When tom askes "Can you imagine a world in which garbage doesn't disintegrate?", I would simply answer: "There is no garbage to begin with." It is all part of the path. All individual paths ofcourse.
We all have a goal set for the divine. Who is to say when someone is "garbage"?? Where can you draw the line?? When is something considered a big error and ready for the "junkyard" and when is the error minor enough so that it is reversible??
Surely we are able to make errors. It is imperative for us to learn. And if we don't learn in this lifetime, perhapse we will learn in a future lifetime. Even if we only where to learn just ONE LITTLE TINY thing every thousands years, it STILL would be progression.
Once conscious reaches a certain point it starts to question itself and it existence. It is from that point on where you can free yourself from your animal behavior. It is a natural process.
It all comes down to a simple question, "Can you change your destiny?"
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When the information in the astral body is so damaged that very little remains of your knowledge and personality, what do you think remains to be done? Sure, the higher self may be able to help, but do you think it would be allowed to restore your previous knowledge or personality, and if it does under certain circumstances, do you think it would be allowed to do that infinitely? You take drugs, it fixes the mess, you take drugs again, it fixes the mess, ad infinitum... just like that?Alisima wrote:Who is to say when someone is "garbage"?? Where can you draw the line?? When is something considered a big error and ready for the "junkyard" and when is the error minor enough so that it is reversible??
P.S. When Tom asks "Can you imagine a world in which garbage doesn't disintegrate?", the answer can be "Yes", though.
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
Garbage is recycled in nature. Look at the dying leaves and dead bodies, there are decomposed. Of course man-made plastic takes much longer to decompose by nature. I think there are person's garbage. My next door neighbour "Ozzy Osbourne alike" is one of them. Irritated by their loud music at nights. Taking drugs. Don't know how long! Probably more than 10 years. They are the scum of scum. Politely tell them to lower down the music at 2a.m, they purposedly turned even louder. Louder than disco. You can even hear it down the end of the street, 500m away.Police here has no power over that. Laws are too slow to react. I couldn't project any higher feeling to them. Been hurted by them psychologically. Diplomatic conversation is impossible with them. If you live next door to them, you will KNOW. I had thoughts of triggering a gun to kill them when they do that to me particualry at night sleeping. Even Jesus could get angry too! Of course, there have been several family flights inside thier house and several ambulances had been called. I even WISH oneday, the fights and violence between them could kill one of them.When tom askes "Can you imagine a world in which garbage doesn't disintegrate?", I would simply answer: "There is no garbage to begin with." It is all part of the path. All individual paths ofcourse.
You see, violence provokes violence thoughts!!!! At best, I will not act evil to them and I wouldn't have a single good-will thought about them. No higher feeling is possible for me to them. I couldn't even think them as a human with unlimited potential......when simple diplomatic conversation cannot be carried out.
You can do better by far. The possibility for diplomatic exchange is not required to have higher feelings for them. How about the following?bomohwkl wrote:At best, I will not act evil to them and I wouldn't have a single good-will thought about them. No higher feeling is possible for me to them. I couldn't even think them as a human with unlimited potential......when simple diplomatic conversation cannot be carried out.
You don't have (and of course, ought not) to approve them, but you can (and it is good) to pray for them to mend their ways or for something to happen to help them mend their ways. Perhaps you've already come to the conclusion, loving enemies does not mean to approve them like an ***. But, for one, praying for their good in the spiritual sense is going to eliminate the hatred towards them that spontaneously arises in you.Love your enemies,
Bless those who curse you,
Do good to those you hate you, and
Pray for those who despitefully use you, and persecute you,
That you may be the children of your father who is in heaven.
-Matthew 5:44-45
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
It is just impossible to supress your hearing at midnight. Only then, it is possible to extinguish the evil thoughts. Yet still you can feel the vibration from the floor. It effects my psychologically which then affect my ability to meditate and my sense of well-being.Perhaps you've already come to the conclusion, loving enemies does not mean to approve them like an ***. But, for one, praying for their good in the spiritual sense is going to eliminate the hatred towards them that spontaneously arises in you.
