Thinking too far?

General discussion about the two books by Michel Desmarquet. Please ONLY post questions that do not fit in any of the available specialized forums.

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ronald
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12470Post ronald »

A single thought CANNOT save or destroy a planet.

If that would be possible, no cooperation among people and the grouping of individuals will be needed.
In fact we wouldn't be here talking about it; Either because the planet had been destroyed or that we had learned to live in peace and no more needed discussion on such topic.

p 164.
‘There is only one solution, as Arki told you - the grouping of individuals.
Study the single-thought saving concept, like the single hero saving the day in a movie, for example.
I found it closely related to victim mentality, to express it mildly ;)

Again p 164.
don’t tell me that is so difficult
But apparently it is thought to be difficult by many of us. Since it is said to be not difficult, you might wonder about the missing ingredient, what is it that is missed out until now?
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Rezo
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12471Post Rezo »

wow haha deek jackson's a funny guy! [his nibiru/etc joke]. thanks.

the missing ingredient is .... im going to call it 'coordinated imaginative healthy resourcefulness'. using words to describe may make sense or serve to divide. so i might venture to say the ingredient may instead be something like empathic telepathy...? <shrug>
Rijzerlo
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12473Post Rijzerlo »

I agree with that, a single thought can't save the world, however it can set in motion the saving of the Earth because of the "domino-effect of the mind". Jesus quoted this: "It only takes one mind to create everything, that's all it ever did..." (The phrase could be slightly different).

Within that fashion, it only takes one great intellect to be able to induce others to look in the same, right direction. Thus you could say that a single thought could save humanity, but it takes a lot of other individuals to execute that single thought. That is what Arki meant, also when explaining only a small number of protestors were needed to create an uproar throughout the entire country.

This is not difficult to do ourselves if we want to take down major oil-companies. Now we only need to find a few protestors willing to give up their lives for a cleaner future :wink:

Meanwhile I think Rezo is on the right track here. But this empathic telepathy has to stem from someone the entire populations trusts, or who is able persuade the people (However persuasion has a lot in common with sect-leaders, so I don't think it will that effective). All we need is planting a seed in a group that is large enough to conduct this empathic telepathy, even if they don't know they are doing it.

p.s. ET, I miss-interpretated the reaper part, I thought you meant it in sense of reaper: Someone who thinks the end is at hand and is spreading fear among people with that statement.
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ronald
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12474Post ronald »

You might as well use collective illusion or Abracadabra
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Rezo
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12476Post Rezo »

well i should have explained better, its not easy to say. its a mindset, not to be done alone but for each of us, as we organize within community groupings. im definitely not suggesting to only sit back and imagine good things, and wait for anyone else - of course, creating good mindset does not occur in a vaccuum, but takes work and learning from failures...but for motivation/focus/insprationally, it seems theres not a lot of it to go around in order to make things happen, be the change, etc.

problem as for while still is, many social actions which bravely take on important issues and socalled leaders or corporate 'rulers', either primarily do it through 'groveling' to the state/corp., or making paper demands aka petitioning, requiring funding to scrape by, and/or by means of conflict with it, through provocateuring in a small way [small # of people] that ends w/some kind of violence [often times infiltrated by alphabet agencies]. of course education and outreach exist through documentary screenings. and that can be a good thing....but I agree, something is missing.

i think my idea had something to do w/choosing best individuals for networking/representation, across different movements, that communicate *with each other* but are not co-opted by the many machinations of propaganda or 'controlled' ideology, *can* well serve to raise awareness if trust and trustworthiness hold up. But to even get there, requires solid motivation and some kind of 'peaceful plan.' The internet is good for that but for how long?? more and more censorship 'crawls' to the surface.

in a sense, it may appear to be 'waiting for someone to do something.' in another its, identifying those who can best help in terms of holding or 'officiating' public/community meetings, NOT in order to concentrate power, but to focus better and reduce distraction while having a forum for all perspectives. (ideally, of course - because most of us want that as a given). This was meant to be a way to do in concert with action and discussion, rather than an isolated 'key' component. Everythings important, I think. Its like parts that make up a whole [shrug].

in this context, a shared way of thinking [through coming to own conclusions happening to be very similar] can be a powerful catalyst, in that of once the realization first of what is truly happening and what peaceful free clean happy ideal etc. or at least 'better' place, that we want to see - are aware to be different at present, and then of what options we have, beyond the polarized groveling/fundraising or arguing/ignoring the state, can empower people. I keep thinking theres got to be some sort of 'plan' of that last part, but it keeps getting 'fuzzy'. because so much needs to happen 1st. and yet info. overload at a start can discourage lot of people, ive found. perhaps just 'doing it' [start local meetings] and seeing what happens, is how to do it!
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12477Post Rijzerlo »

So you are thinking of a form of high council?

