based upon how experienced you are in that specific case in question. Beware that the way you'll "handle" yourself after reading someone else's thoughts might change the whole experience for all parties involved which may very well lead to undesirable outcomes.
When I said "I don't know how complete autonomy is spared" I meant even though we seem to enjoy complete autonomy the math jonansoy did in his original post didn't seem exactly in favour of this observable fact. You are saying this is just the way our intellect works, giving us complete autonomy, and I agree it might be so, but I haven't thought through it completely yet, so I really don't know.
What do you guys think about the relation between autonomy and individuality?
The essence of Consciousness, is the ability to Create, Process, Transmit and Receive Information Autonomously.
Krad
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12035Post Krad »

Oh, I see I misunderstood you earlier, sorry.

jonansoy's math seem to lack and important fact that Michel said during one of his lecture, namely that the higher self also has a nucleos, so overally it diverse itself in ten parts.

he says it here at about the 9th minute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRMrw3yl ... re=related
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Robanan
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12036Post Robanan »

Interesting... Thanks Krad.
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Matt
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12038Post Matt »

jonansoy wrote:Dear all,

According to the Thiaoouba Prophecy book, I read that human share the higher self with 8 others on the planet. That means human is just part of his or her whole self. Since a person share higher self with 8 others and the higher self maybe the true self. Therefore, a person is not an individual. Correct me if I am wrong since my understanding is very limited.

Do the 9 persons somehow need to combine into one in order to achieve enlightenment or proceed to category nine or higher? What if between the 9 persons, some have good conducts and understanding whereby the some have bad conducts and limited understanding.
Just an example, an identical twins may share a same higher self. One of the twins have a superior understanding about the universe and the other don't have. Therefore, how is it justified?
Besides that, say there are 1 higher self in the highest category, then 9 higher self with 81 individual in the next level and 81 higher self and 729 astral body in the next. Does that means that everyone is from one individual since the higher self is the true self of one individual and higher higher self is the true true self of that individual and higher higher higher self is the true true true self of one individual?
What about animal? Does animal has a higher self and that animal is an individual or not?
Do human share higher self with animal?

Well, again, correct me if anything I type are wrong as I have very limited knowledge. Thanks.

To speak in mathematical terms, it is more of a fractal all leading back to a single point which is Tom Chalko's "great intellect." And yes, identical twins can have a different level of universal understanding.

We send information back to the Great Intellect via our higher selves, which communicate via their higher selves and it goes down the line. We all come from this single spirit but we are still all individuals just sending information back so that he too can learn from us. You can even think about it in terms of bacteria - a single one multiplied into trillions, all having the same identity as the first(but in this case, they all were born from the first also). In this earthly realm, we cannot communicate with him directly.

According to Thiaoouba Prophecy, animals do not have higher selves. They are merely 'robots' in that sense that no part of their being moves on after death other than their material bodies turning into earth.
jonansoy
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12041Post jonansoy »

According to Thiaoouba Prophecy, animals do not have higher selves. They are merely 'robots' in that sense that no part of their being moves on after death other than their material bodies turning into earth.
I read somewhere that animal do evolve. If they don't have any astral body and no part of their elements moves after life, does it means that they have no next life?
jonansoy
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12042Post jonansoy »

Krad wrote:Oh, I see I misunderstood you earlier, sorry.

jonansoy's math seem to lack and important fact that Michel said during one of his lecture, namely that the higher self also has a nucleos, so overally it diverse itself in ten parts.

he says it here at about the 9th minute
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRMrw3yl ... re=related
Dear Krad,

Thanks for the information. My understanding about the whole thing is very limited and I am confused. He said the higher self has 9 X 4 billion trillions electrons and a nucleous that consist of 9 X 4 billion trillions electrons. Total is 18 X 4 billion trillions electrons. Does he means that the higher self = 9 X astral body and a nucleous? If that is the case, it means that an astral body is a part of the higher self.

Please correct me if I am wrong.
jonansoy
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12043Post jonansoy »

Robanan wrote:What do you guys think about the relation between autonomy and individuality?
Dear Robanan,

What is the exact difference between autonomy and individuality? If there is no individuality, is there any autonomy?
ronald
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12045Post ronald »

Can someone tell where according to TP there was a writing on animals and higher selves, etc.
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Robanan
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12050Post Robanan »

No clue ronald
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Rezo
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Re: Individuality ???

Post: # 12055Post Rezo »

the below are relevant quotes I was able to find:

[p.163]

context of this discussion was human sexual compatibility, and fluidic/physical body connection.

"There you have a comparison between two of Nature’s creations. The first is quite a special being, possessing nine bodies, whereas the second possesses only three bodies. Evidently, the Creator has taken special care to place, within us, much more than a physical body."

No specific mention beyond this goes into details as far as which bodies animal does or does not possess, other than the below:

[p 165]:

"...a normal human Astral body contains approximately four billion, trillion electrons. These electrons have a life span of approximately ten billion, trillion of your years. They were created at the moment of creation. Your Astral body contains them and, when you die, nineteen per cent rejoin the electrons of the universe until required by Nature to form a new body or a new tree or animal, and the eighty one per cent rejoin your Higher-self."

[p:65, learning to live on another planet]:

" Every body - human, animal or mineral - possesses a field around itself. The human body, for example, is surrounded both by an Aura and by an etheric force (field) of oval shape. You know that, don't you?' "

Actually there was another reference that curiously mentions wall relief w/animals w/human heads, and humans w/animal heads [chimera?] when he observed Mu via the psychosphere. Of course this also can be seen in some stonework of Egypt [p. 97]:

"The walls of the room were of finely sculptured stone blocks, scenes of contemporary civilisation, with clusters of grapes which seemed transparent, fruits which I couldn't recognise and animals too - some of which had human heads. There were also human figures with the heads of animals."
" There is a single general space, a single vast immensity which we may freely call void: in it are unnumerable globes like this on which we live and grow, this space we declare to be infinite, since neither reason, convenience, sense-perception nor nature assign to it a limit."

-Giordano Bruno
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