I understand, Bomohwkl. But if you are able to have evil thoughts, don't you agree you are able to pray for them, too? In any case, you'd be much better off if you moved out ASAP (whatever ASAP can be in your particular situation, but surely noise problems deserve immediate action, for reasons we know).
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
Dear Bomohwkl, Dear Vesko, I understand the saying above as "Keep your mind and your heart clean from all evil(garbage), and act accordingly and with responsibility toward what you Learned and understood is right for your spiritual development"Love your enemies,
Bless those who curse you,
Do good to those you hate you, and
Pray for those who despitefully use you, and persecute you,
That you may be the children of your father who is in heaven.
-Matthew 5:44-45
Bomohwkl my friend,
You may provocate them to play Loud music even louder, and their Violent behaviour to become even more agressive... If you start to hate them This can become as destructive for you as it is for them. Because Evil destroys itself. You have noticed it through your own experience.
Noise is a common problem you and me both have. I live with my Mom, Brother, Girlfriend and three cats, in an apartment with one single bedroom, a bath, a small restingroom, a kitchen, and a balcony. All in all it's 38 meters squared.Bomohwkl wrote:Politely tell them to lower down the music at 2a.m, they purposedly turned even louder. Louder than disco
- Is there any place you could go to meditate other than your own apartment?
- Is it possible for you to make one single room sound proof for your personal use?
- You can try to put your bed away from the walls and meditate on your bed to keep your body away from vibrations of the walls and the floor and to keep your ears closed (I do it sometimes with my fingers).
- You can compensate the noise sometimes with Music that you like. You can let the music that you like play even while you are meditating (the music would play but you would not listen or pay attention to it the same is as you do not pay attention to the flow of thoughts and ignore incoming thoughts while meditating)
-I like music without words (Words provocate thoughts) like classical music, like some Trance music. For not provoking your neighbours to play their music louder you can use soft comfortable headphones for yourself. I sometimes go to bed and sleep with music, program my computer with music, and meditate with music (whitout actively listening to it) the thing is that this music is the music that I like and I have carefully chosen it in order not to pollute my mind, but rather experiencing the highest feelings possible.
-Can you go to sleep (with your favourite music playing gently and softly) when your neighbours are awake; and wake up while they are asleep or are not playing Loud music?
-To Ignore your neighbours completely is better than hating them.
-I'm not used to walk away from problems. But sometimes as Vesko proposed you have to change your direction. Once I had an evil in my life (an alcoholic girlfriend) after 1 year I understood that the person is hopeless so I decided to stand back and simply watch as she fell apart because of her mindlessness. She simply left me (As she thought she did) not even suspecting that I allowed her to leave me long before she actually did.
These are a few examples my friend all is out of my own experience. You should try keep a clear mind long enough for yourself in order to think about what is best for you by yourself and act accordingly and responsively toward what you think is best for you. You have the freedom of choice.
As Tom says:
I'm saying that sometimes even an intelligent person cannot make the best choice because of a temporary polluted intellect"Our conscious choices are determined and limited by our intellect"
The essence of Consciousness, is the ability to Create, Process, Transmit and Receive Information Autonomously.
Even TP states clearly that after a life of drugs it taken several lifetimes to correct the damage. So it is clear that one CAN recover from it, without direct intervention of the higher self.Vesko wrote:When the information in the astral body is so damaged that very little remains of your knowledge and personality, what do you think remains to be done? Sure, the higher self may be able to help, but do you think it would be allowed to restore your previous knowledge or personality, and if it does under certain circumstances...
You can never know for sure that a person who takes drugs will do the same in ALL their future lives. It all depends on in what kind of culture and what kind of environment they are born. Let imagine ozzy osbourne being born 20.000 years ago, would he still live the same life??Vesko wrote:...do you think it would be allowed to do that infinitely? You take drugs, it fixes the mess, you take drugs again, it fixes the mess, ad infinitum... just like that?