I think before creating a place where representatives communicate on a level plain, we first need to take down a few of the rotten fruits. These being basically all governments, oil companies, everyone with a paycheck that is far above average, the big food supplying companies (sounds strange but they are effectively destroying the value of their own product), all obsolete industrial companies (waisting tons of energy to make stupid products nobody cares about), with no exception every military force on earth, and the list goes on and on...

There's no way any change will occur without a mayor cleanup. We have followed each other into the ridiculous like the saying: "If one sheep goes over the dam, the rest will follow".

How can we take down all this rot? We can't. Majority of the stupid is indestructible and continuous at all times (at least on our plain).

If you look at the bigger picture, a cataclysm would actually be doing us a favor. Takes the pressure off. If not enough people will be able to wake up and take control of a better, cleaner and more healthier future, we will be faced with our consequences. I stand behind that theory.
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ronald
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12478Post ronald »

Is it not more helpful to be faced with the consequences, enduring them to the extremest possible?
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12479Post ET-1 »

When we focus and cultivate the ways of life... the rotten fall of their own and becomes a fertilizer of the new life.
When looking at the bigger picture, the bad seeks to deceive us into believing that it be doing us a favor instead of doing us bad.
Who in the right mind would actually choose the bad and suffer forever, when they can choose the good and enjoy forever?
The way to turn a ship around involves taking small changes... As a friend used to tell me, the big difference actually stems from the small differences.
BTW note that the 'ridiculous' keeps the 'ridiculous' flow because as the sheep gets to the boarder they are ahead of the rest though only to be pushed by the ones behind them and who replace them to be the nexts at the front to be pusehed out of the way.

Cheers et

pd gtg will continue latter
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12480Post ET-1 »

What be more helpful?

- suffer the consequences to the extremest possible and consider oneself justified
- mercifully be forgiven from suffering the consequences to the extremest possible and consider oneself divinely graced
- joyfully learn the better ways of being, acting by learning and doing in the best possible way, without ever having to resort to fear, that is always resorting to love, peace, understanding, mercy, wisdom.

BTW we will be faced with the consequences independent of these being good or bad... and its up to us to choose what to do with them.

cheers et
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Rezo
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12481Post Rezo »

i was just saying we can benefit our lives more, by at least to take certain steps. survival things, free media sharing / information, with people in our areas. i guess something along the lines of organizing for purposes of sharing information. not so much 'high council' but more like priorities we each would all do [everybody]. but yeah, a networking structure at some point those with skills for things would spontaneously 'come forth'. its easier if the situation dealing with is basic, like how to build a shelter. different people would do different tasks, etc.

its easier when consequences occur, and also maybe not - i'm def. on board about getting the pressure off, but imo we need to be careful of 1. wording [govt interpretation/response of whats said/done], 2. how to do it. the earth may just be doing it now, only problem is, who will remain? maybe it cant be counted on that those awake/aware will be left after [at least in global networking sense - which in some ways may help in longterm but may also hurt in terms of needed aid]. I was also concerned that once a big natural disaster may happen, there would be so much busy activity, just to survive.

of course, as certain nuclear weapon exhcanges on other worlds mentioned in the book, elites for most part i believe it was said, actually didnt fare as well even thoguh they probably had best tools [perhaps b/c they didnt share and work together in tough situations]. So theres something to be said of not being afraid, letting things happen and it will happen once nature flows how it must.

