The Devil -- Really an Old Egyptian Invention?

[Vesko]

In the book, there is the following paragraph:

‘The first King of United Egypt, both upper and lower, was called Mena. It was he who established the town of Memphis. He was elected by the same method used in Mu - a method that did not long survive in Egypt, due to the rise of a powerful clergy which little by little put the Pharaohs under its thumb. This situation continued over the years with notable exceptions among the Pharaohs who yielded to the clergy. One such exception was the Pharaoh Athnaton1 who was poisoned by the priests. Before dying, he made the following statement: ‘The time that I have spent on this Earth was an era in which the simplicity of Truth was not understood and was rejected by many.’ As often happens in religious sects, the Egyptian priests distorted the Truth, simple though it was, in order to have a better hold over the people. They had them believing in the devil and in various divine beings as well as other such nonsense.

devil = satan, right?

In Hebrew, the word "satan" means "adversary; accuser", and this is also in the etymological explanation of "satan" in various English dictionaries.
But how about a similarity between the word "satan" and "Seth", or "Set", the Egyptian God of Chaos? The page http://sobek.colorado.edu/LAB/GODS/set.html reads:

Set
(Seth, Setekh, Setesh, Seti, Sutekh, Setech, Sutech)

Egyptian god of chaos who embodied the principle of hostility if not of outright evil. He was associated with foreign lands and was the adversary of the god Osiris. Seth was usually depicted in human form with a head of indeterminate origin, though said to resemble that of an aardvark. He had a curved snout, erect square-tipped ears and a long forked tail.

Outright evil... Adversary of supreme Egyptian god... forked tail, just I have seen in depictions of the Christian devil... I think there's no doubt. Searching the web there are various pages connecting Satan to Seth, but satan being a synonym for devil and the book's information could really mean that he was really an Egyptian invention of those terrible priests.

The thing that made me see a very probable connection between Seth and the idea of a devil originating in Egypt was a text written by an acquaintance of mine, who passed away early this year. There is a statement in http://gerryforster.netfirms.com/Alt_Sc ... _Thule.doc ("From Mu to Thule" -- containing copious information about Churchward's Mu books), saying that "satan" is derived from "Seth".

[Kestrel]

Thats sad, for all those whom belive in satan.

[Alisima]

Here is a typical satanic site, "The joy of satan." http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/HOME.html

Anyway, the only reason i mention this site is because it has several Meditation techniques. Some quite good actually.

[Vesko]

The site says Satan is not evil i.e. does not do violence. In that respect, it is not a typical Satanist site.

[Yothu]

Thats sad, for all those whom belive in satan.

That was a good one

[Kestrel]

Thats sad, for all those whom belive in satan.

That was a good one

Hehe well you know my personalitys like a mullet. All buisness in the front, party in the back

[GreatIntellect]

Hehe well you know my personalitys like a mullet. All buisness in the front, party in the back

I think that's the quote of the day!

[Kestrel]

Heh thats a pretty old comment actually. Just guess its new to you guys. heh.

[Zark]

Yup, I would say that the roots of the dominant Middle Eastern religions (Judaism, Muslim, and Christian faiths) actually lie in the faint memories of Egyptian beliefs. These beliefs were carried away out of Egypt with Moses and the Jewish people in the 'Exodus'.

It may be that the beliefs of the Jewish people were the cause for Akenaten (aka: Akenatun, Akenaten, Amenhotep IV) renouncing and abolishing the idolistic religion of the priests and replacing it with the one god 'Ra' (aka: 'Aten')

[Zark]

There is a very interesting guy called Swedenborg - born in 1688 - who dispite being Christian refuted the existance of Satan. I am quite surprised that he said this and gets away with it, I certainly wouldn't have had the courage to say such a thing way back in the 1700's:

In the Christian world it is wholly unknown that heaven and hell are from the human race, for it was believed that in the beginning angels were created and heaven was thus formed; also that the devil or Satan was an angel of light, but having rebelled he was cast down with his crew, and thus hell was formed. The angels never cease to wonder at such a belief in the Christian world, and still more that nothing is really known about heaven...

