Prophecies, Metaphors and Symbolism (from: 'Why 1987?')

[Zark]

** From Bastian: this discussion started originally in another thread titled Why 1987? **

Astrology has little to do with the reality of the universe. Clouding your mind with symbolism is very dangerous to the conscious evolution. All those things don't demostrate any understanding at all, simply just lack of it.

I kind of disagree about symbolism. I am still considering what you said though, so I will take some time to think about it.

Buddhists use rituals which are a symbolic for their beliefs. And, I do think that perhaps these rituals can be harmful to those who are ignorant.. ie: people who practice them without understanding the true purpose of these rituals (quite common in all religions including Buddhism I'm afraid).. as I think that this ignorance leads to superstitious behaviour. Take for example the belief that a statue of a Buddha or Hindu god is believed by some to be the abode of an actual god.

I see a universe which is rich in symbolism and metaphors, and I am constantly being reminded of how these metaphors are built into the very fabric of the universe.. eg: "the universe is a big atom.. and that effects everything".

I see this kind of symbolism in the cells and their nucleus. In the atom and its nucleus. The solar system and its nucleus (the sun). Our galaxy and its nucleus. Even our eyes seem to be symbolic of this very same design, and it reflects the careful thought that went into designing all these structures.

Regarding symbolism: To me using symbolism is just another type of metaphor - and both Jesus, Thao and the Thaori made use of metaphors because they are powerful methods of describing abstract subjects using principles that ignorant people can understand. Could anyone say that the use of metaphors is dangerous or shows a great lack of understanding?

As for astrology, I have little way of arguing for or against its merits as in the past I have never given it much credit and therefore never taken any real interest in it. I will say that I have always regarded it as kinda cooky. However, from what I can remember of the last chapter in Michel's book.. It seemed Thao was almost mischievous in her silent grin. All I can say for certain is this : - That Thao most certainly did not have anything negative to say about astrology, despite Michel questioning her directly about it.

One interesting factoid that I picked up from a documentary once (I would like to check up on this) was that our solar system is placed the outer edge of our galaxy. Additionally, the solar system oscillates in and out of the alignment with the plane which our galaxy forms. In this respect what the Mayan's talk of is quite real and not symbolic or fictitious.. our solar system will align with the heart of our galaxy, and I gather this is supposed to occur in 2012. I would certainly like to check the validity of this date !

peace,
z

[bomohwkl]

And, I do think that perhaps these rituals can be harmful to those who are ignorant..

And they stop seeking the reasons and understanding. They start to develop various beliefs because they don't understand. Isn't one of the main spiritual goals is to increase your understanding?

see a universe which is rich in symbolism and metaphors

Do you know why there exists metaphors and symbolism? What are the origin of the 'symbolism'? What can you understand about these 'symbolism'?

the universe is a big atom.. and that effects everything

Do you know why the universe is 'like' a big atom and do you know why the sun is like a nucleus and the planets are 'like' electrons circulating the nucleus. Give you a hint...the answer is encoded in NU-equations published
by Tom long time ago.

That Thao most certainly did not have anything negative to say about astrology, despite Michel questioning her directly about it.

Thao knew Micheal knew what Thao could response before he asked.

In this respect what the Mayan's talk of is quite real and not symbolic or fictitious.. our solar system will align with the heart of our galaxy, and I gather this is supposed to occur in 2012. I would certainly like to check the validity of this date !

One of the important consequences of NU-Equations is existence of natural oscillations. In applies from a world so small (atoms) to a world as big as universe. The sun magnetic field has a cycle. The earth has its own cycle. The galaxy has its own cycle too. The whole universe seems to have operated between a cycle even in the nature of our consciousness (for effective and efficient operation......)

if war happens in November 2002 or after, then it's bad, but not catastrophic. But if it happens between April and November 2003,

What understanding required to show that DATES are so important??

[Lachie]

Do you know why the universe is 'like' a big atom and do you know why the sun is like a nucleus and the planets are 'like' electrons circulating the nucleus. Give you a hint...the answer is encoded in NU-equations published by Tom long time ago.

