Interesting talk with a sect

General discussion about the two books by Michel Desmarquet. Please ONLY post questions that do not fit in any of the available specialized forums.

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shezmear
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12407Post shezmear »

Yes I have never psychically assaulted anybody ...you know ? However I have had to move away from People that wanted to physically assault me.I used to have to work in a in the middle of a city at night time, it brought it`s fair share of people who thought they were 10 foot and bullet proof. It is a strange thing I don`t think I would move away from them any more.I don`t know I`m still in process with that...The thing is I have found in those sorts of things it never feels good, when all is said and done, and I think that is what we are left with at the end of our lives.
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
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shezmear
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12408Post shezmear »

ET I`ve given this some thought and this is were I got with it.

Indeed just be aware that you may be seeking to justify to maintain something or reject something biased on what you believe, to maintain what you believe.


Arrrr, yes of course but I was not maintaining what I believe, but what I have experienced, you see that slight of hand again?...what I believe as a pose to what I know.You see how you set your self up in the position were you raise doubt, were you play devils advocate.

You don`t know enough so you raise doubt.

You throw a questioning coin..A doubt raiser...I am either defending what I believe, or I am defining what I know. If I know then I don`t believe.

You see, you put me in a position were by I`m just like everyone else with a view , as though my view is based on what I like or dislike, as a pose to what I have I found.

You actually indirectly questioning my creditability...but it gets better...Not only are you questioning my creditability you have demonstrated none your self but you have done it in such a way that it is never questioned...it`s beautiful.. I do all the tooing and froing....what you do is sit in a position of questioning...Then when I call you on this..you say just be careful I may be trying to defending my beliefs to keep them all in place.

It`s a funny thing people do, they offer you advice...If I offered you advice on not to play on the road in case you get run over you would say, why are you offering me advice not to play on the road? I don`t play on the road?

What may be more accurate is I don`t really like the sound of what you are saying, so you must have a bias...

So the question to you is..what are you going to do with your beliefs? :rofl:

I think in all it is remarkable...
By their deeds shall you know them.
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ronald
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12409Post ronald »

I like your explanation :) , remarkable indeed.

All,
Can this topic not conclude?, or is there something else that needs discussion?
Rijzerlo
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12410Post Rijzerlo »

Well, before concluding, I still haven't gotten a clear answer about the opinions of other users for this woman to get a message. The point being that this woman hasn't the slightest knowledge of the earth and it's core, but still is able to speak about "the dynamo of the earth being broken" (Earths core unstable).

I posted a few of my conclusions, and even though the message could be false, she has pretty accurate pointers about the conditions of the earth which can't be distinguished by "closed" eyes.

So my question again: Why would a this cult leader get such a revealing message even though she moves on an invalid path, only leading to more confusion among people. What possible reason could there be for that?
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ET-1
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12411Post ET-1 »

shezmear,

Indeed, I frame it to raise doubt; regarding the question if what you know to be happens to be. I could be more blunt and tell you that the experience you know, in part, stems from what you choose to believe to be, that in fact you are entrapped in a cult based on what you believe to be. Evidently as explained earlier in this thread the more blunt approach would like lead into slamming close the dialogue door in my nose.... and other more subtle complications. When we consider we each are entrapped in a cult based on what we believe to be and seek ways to know what be independent of beliefs we may discover how the belief language in uses biases what we hold to be and what we are willing to explore. If you so desire will explain this in much more detail... it refers to a dialogue that lasted over a year seeking to jointly explore and expand knowledge management discipline. In the end the dialogue fizzled because the other did not want to continue as their belief prevented further exploration.

BTW I like the analysis you put forth regarding 'credibility', though it reminds me of a fallacious appeal to authority; You are right about me having done what I have done in such a way that credibility is never questioned... nor appealed to... as we wonder and ponder about what we hold to be ... well sort of... and how it relates to what happens to be... as we seek to cultivate and create stuff...