They wish for this reason that I should declare from their lips that in the entire heaven there is not a single angel who was created such from the beginning, nor in hell any devil who was created an angel of light and cast down; but that all, both in heaven and in hell, are from the human race; in heaven those who lived in the world in heavenly love and belief, in hell those who lived in infernal love and belief. [Heaven and Hell 311]
source: http://www.swedenborg.com.au => philiosophy => on life after death

(emphasis is mine)

[Zark]

Did you notice in that quote that Swedenborg also said that the angels are human. That was another correlation between TP and his writings.

I was only recently saying to Vesko that it is practically impossible to convince a Christian that Satan doesn't exist (I have some Christian friends). Firstly because if you told them that Satan didn't exist they would simply say that you are lead astray by Satan. Secondly, the belief in Satan is a core part of their beliefs and is used to explain everything that is wrong with the world - rather than blame the real culprits: ourselves and of course the occasional accident (eg: plane crashes, genetic diseases, etc).

I find it fascinating that Swedenborg said this as it is a BIG departure from 'Christian' doctrine. I say 'Christian' using quotes because it would seem that the message of Jesus Christ has been perverted, otherwise *** did all the references to Satan get into the New Testament.

[Vesko]

I really liked your post, Zark. Yes, I've noticed the human reference outright, and immediately what Thao said to Michel regarding the Bible (that angels are confused with men, because they did appear as men, specifically in the case of the blinding of the people in Sodom, who wanted to beat/kill the strange "men" and rape Lot's daughters) came to mind. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to think that even in those times there were really independent and forward-thinking people.

[Zark]

Here is something I stumbled upon - the tradional legends of vanuatu also have that creation myth about being tempted by Satan to eat forbidden fruit:

In a country that owns up to being predominantly Christian, traditional beliefs hold sway over much of the populace. The missionaries had success in imposing an alien faith over people who already had strong beliefs, but that success may have been due in part to some remarkable similarities between Christianity and local beliefs. Many islanders believed in a Creator Tahara who didn't sound too different from Jehovah, a Garden of Eden where the original man and woman ate fruit from the forbidden rose apple tree and fell from grace, and the demon Saratau, who neatly paralleled Satan.
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destination ... ulture.htm

[Robanan]

Woha! they are located in the south pacific ocean, I don't wonder why they believe in the existance of a garden where the original man and woman ate the forbidden fruit.

As I gather from http://www.ruthenia.ru/folklore/berezkin/144_0.htm:

Меланезия.
Киваи [гром есть лай собак Bigama и Wauri, принадлежащих Marunogere; в стране мертвых Adiri они оповещают лаем о прибытии каждой новой души]: Landtman 1927: 311-312; нгуна (Новые Гебриды) [нижний мир состоит из трех ярусов или отделов; когда умерший на свою дорогу, его встречает Saratau Tata, "Вечно Рубящий (топором)" и бьет томагавком по голове; поэтому когда умирает владелец собаки, ее убивают на его могиле, чтобы собака сопровождала и защищала хозяина от ST.; наносимые ST умершим раны не смертельны, все умершие достигают Saratau Vakale (=Всегда Добр), который раны промывает и перевязывает]: Schutz 1969: 229-230

-Bolding is mine

The Word "Saratau" means: always, eternally, for ever; perpetually, everlastingly. "Saratau Tata" Means: Eternally Chopping [with axe] this is a demon(?) that the the dead meet on their way through the underworld, after "Saratau Tata" the dead meet with "Saratau Vakale" (The one who is always(eternally) Good/Kind).

[Zark]

hi robonan, here is how babel fish translated (mangled) that text into english :

Melanesia.
Kivai [ thunder are barking of dogs Bigama and Wauri, that belong Marunogere; in the country of the corpses Adiri they notify by barking about the arrival of each new soul ]: Landtman 1927: 311-312; nguna (new Hebrides) [ lower peace consists of three tiers or divisions; when dead person to his road, him meets Saratau Tata, "eternally chopping (by axe)" beats by tomahawk along the head; therefore when dies the owner of dog, it they kill on his grave so that the dog would accompany and would protect owner from ST.; the wounds applied ST to dead person are not fatal, all dead persons reach Saratau Vakale (= is always good), which wounds washes and ties up ]: Schutz 1969: 229-230

oops I made a typo, but I think I'll leave it