If you have an understanding of quantum metaphysics, which is a brilliant new field of research, then that explains it quite clearly. The entire universe is one complex, evolving, expanding fractal equation that is expressing itself on the space/time continuum. Each part (holon) is a part of an equal and bigger holon that is itself part of a bigger holon and so it goes.

If anyone wants to find out more i have uploaded an excellent document onto my webspace:

http://lachie.antissa.com/QuantumMetaPhysics.doc

I don't know what writings of Tom you are referring to bomohwkl but this has always been the document that expresses it clearly and succintly to me.

Lachie

[Zark]

What understanding required to show that DATES are so important??

Why a special date?

For two reasons. Firstly, because it is a prophecy. Which raises one or two important question : do you believe in prophecy? do you believe in precognition, or that the Thiaooubans can preview ones life?

Secondly, because our solar system does in fact oscillate in and out of alignment with our galaxy. Therefore the dates of these alignments are very special. The questions this raises for me are:
* what actual significance will such an alignment have? eg: gravitational, spiritual.. perhaps it may be a non event. Or maybe it will bring a deeper connection with the energy and the will of the Creator?
* what is the actual date of this event?
* have the Mayan's got this date right? - it would be extraordinary if such an old civilisation did get it right don't you think? as this would make people wonder why they thought our present civilisation was so superior to those of ancient history.

Here is an explanation of the term 'The plane of the ecliptic'. There is a nice image describing the term on this page http://www.uwsp.edu/geo/faculty/ritter/ ... iptic.html. The text portion I will paste below :
The earth takes an elliptical path as it orbits the sun in the plane of the ecliptic

The plane of the ecliptic is the imaginary plane that cuts through the center of the earth and sun in which the earth orbits. The earth's axis in inclined 23 1/2 degrees from being perpendicular the plane of the ecliptic.

[Kestrel]

I think it has to do more with the choices of everyone, there just comes a time when our guardians must give us a warning.

However, of course I shant jump to conclusions, or assume such with out considering other options.

[Zark]

Thao knew Micheal knew what Thao could response before he asked.

hi bomohwkl, can you please restate that for me (pretty please). I gather you are saying that Thao knew what Michel's thoughts on this matter were?

All we know is Thao chose not to answer this question. It would be presumptuous for us to assume that we knew why.

this is a quote from the very last page of the book pg 167:
‘You are correct. We have ‘pre-viewed’ your whole life - right up to the death of your present physical body.’
‘When will I die?’
‘You know very well that I won’t tell you, so why do you ask? It is very bad to know the future and those who have their fortunes told commit a double error. First, the fortune teller might be a charlatan, and second, it is contrary to Nature to know what the future holds, for otherwise, the knowledge would not be effaced in the ‘river of oblivion’.’
‘Many people believe in the influence of the stars, and follow the signs of the Zodiac. What do you think of that?’
To this, Thao didn’t reply but she smiled...

[Zark]

I think it has to do more with the choices of everyone, there just comes a time when our guardians must give us a warning.

hi kestrel,
I am not sure which post you are replying to.. but I think what you are saying is that whatever disaster *might* be coming is dependant on our choices and our actions. I agree.

It is all rather reminiscent of the John Titor story, which might be just a tale based on this prophecy (although he makes no reference to it that I could find). Or perhaps it is a mythology with the sole purpose of warning us.

One reasonable prediction that John Titor did make was when asked about China he said "I believe they are pretty close to putting a man in orbit. It shouldn't surprise you if they do that soon". That statement was made in February 2001.

Oh, and another point to ponder is the possibility that the Mayan's still hold some of the wisdom passed on from Mu. They were after all colonised by Mu.

with metta
z

[Zark]

And they stop seeking the reasons and understanding. They start to develop various beliefs because they don't understand. Isn't one of the main spiritual goals is to increase your understanding?

Well, I don't think symbolism clouds the mind or reduces understanding. It is lazy, ignorant and superstitious behaviours that cause this problem -- and these occur regardless of the use of whether symbolism is used or not.