What am I going to do with my beliefs? well keep the ones that be beneficial and change the ones that aren't.

ronald poses the question "Can this topic not conclude?, or is there something else that needs discussion"?

As I see it, the thread focuses on beliefs held, claims made, interpretations, resulting realities... and reflecting what is said to others into oneself. Maybe each has a revealing message that when properly perceived enriches understanding of each and all... I wonder if the reference about "the dynamo of the earth being broken" (Earths core unstable) made by the woman corresponds to the perceived reference made. I have seen conversations where each be talking about different stuff...

cheers et
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shezmear
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12412Post shezmear »

Well, before concluding, I still haven't gotten a clear answer about the opinions of other users for this woman to get a message. The point being that this woman hasn't the slightest knowledge of the earth and it's core, but still is able to speak about "the dynamo of the earth being broken" (Earths core unstable).

I posted a few of my conclusions, and even though the message could be false, she has pretty accurate pointers about the conditions of the earth which can't be distinguished by "closed" eyes.

So my question again: Why would a this cult leader get such a revealing message even though she moves on an invalid path, only leading to more confusion among people. What possible reason could there be for that?

This is a good question because it highlights apparent contradictions.I found that we are all contradictions.Rather it is our nature to want to see one thing as all of one thing or all of another rather then both.This was brought to my attention years by a teacher and I have found it readily through life.She can be right and wrong.Right about something and well off about others.Also note how we like to see people as one thing or the other.As a pose to both.Most of the time I also find out sooner or latter with people that they are both, right and wrong good and bad.

I have to deal with people that a kind heated and can hold a conversation and we can agree on a lot of things yet they believe in some 48 000 year old man who does miracles which puts them in the basket of brainwashed, well not only brain washed but a bit strange.It is strange to sit at a table with someone and talk with them and them seem normal then you discover their, well boarding on crazy.Not in the crazy crazy sense but , harboring a very strange bunch of believes.

And I guess to other side although I do not talk about my views on life the universe and everything to other people I`m sure some may see me as strange , the only thing is I have researched and continue to do so I think what I see maybe based on some level of truth.

ET your doing it again.Again your trying to come back for another go.I`ll give you some advice which you wont or can`t take.Go join a cult spend a year or two and then come back and tell us all about it.Your beginning to remind me of a guy called Alisma, he masqueraded as a deep thought, was openly offensive.He backed it up on word play that it is just someones ego that is offended.You need to look at what is making you to continue with this course of action.

You see here we go again...If you so desire will explain this in much more detail... it refers to a dialogue that lasted over a year seeking to jointly explore and expand knowledge management discipline

It`s bait and switch, you want to take me on a little run around as a way to prove or rail road me into some of your notions.

Again..Let me be clear, I don`t need to do the work... you do. :rofl: GOOD LUCK!!!
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
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shezmear
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12413Post shezmear »

Actually ET second thoughts forget what I have just written, this is getting silly now, I`m over thinking it. :sail:
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
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ET-1
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12415Post ET-1 »

shezmear,

your doing it again too.... Yes, indeed I am seeking to have another go at this dialogue and focus on how beliefs affect our perceptions because I find it enriching, entertaining and fun... BTW 'blaming me for doing something' while you do what you do again for whatever reason reinforcers the idea I hold and am seeking to jointly explore. You even propose I go off into a quest where I may get lost never to be heard from again. This has many underlying subtle ramifications to keep intact what you hold rather than explore some possibilities and realities. A followup more direct avoidance strategy is quite evident to mr in the statement " I don`t need to do the work... you do".

BTW FWIIW the - bait and switch to rail road you into some of my notions was actually something quite different. I pointed at something and told you that I was aware that to better understand it we might have to jointly explore it in more detail. If you wanted to do that I told you I was willing to do it. If you didn't want to do that thats fine with me. 'how the belief language in uses biases what we hold to be and what we are willing to explore" seems to me to be at the core of talking with a sect member. Oh and do recall what I said "When we consider we each are entrapped in a cult based on what we believe to be and seek ways to know what be independent of beliefs we may discover..." how to better interact with sect members. That is if we want to explore that route... then again maybe we don't really want to find out, least we discover we be harboring a very strange bunch of believes.
:rofl:

Cheers et
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shezmear
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12416Post shezmear »

I thought I said never mind?

