Material Vs Spiritual knowledge

General discussion about the two books by Michel Desmarquet. Please ONLY post questions that do not fit in any of the available specialized forums.

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Ptah
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Material Vs Spiritual knowledge

Post: # 12672Post Ptah »

When speaking of the river of oblivion Thao states that all material knowledge is erased. So there must be different types of knowledge eg; a spiritual one.
So what is material knowledge, everything i learn in this life, eg: maths, science and who my mum and dad are etc; ? So what accounts for spiritual knowledge, knowing something to your core. A feeling there is a god, a higher purpose in life, doing good for others ? or is it instinctual ? And why would this not be erased ?

I find this interesting as when Thao was talking about Jesus and how one 9th level soul went into the baby Jesus passing through the river of oblivion, erasing all material knowledge. He could not have pro-formed any miracles. The other 9th level soul completely avoiding it going into a 30 year old, ready made human body to become the Jesus we know. This implies, healing the sick, levitation creating wine from water is learned material knowledge. Most of these so called miracles have happened many times after Jesus had come and gone. Was it by chance that these saints and mystics pro-formed these psychic talents after years of a particular discipline that there were un-aware of doing, would result in say levitation. This means these abilities can be learned again.

But this doesn't answer what spiritual knowledge is. Having the strength in knowing something regardless of the circumstances and surroundings, is that what spiritual knowledge is ? Is it that which not can be undone ? But at the same time isn't that instinct at one particular level ?

Anyway i'd like to read/hear, peoples thoughts on this. This will be my last post for some considerable amount of time, family and other pressures are driving me away. But i thank you for your insights.
Mlody
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Re: Material Vs Spiritual knowledge

Post: # 12673Post Mlody »

Very intresting post, the way I see it or at least understand is that Material knowledge is everything that is made from atoms. So anything that can effect atoms of a physical body e.g healing or levitation is still a change in atoms and therefore matter.
With spiritual knowledge, it's more complex of a idea and in my opinion; in order to see this spiritual knowledge is to look at kids at the youngest age before they have been affected by the whole masquerade of media, culture, and even upbringing.
With higher level of material consciousness/knowledge the spiritual consciousness/knowledge disapeares into the subconsious and therefore ignored. The second I read the line "So what accounts for spiritual knowledge, knowing something to your core" I got this thought that Spiritual knowledge is the true instinct, the gut feeling we get from time to time; something that stirs or directs us in situations we have never been or seen before with material knowledge.

I'm sorry if this is confusing but I found it really difficult to express in words.
ronald
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Re: Material Vs Spiritual knowledge

Post: # 12674Post ronald »

add to that, the role of the higher self.
Mlody
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Re: Material Vs Spiritual knowledge

Post: # 12675Post Mlody »

Only the higher self can tell u its role ;) ;)

I think that the higher self is the teacher but at the same time the student. Helps by guiding but also learns from each 1/9th soul.

I'll think of a better way to explain it later after much more considerations, I just didn't want the idea to escape me.
Molot
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Re: Material Vs Spiritual knowledge

Post: # 13049Post Molot »

This topic is very interesting but unfortunately not explained in TP.

What I don't understand is on page 143 Thao has these two quotes (perhaps not word for word but as Michael interpreted/remembered them):
‘As you know, an Astral body being reincarnated as a baby, passes through ‘The
River of Oblivion’ and his earlier material knowledge is effaced. Therefore, the
child born in Bethlehem would not have been able to perform ‘miracles’ even if
he lived to 100 years of age. However, he was a superior being, like Moses.
and also on page 143
...Jesus was a human being inhabited by a highly
evolved Astral body. And yet, even if he had studied in the very advanced
schools on Earth, amongst the Nagas, for example, he never could have acquired
the knowledge to revive the dead or cure the sick.
To me this means that even the 9th level Astral Body being born in a 1st level Physical Body would not have had enough time/'assistance' to develop material knowledge to perform 'miracles'.
Perhaps at that time no one had the knowledge and therefore, no one could teach Jesus.