Well, just now I was reading in another thread a terrible piece of superstitious behaviour. I find this old practice comparable to some superstitions that exist to this day. eg: how some Catholics might repeat a single prayer hundreds of times a day, or similarly others may constantly repeat a mantra in hope of gaining entrance to Nirvana.

"Indulgences:
An indulgence is "the remission or limited release from the temporal punishments one must suffer in this life or in purgatory for the sins a person has committed." 9 An act such as reciting a prayer, saying the rosary, or helping someone in need can gain for the individual a reduction of many days in their stay in Purgatory.

During the late Middle Ages, "indulgences were employed by mercenary ecclesiastics as a means of pecuniary gain." 10 "...the practice of selling indulgence had degenerated into impenetrably murky financial and political transactions. In response to the wildly growing financial needs of the Papal Court, church institutions were given the rights to sell letters of indulgence as punishment for sin." 11 One type of indulgence, the "Peter Indulgence," was started by Pope Julius II in 1507 CE. It was collected from the faithful and used to finance the completion of St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. One of the most successful salesmen of indulgences was Friar Johannes Tetzel (1465-1519). "He went from being a simple Dominican priest to Papal Commissioner for Indulgence." 12 He claimed that "a soul is released from purgatory and carried to heaven as soon as the money tinkles in the box." 13 (...snip...)

[Meedan]

hi bomohwkl, can you please restate that for me (pretty please). I gather you are saying that Thao knew what Michel's thoughts on this matter were?

All we know is Thao chose not to answer this question. It would be presumptuous for us to assume that we knew why.

this is a quote from the very last page of the book pg 167:
‘You are correct. We have ‘pre-viewed’ your whole life - right up to the death of your present physical body.’
‘When will I die?’
‘You know very well that I won’t tell you, so why do you ask? It is very bad to know the future and those who have their fortunes told commit a double error. First, the fortune teller might be a charlatan, and second, it is contrary to Nature to know what the future holds, for otherwise, the knowledge would not be effaced in the ‘river of oblivion’.’
‘Many people believe in the influence of the stars, and follow the signs of the Zodiac. What do you think of that?’
To this, Thao didn’t reply but she smiled...

It is crystal clear to me when I read TP that Thao is not replying because she wants Michel to THINK for himself on this matter. I take it that it is suggesting how ridiculous the concept of astrology is, which you would naturally conclude if you think for yourself. I don't see how it can be taken seriously any other way. Believing in 'prophecies' can be one of the most dangerous things anyone can do.

I recommend reading or re-reading The Freedom of Choice and TFOC forum topics on astrology if anyone doesn't understand this.

[Zark]

Believing in 'prophecies' can be one of the most dangerous things anyone can do.

You seem so certain of yourself. But then why did you read "Thiaoouba Prophecy"?

(Ohh, I'm sorry for being a bit harsh here Meedan. It was late. Now that I have had some sleep I am feeling much less grumpy today .. You know...Twinkie Defence and all that hehe)

[bomohwkl]

prophecy :
Cambridge International English dictionary
a statement that says what is going to happen in the future, especially one which is based on what you believe about a particular matter rather than existing facts

Merrian Webster:
a prediction of something to come

why did you read "Thiaoouba Prophecy"?

Initially out of curiousity and latter find out there are so many truths and facts on it.

I personannly don't think Thiaoouba Prophecy is an accurate title. Abduction to the Golden planet is more appropriate

Therefore the dates of these alignments are very special. The questions this raises for me are:
* what actual significance will such an alignment have?

Do remember that Thiaooubians abduct an earthling approximately 100 years! Do you mean that there is a galatic alignment approximately 100 years??

eg: gravitational, spiritual.. perhaps it may be a non event. Or maybe it will bring a deeper connection with the energy and the will of the Creator

Probably you don't realize that spiritual development (intellectual development) is an individual effort. How can geometrical alignment makes to gain more understanding of the Observable reality of the universe?

have the Mayan's got this date right?

What actually the date of Mayan signifies in terms of the understanding the reality of the universe is still a mystery.

do you believe in prophecy? do you believe in precognition, or that the Thiaooubans can preview ones life

Beleiving is not enough. You need to understand in conncection with the reality of the universe. You need to know!