Can't help your self?

You See A.E.T, one of this things that is happening here is your feeding off this, Like a game.

What you have is verbal hobby.

Explore what together?

A.E.T`s wonderful view of the universe.100 % mind stuff, make sure you get big spoon, this *** goes down easy!..if your into semantics.

Fact: You is have no experiences in Cults hell, I don't even know why your still talking, and to make matters worse, trying to berate me into thinking like your self then when I refuse I then am afraid or something to the effect of " to
change my beliefs" is laughable. And that is what it boils down to.

Unless you going to offer something that is workable to the topic then you may be off on your own tangent, well may is not really cutting it, you are on your own tangent as I have said before this is really about you.

I sent you a PM.

GOOD LUCK!!! :rofl:
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
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shezmear
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12417Post shezmear »

And this sort of thing, " how to better interact with sect members. That is if we want to explore that route... then again maybe we don't really want to find out, least we discover we be harbouring a very strange bunch of believes.

And of course lets not forget coming from the the smoke and mirror man himself. Who....wait for it...said ..

regarding 'credibility', though it reminds me of a fallacious appeal to authority; You are right about me having done what I have done in such a way that credibility is never questioned... nor appealed to..

So... (a)from what possible basis do you offer anything in relation to the topic at hand that has any weight?(b) Then go on to imply that the only person so far on the forum who has been heavy involved with sects, hell even religions does not know what they are talking about, and that in fact they are harboring a bunch of strange believes?

Consider this, Imagine going to surgeon. Not only does he have no experience in the chosen field, he see`s no reason to mention that he has no experience. ..hang on...it gets better, he then go goes on to discredit the only other surgeon you have been to who has experience in the info your looking for.

Would you let him operate on you?

If no, Why not?

ET mate you seem to break some of the fundamental rules of intelligent discussion while inventing your own all in the same paragraph.

Next you'll be saying there are not need for rules, standards, standards are after all just notions..yep?..

And this is the punch line, all you have is to discredit me...because you have no other solid bases of an argument let along anything to contribute.

E.T your actually the one who is to not only trying to maintain a serious of strange beliefs but then attempting to get other people to take them up, make no mistake about that.

Rijzerlo... I hope I could offer something on your topic.In the end, every human being has the birth right to live as they please, Even if it is harmful to them.I try and do unto others because I realize that ultimately just like I needed to they are learning in their own way.It takes time for People to understand., so I respect that.Free will is a big deal when you get down to it.
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
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ronald
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12418Post ronald »

Just a general comment.
I have enjoyed and learned a lot from the discussion and find the topic title is living up to its intentions.
There is a chess like manner in this discussion which is not often seen and explained.

At this moment I can not imagine how the discussion can continue without becoming repetitive.
I think I'm saturated.. :sail:
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ET-1
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12419Post ET-1 »

shezmear,

Actually it is you who claims to know what the next thing I will be saying rather than asking. Me I would say that there is a need for rules, and standards and in some cases it basically boils down to what one chooses to believe, maybe the fact will change what you believe and maybe what you believe will change the facts. Imagine that you actually believe the surgeon that appeals to their authority instead of deciding for the better course of action that someone just mentioned because you believed one instead of the other.

BTW have you noticed that it is you who has chosen the punch line and how it reflects what you are seeking to do to me rather than jointly focusing and exploring the core topic. You like me are attempting to get people to take a serious of beliefs. I dropped a 'strange' adjective you used because the label can be associated as negative. I also perceive a sort of 'negative' emotional response in your post, upset ticked off, please validate this. Know that isn't my intent at all. We both are seeking to get the other to embrace what each holds though with slightly different approaches and likely for different reasons. I propose we focus on what it takes to talk with a sect member and get them to realize and embrace better beliefs.