I'll bet that even YOU in a previous life have taken drugs. And perhapse even an overdosis. Your not doing drugs right now, are you?? NO, ofcourse not. Because you LEARNED to avoid it. Because you used it, learned it was bad, and grew adversion for it. Adversion SO strong that even in future lifes you would still feel a inner repulsion against it.
If we are not able to make mistakes, even twice, even a hundred times, if that is what it takes, we are not able to learn.
Perhapse the "universal law" is indeed like tom said, that aften several serious mistakes you go the dust bin. I, personally, find that idea very repulsive. But o.k., I am, as always, open for different theories.
Don't read my signature.
I work and sleep in the toilet when that happened. I wish I can move. It all boil down to money. I have insufficient money to move away. My house is under a yearly contract. And my job is a yearly contract. It might not be able to renew. I have no money to have it to disappear like thin air. The only solution which my HS indicated is via environmental agency. It works so slowly. Money and a sense of security (which enable to predict my future) are needed for certain change unfortunately. If I have a permanant job, of course, I will move away straight away.All funding bodies suddenly pulled all the funding of my research group is already causing lots of trouble.I understand, Bomohwkl. But if you are able to have evil thoughts, don't you agree you are able to pray for them, too? In any case, you'd be much better off if you moved out ASAP (whatever ASAP can be in your particular situation, but surely noise problems deserve immediate action, for reasons we know).
Pray?? Pray so that they wouldnt listen to loud music ? I don't think so.
What the environmental agency could only do is removal of their Hi-Fis after court order and several random visit by the environmental agency. I am doing GOOD for them by removal of their Hi-Fi and barred them to listen to loud music. Too much red tapes. I even asked my HS to hurry the process. They surely hate me (and people who have complained about the loud music caused by them) to have their hi-fis removed.
Last edited by bomohwkl on Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
Meditation with music is not effective at all. Only through silent meditation that it is meditation.- You can compensate the noise sometimes with Music that you like. You can let the music that you like play even while you are meditating (the music would play but you would not listen or pay attention to it the same is as you do not pay attention to the flow of thoughts and ignore incoming thoughts while meditating)
-I like music without words (Words provocate thoughts) like classical music, like some Trance music. For not provoking your neighbours to play their music louder you can use soft comfortable headphones for yourself. I sometimes go to bed and sleep with music, program my computer with music, and meditate with music (whitout actively listening to it) the thing is that this music is the music that I like and I have carefully chosen it in order not to pollute my mind, but rather experiencing the highest feelings possible.
-Can you go to sleep (with your favourite music playing gently and softly) when your neighbours are awake; and wake up while they are asleep or are not playing Loud music?
Something which is certain. If you are not wise in this life and if you completely lack of wisdom, if you tend to having difficulty making choices of your next reincarnation that best suit for self-development.You can never know for sure that a person who takes drugs will do the same in ALL their future lives. It all depends on in what kind of culture and what kind of environment they are born. Let imagine ozzy osbourne being born 20.000 years ago, would he still live the same life??
I'll bet that even YOU in a previous life have taken drugs. And perhapse even an overdosis. Your not doing drugs right now, are you?? NO, ofcourse not. Because you LEARNED to avoid it. Because you used it, learned it was bad, and grew adversion for it. Adversion SO strong that even in future lifes you would still feel a inner repulsion against it.
I know.bomohwkl wrote:Meditation with music is not effective at all. Only through silent meditation that it is meditation.Robanan wrote:- You can compensate the noise sometimes with Music that you like. You can let the music that you like play even while you are meditating (the music would play but you would not listen or pay attention to it the same is as you do not pay attention to the flow of thoughts and ignore incoming thoughts while meditating)
-I like music without words (Words provocate thoughts) like classical music, like some Trance music. For not provoking your neighbours to play their music louder you can use soft comfortable headphones for yourself. I sometimes go to bed and sleep with music, program my computer with music, and meditate with music (whitout actively listening to it) the thing is that this music is the music that I like and I have carefully chosen it in order not to pollute my mind, but rather experiencing the highest feelings possible.