Extract of an article by Tom, July 2000 Vol 1, Nu Journal of Discovery. It takes me a while for me to understand the significance of the equations and statements on the paper. The symbolism and metaphors are the consquences of multiplicity of natural frequency the space.

Before I determined all terms of the NU equations, I imagined that their simple harmonic solutions (eigenvalues and eigenvectors) should represent every possible “elementary particle” or “atom” in the Universe. This would be a rather neat explanation for the “quantum world” that we observe, wouldn’t it? Even with my very limited knowledge of mathematics I can clearly see that the set of NU equations has an infinite number of DISCRETE eigenvalues (frequencies) and corresponding
eigenvectors (material manifestations of harmonic oscillations in the 3 dimensional space (x,y,z). Natural frequencies (eigenvalues) are mathematically possible because of the presence of 4 Pulse terms and corresponding non-zero constants (P1 P2 P3 P4)
Looking around us we find many identical “atoms” and “particles”. What is the necessary condition for the Universe to have natural frequencies (eigenvalues) of such an unlimited multiplicity? Is it a perfect symmetry? Is it a PERFECT spherical shape? Isn’t it a suggestion or a proof of the shape of the entire Universe? Has anyone ever formulated an eigenvalue problem of a spherical object of infinite size, described by NU equations, with infinite boundary conditions? Let’s start working on it. Can
we establish the Fundamental Frequency? What is The Pulse of the Universe? Can we determine the first 1010 natural frequencies and corresponding modes of oscillation? Can we start by considering a mathematical model of a single atom or a single electron described by
the NU equations? Can we use the Principle of Superposition to explain Reality? Theoretically, there seems to be no limit to the number of different “elements” that can exist in the Universe. It is quite reasonable to assume that some of the stable “atoms” will have their “atomic number” expressed in billions of trillions. Such “atoms” may have diameters of hundreds of meters. Can such atoms be used as buildings and shelters? [3] Is every planet such a shelter? Is every planet or a star just a big atom?

Astrology:
the study of the movements and positions of the sun, moon, planets and stars, and the skill of describing the expected effect that these are believed to have on the character and behaviour of humans.

All we know is Thao chose not to answer this question. It would be presumptuous for us to assume that we knew why.

Thao mentioned about Free-will. Do you think Thiaooubians let their behaviour and character influenced by the movements and positions of the sun, moon, planets and stars. What is the purpose of the universe of conscious control of your consciousness if the movement and position of the moin, sun and planets can influence your character. From one day being kind to other day being violence? It is obvious the answer if you really understand Thiaoouba Prophency and The freedom of choice.

[Yothu]

Thao mentioned about Free-will. Do you think Thiaooubians let their behaviour and character influenced by the movements and positions of the sun, moon, planets and stars. What is the purpose of the universe of conscious control of your consciousness if the movement and position of the moon, sun and planets can influence your character.

Now THIS is a very good argument. Thanks, for it helped me to get a clearer picture. This also explains to me the smile instead of responding to Michel's question.

[Kestrel]

Yeah, lets all get drunk because mars and jupiter are so close.

Yes of course we dont need to take responsibility when were drunk either, because obviously the position of the planets.
That just wouldent be to logical would it.

[Zark]

I personannly don't think Thiaoouba Prophecy is an accurate title. Abduction to the Golden planet is more appropriate

I agree that Thiaoouba Prophecy is not a good title for the book. My statement merely reflects the obvious points: (a) The book TP makes certain prophecies, and (b) that if you find the idea of prophecy repugnant why would you read it in the first place (given what the title suggests).

[Zark]

Do remember that Thiaooubians abduct an earthling approximately 100 years! Do you mean that there is a galatic alignment approximately 100 years??

On what do you base this.

You have come from a statement suggesting that *maybe* his abduction coincides with a Mayan prophecy. A Mayan prophecy that strangely enough gives us similar warnings about our immediate future. And somehow you come to the conclusion that therefore an abduction will occur every 100 years. That is a very irrational conclusion.