I suppose after hearing about Arkis world, and about various groups here Im involved with some environmental stuff, not just for petitions but talking to public interacting peacefully/proactively, not from ego but from shared experience level, you know, meeting others and talking about these things...i dont go often but its made me some good friends for similar conversations as we have here.
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12482Post ET-1 »

Indeed certain steps individuals take can benefit our lives (or not). I see we are facing a crux point where individuals, families, communities and all of humanity will choose the way forward... Be it this way or that way! The core key resides on the skill sets each holds and provides to ensure the realization of best possible future. Some crucial skills that we should have well developed by now have to do with how to organize and how do we choose what to do. In principle one sole voice of truth should suffice to constrain the slanderous ways of deception and delusion, in practice its a bit more complicated, especially when the voice of truth and the voice of deception appear practically identical to each other. Some desires the truth to be known, some fear the truth be known, some desire to continue with usurping charlatan ways while some desire the better ways to be. How to choose between what appears to be because it is and what appears to be because it appears to be but isn't? Now thats the real question

Yes we need to be careful of the wording, what is thought, and done. There is a significant difference in having consequences occur and dealing with the situation and dealings of the situation to have consequences occur. The voice of truth be known, both the means and the ends matter... both the destination and the way to get there matters! Far from being a matter between the individual vs the community its a matter of the individual, the community and a bit more.

In a way there be but a single way forward, only one road, question is are we heading in the right direction or the wrong direction? Do we know how to share and work together in all situations? I believe you are in the right track when you state "public interacting peacefully/proactively, not from ego but from shared experience level, you know, meeting others and talking about these things..." Personally I seem to arouse strong ego responses rather than build good friendships. I need to change somethings

cheers et
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12484Post Rijzerlo »

I really don't think we will have a lot of options when a serious cataclysm occurs. There is just "survival of the fittest" (the fittest being not only the strongest in muscle but even stronger in mind, intelligence). I can say for a fact that most people in western civilization lack even the most basic skills when it comes to survival. I see little hope for these people. Not to blame them for being ignorant, but they are, we are all to blame for this structural ignorance. It has indeed worried me about those who will remain, will they be intelligent enough? Or will they start to follow the next false doctrine as soon as it pops up. Being a little bit further now I realize these worries are unnecessary, things happen because they have to happen (God doesn't play dice).

And we are definitely heading in the wrong direction. There is absolutely no doubt about that. The only thing is, we are meant to go in this direction to get optimal learning experiences from them. It's not for nothing we are a planet of sorrow. So to keep on topic of this thread: We are rightly heading in the wrong direction.

"Humankind has underdeveloped itself in an environment that is designed for optimal conditions"

But looking at nature and the Universe for that matter, we see that it has been designed to be a self-correcting, self-improving system. Wherein the stupid sooner or later cause their own destruction, while those intelligent enough will improve themselves.
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12485Post ET-1 »

Why do you claim that there is only "survival of the fittest"? Seems to me that The Divine has a crucial part in who actually survives! Just remember the 'christian' joke 'God will save me"! for God does works in 'mysterious' ways and we need to recognize and accept the help, and be ready to move to save the day. Even-though at the time we may not understand something, be stupidly ignorant, we may still unknowingly head in the right direction and then come to realize the caring guiding director play!

If with little hope and little faith and little knowledge mountains can be moved imagine what could be accomplished with abundant hope faith and knowledge!

I wonder and ponder if things happen because they have to happen or because of the choices made. For example I believe Jesus Christ came to save us through sowing us the way of divine love... this could be accomplished in many ways, say by us just embracing the way of divine love and moving on with, in and through divine love's way. I recall a distinct passage where Jesus instructs the satan to get behind Him. If we look at the crucifixion we can focus on Jesus Christ, the cross behind him, what is behind each, what we choose to focus on and more. To me the suffering and sacrifice actually stem from 'evil deceptions' that wants suffering instead of happiness. Christs is given to us, to save us, we choose to care for him or do something else. sacrifice isn't needed to show love, unfortunately many measure love by the sacrifices made. Ups sort of got onto a tangent there, the key point is that our survival may actually come about and ultimately depend on God's plans and our actions. Even our freedom to choose stems from God's graces. Let me know if I need to elaborate and write the 'christian' joke 'God will save me"! ...

I believe we can know and understand the way of divine love by learning, experiencing and living the way of divine love. I also hold that there is "survival of the graceful".