You aks me:
a)from what possible basis do you offer anything in relation to the topic at hand that has any weight?

from my own, each can learn the veracity of what I say and what you say according to its correlation to what be. That I question wonder and ponder about this or that should be taken as an opportunity to jointly explore this or that instead of taking it personal... who knows maybe in the process the master will realize they be the apprentice with the apprentice as both learn from each other and with each other

(b) Then go on to imply that the only person so far on the forum who has been heavy involved with sects, hell even religions does not know what they are talking about, and that in fact they are harboring a bunch of strange believes?

We all harbor a bunch of strange beliefs and a bunch of good beliefs ultimately each needs to embrace and cultivate the good ones to realize and appreciate life in a sustainable-desirable-congruent way of being. thus the proposal to focus on what it takes to talk with a sect member and get them to realize and embrace better beliefs. With your apple espoused experience this should be a peace of cake for you. Here is a point that might be worth exploring: Have you ever had to change a primary belief you believed and embrace to an alternate belief? What was required for you to give up what you believed to embrace the other belief? If thats too personal then focus on the general issue what does it take to change a primary belief someone believes and embrace an alternate belief? What is required for someone to give up what they believe to embrace other belief?

Cheers et
Rijzerlo
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12420Post Rijzerlo »

Yes, as it seems this topic is sailing a bit of of its course :sail:

To continue, if I may, on the fact that we are contradictory as suppose to the fact that this woman getting accurate messages with her being possibly a danger to a large amount of people. Let's think of this:

The woman is right, within a year there will be a large earthquake, the biggest part of Holland (where she and I live) will be divulged by water, leaving a small area still liveable, the village where I live (as she received in her first message). Then there will be a lot, and I mean a lot!, of people falling victim to her prophecy, perhaps calling her a prophet while they are at it. And mankind ones again falls into the spiral of misinformation and mis-interpretation.

Calling the contradictory fact forward, she has indeed some thoughts that are good. Living more of nature and trying to pull people together with their noses in the same direction. Only problem being that she does it for absolute wrong reasons. Why do I think this? She closes people off who are unwilling to follow her exact ways, calling them of Satan. Her explaining that we can only live our lives by crawling through the dirt and waiting for someone to come and save us from ourselves. (the more I think about it, the more stupid it sounds), she calls her way the only way and there are absolutely no other options.

Sure she could be partly right, partly, but she should know better. Now we get a true prediction, for the wrong reasons, there will be more brainwashed and we will continue our little cycle until the next stupid action we perform being human. I'm really hoping that she couldn't be more wrong with her prediction, but the second message "dynamo being broken" contradicts that
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ronald
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12421Post ronald »

p 167.
It is very bad to know the future
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ET-1
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Re: Interesting talk with a sect

Post: # 12422Post ET-1 »

Rijzerlo,

Lets focus on what you proposed... paraphrasing it (seeking a slightly different vantage point and to verify if what I understood corresponds to what you meant)

Getting the right answer for absolute wrong reasons reinforcing the belief of doing it right instead of the realization of what be right, possibly leads to falling into a delusion.
To closes people off who are unwilling to accept certain propositions is less desirable than an open door policy which encourages wondering and pondering about stuff.

I like the notion of getting a true prediction even if for the wrong reasons as we continue to cycle into learning the truth about stuff over getting it all wrong. Indirectly I consider that in a way this has to do with the means vs the ends philosophical postulate; which I hold biases us towards one VS the other way of thinking instead of towards one AND the other way of thinking. I say we focus and cultivate what be right while transforming and correcting what be wrong into what be right.

Cheers et

pd your post allowed me to better understand the :sail: icon... topic as sailing a bit of of its course ... well lets stir it into its course rather than allowing it to go off on a tangent.
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