However on page 43, Thao says this:
‘The people managed to develop their psychic abilities enormously. Many were
able to travel short distances by means of levitation, and telepathy resumed its
significance in their lives, becoming commonplace. There were also frequent
instances of physical ailments being cured by the laying on of hands.
So, why couldn't Jesus(not Aarioc), having a 9th level astral body, develop enough to learn how to levitate, cure the sick...etc. ?

I guess this goes back to Ptah's question of what is material knowledge, and why it was impossible for Jesus to acquired 'the knowledge'
"The danger does not lie in the death of the physical body, as millions believe: the danger exists in the way in which one lives"-Thao
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Rezo
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Re: Material Vs Spiritual knowledge

Post: # 13053Post Rezo »

its very simple. there were two separate missions, to be accomplished in specific ways. one's, was the prequel to the other. An 'avatar body' is much different than natural rebirth. No river of oblivion...

Culturally we are taught there was one 'Jesus', not two. And there's certainly no shortage of other claims of this identity...

My 'condensed summary' is, Aarioc had a transfer of its consciousness, while living, into a host body which was created by fellow Thaori, to accommodate 'him', [just hard to say 'it', for me] while remaining in full awareness of what he could do, and what was supposed to happen ... whereas J1 [the one implanted into Mary via hypnosis, p.140], did not remember his past existence [because he was physically born, and consciousness underwent 'standard' pre-life higher self discussions and river of 'sort of' oblivion].

recall as with moses rebirth to earth - although he was coming back via choosing with free will, from consulting with this higher self then, and would forget a lot, the astral body is ''charged'' with all its past experience [p.138]. I liken J1, to this as example of his overall situation. Even though it was via embryo 'implantation' , it underwent natural birth and consciousness placement requirements. Its reasonable to assume people of Thiaoouba who were watching earth, choose Judea for an important reason, knowing where to have such birth happen [geographically, politically, etc] to 'help' him along.
" There is a single general space, a single vast immensity which we may freely call void: in it are unnumerable globes like this on which we live and grow, this space we declare to be infinite, since neither reason, convenience, sense-perception nor nature assign to it a limit."

-Giordano Bruno
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bomohwkl
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Re: Material Vs Spiritual knowledge

Post: # 13056Post bomohwkl »

There are hints about what are the things which are not erased from "river of oblivion"

[quote]However, he was a superior being, like Moses. This
is proven, by the way he astonished temple doctors at the age of twelve. Like the
very young people now on Earth, who are called [b]geniuses[/b] because they seem to
have a calculation in their heads, Jesus was a human being inhabited by a highly
evolved Astral body. And yet, even if he had studied in the very advanced
schools on Earth, amongst the Nagas, for example, he never could have acquired
the knowledge to revive the dead or cure the sick[/quote]

[quote]As you also know, a group of Hebrews travelled with Joseph, son of Jacob, into
Egypt, where they established a line, only to end up being hated by the Egyptians
and always for the same unstated reasons - their [b]intelligence[/b] and, particularly,
their[b] solidarity[/b] in the face of adversity.[/quote]

[quote]‘The Spirit - the [b]Superior Intelligence[/b] decided to create the worlds and he
commanded to four superior forces...[/quote]

In my opinion, it is the ability to understand something fast...
Greg
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Re: Material Vs Spiritual knowledge

Post: # 13067Post Greg »

Quoting bomohwkl:
In my opinion, it is the ability to understand something fast...
Basically this.

Material knowledge means "data". Spiritual knowledge is how your self is arranged/programmed in order to process data. So there is still nothing you are going to "remember" with spiritual knowledge, but certain basic lessons like being nice to others will become obvious to you much quicker than otherwise.

And then there is the whole other issue where Thao said Michel would NEVER forget the visions he had in astral body. So apparently the river of oblivion is not absolute...
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