Indeed "looking at nature and the Universe for that matter, we see that it has been designed to be a self-correcting, self-improving system. Wherein the stupid sooner or later cause their own destruction...", by learning a thing or two... "... while those intelligent enough will improve themselves"... so long they keep wondering and pondering about stuff.

cheers et
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12494Post shezmear »

Rijzerlo wrote:Lately I've had numerous discussions with my father over the concept Tom and Michel are presenting. Where I believe most of these matters, my father has the urge to disagree with every other idea that is new to him, creating doubt about every subject.

When for example trying to explain the reason for this Universe to be created and the start of everything as told by Tom, there is immediately a comment in the liking of: "And before that?"

So I keep bending backwards and forwards about the length we should be looking back at. Maybe we are thinking too difficult here? Is the matter as it is and no further than that? Or is there much more to explore after every door we open (I do believe this to be true, since our Universe expands so much and has been repeated for a number we perhaps can't even imagine)

At what level can someone truly be satisfied with the knowledge that is given to him. Besides the fact that it is good to try and look beyond, to what factor do we need to raise questions? I am a fairly positive and easily trusting person, but my father is quite the opposite. How to satisfy someone so irrational about his own doubts? I feel I keep going in loops when trying to explain to such an doubtful person?

And a very ugly question I keep hearing is: "And if, so what?"

How to respond respectfully to such a question? (up till now I just let people with that response in their value and do not continue discussions)

Anyone got any good comments on this?
I have both encountered this in my self and other people, I like to be not in the past not in the future but in the always, I like absolutes.The facts, the truth even if it is considered ugly.
People that play these little games or verbal hobbies or the devils advocate are into semantics which is really a waste of everyone's time.Its like trying to play a game with some that is not following the rules, can you really play such a game? any game? Tennis , soccer, foot ball?", golf? or does it become about something else, it`s actually an abuse.

Philosophy is only as good and necessary as it translates into some workable action which relates to the grand design of the universe.

To deal with certainty and beliefs because they are different, put some money in your wallet, be sure how much it is, then ask the person if they know how much is in there, can they be certain?, Fact there is a real definite amount of money in your wallet, no question, your knowledge is certain 100%.So you can be certain, can you be certain about other things?,yes providing your inquiry is adequate.

How many people do you now that have sought the answer to the meaning of life for say 12 months, 8 hours a day?

What about 36 months or 72 months?, yet that work at their jobs for 20 years.

They then stand around and make apparent intelligent arguments about life the universe and everything from what basis?

Its like a village of natives telling you when you visit their village and talk of planes and sky scrappers that they think you are crazy and tell you accordingly.This actually happens by the way.

Na, the answers are there for the willing to seek and find, and those that can`t see it are suffering from many things one of them being laziness...

In fact I was once so intent on trying to understand life I wanted to voluntarily end my life for some time and be brought back to life, I could not find anyone that wanted to participate in my little experiment.The Russians did through dry fasting.I though well if I die that is o.k I`m positive I have lived before and in the event that I am heavy deluded and I`m just living once then I`m really just speeding up the process that being death.And any meaning I attribute to life is really my own and there is no grand plan.Which to me makes no sense.How am I to live then?,what am I? guided by my desire for food, sleep and sex, which is not really my desire but natures desire I wonder through the world a beggar to my senses.That is no life.For the most part I`m better then that.

The hardest thing to fathom is that 99.999999999999999999% of the world is utterly, utterly asleep and in denial, that is more earth shattering and disturbing then life after death the immortality of consciousness and intelligent design.

How many of us like the idea that we exist because someone wanted to feel something and that everything we feel is sent back through the filters of HS`s back to the source that we are in fact little feelers that allow the creator to take in experiences.It literary phone tapes and listens into our consciousness, feels what we feel.

Kind of makes you feel a bit used doesn't it?

And what sort of intelligence is that?, well it`s as vast as the universe is vast and then some.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQouX5U0fc

:sail:
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
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ronald
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Re: Thinking too far?

Post: # 12495Post ronald »

just give and receive, nothing special ;)
If I would be the 1st to give, I'd logically do the same. After all, there is nothing else to be done.

I would not feel used, I rather see it as autonomously balanced.
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