-Can you go to sleep (with your favourite music playing gently and softly) when your neighbours are awake; and wake up while they are asleep or are not playing Loud music?
I sometimes prefere to allow a song that I like to play in the background in order to just enjoy a resting mind rather than aiming for a deep spiritual experience which would require silence. I think I shouldn't have used the word meditation. I do this simply because I spend most of my time at home and there is always ugly and unwanted noise around that I don't want to Ignore but would like not to hear. I experience headaches when I carelessly allow such noise to disturb me.
For me the question is "What is the best thing that I can do in this moment and in this situation without compromising the freedom of choice of others?"
For example: why shouldn't my mother watch T.V. and My Brother listen to music, and my cats play, and my girlfriend talk on the phone; When I need to write a program on my computer?What can I do to let them feel free doing all that they think they want/need to do; While I'm programming my computer and need to concentrate?
When I want to truly meditate it's my duty to find a silent place for myself and not for others to keep silence.
You will know what I'm talking about when you would get married and have a few children that would just fall on your head every minute.
I feel how much you are frustrated bomohwkl because of you neighbours. But if I had a chance to think up something in order to let them do what they want/need to do (i.e. playing loud music, taking drugs, etc.) while at the same time enabeling myself to rest/maditate/work/study as I whish I would use that chance and would allow my intellect do the best for me while at the same time letting nature do the worst for them.
What do I have to lose? Nothing!
I can spend an infinite amount of time during my next lives to meditate perfectly. But in this moment I have to learn to respect the freedom of choice of others and the self correcting system of nature
What do you think you need to learn in your life in this moment bomohwkl?
The essence of Consciousness, is the ability to Create, Process, Transmit and Receive Information Autonomously.
Hmmm... this got me thinking:Alisima wrote:You can never know for sure that a person who takes drugs will do the same in ALL their future lives. It all depends on in what kind of culture and what kind of environment they are born. Let imagine ozzy osbourne being born 20.000 years ago, would he still live the same life??
If you and your HS previewed the life you were about to lead and saw that you would take hallucinogenic drugs, then certainly both you and your HS would reject that life. Both the HS and you are harmed in such a scenario and therefore I wonder how drug use can come to exist at all...
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
You can meditate on everything. Silence just makes it easier for you. When someone is skilled in meditation he can do it everywhere, during work for instance, or when chatting with someone, as long as he doesn't let the mind go astray. How else can one meditate in the nature, with the bird singing, the water falling and all kinds of animals who make noise??Robanan wrote:I know.
It is a good question indeed. And I seriously doubt how much drugs DOES damage you. TP and tom said it caused you to send false information to your HS. But doesnt daydreaming and violence (etc.) also send false information?? With hallucinogenic drugs you start to create your own storyline. You don't interpret the things the way they are but you create something that does not exist. According to tom the things you create interfere with the HS, simply because they are false. But like I said, isn't every other emotion we have also created by OURSELVES, like hatred for instance. Isn't that false information either??Hmmm... this got me thinking:
If you and your HS previewed the life you were about to lead and saw that you would take hallucinogenic drugs, then certainly both you and your HS would reject that life. Both the HS and you are harmed in such a scenario and therefore I wonder how drug use can come to exist at all...
I do not suggest drugs is harmless, it definitly causes people to become dumb. However, I know various people who actually CHANGED their lives because of a hallucinogenic experience, they became more self-aware and stopped most of their criminal behavior.
So in my opinion drugs is a path too. It is something some people have to have to advance. Even IF it is a step back, perhapse that step back causes different thing to happen which eventually makes them progress.
Don't read my signature.
One problem is that if you allow to do that too often , people will use their free-will to exercise control on you and remove your other needs. It is the same thing of allowing them do to what they feel free but don't allow you to do what you feel free to do. I understand that most people lack of self-assertion. Developing self-assertion skill is very important.What can I do to let them feel free doing all that they think they want/need to do;