"Drugs" or "No Drugs"?

[Robanan]

bomohwkl wrote:
So, after much mental training and preparation of major exam, we just take hallucinogenic drug to solve the last problem? I don't think most human understand what is enlightenment. Not even most yogis. That's unfortunately true.

You are putting words in my mouth, I have never said that. I said that with enough mental training you can overcome the negative effects of hallucinogenic drugs. I also said that without mental training no yogi would ever take it. As for enlightment, it is not important what you do, but why you do it.

bomohwkl wrote:
so what sould it refer to? If we don't define as precise as possible of terms we are using, there is little progress of intellecual discussion?

Astral body is a western term, I cannot find it in any of my eastern books which also deals with soul. I think we should ask Michel of the relationship between Astral body and soul, but I think the soul in a step higher than the Astral.

Robanan wrote:
Please notice that if we consider souls to be undestroyable, there would be no point for it's creator to care for it.

I don't understand, why is that? Even with an undestroyable soul you can roam endlessly on the lower planes.

I think the concept of undestroyable/destroyable soul is the same as death penalty or no death penalty. Let me explain this. When someone does a crime he has to punished. From my perspective dying is no punishment, living in a small cell with no friends, etc, etc, THAT is punishment. So what would be the ultimate punishment for a soul that has gone astray?? death? no...

I cannot agree with you Alisima when you say that: "With enough mental training one can overcome the effect of hallucinogenic drugs"

1- Let's suppose the person exactly knows the exact information which is distorted/damaged by the effect of hallucinogenic drugs. The person would notice he/she has a wrong impression about a specific thing (this includes the pain and suffering the person may have to go through before growing to suspect that something might be wrong). It would require a huge amount of re-learning supprted with re-evaluation and valid objective observations. There is a huge amount of error in this process. Someone really wise and intelligent with a trained mind would not go through such a thing over and over again. My ancestors of around 1500-1700 B.C. completely excluded drugs, They could see the aura and considered drugs as something that "creates confusion".

2- If you remember from my previous posts to you about the same subject I told you that the damaging effect of drugs is because of the way they alter/distort perception. We have perception S/W coded on our astral body also, this is why you can percieve things as you are having an out of body experience. So even if you meet with the light on drugs. There is a 99.99% of probability that you won't become enlightened and worse you may even become more confused and gather more misunderstanding and wrong impressions of things rather than the opposite. It does matter what you do while it also matters why you do something when you want to become enlightened.

And a word about my comment regarding The Creator and eternally immortal souls:

An Astral Body may roam endlessly and eternally on the "lower" planes. I think that would be more than enough as an ultimate punishment for an Astral body which has gone astray.
I rather said that if the Astral entity (soul) would be undamagable therefore theoretically undestroyable, then The Creator would have much less reasons to care for it and experience true love with it since there would be such small chances for the Astral entity to evolve and become a good company for it's Creator. (because the Astral entity would be deprieved of learning indipendently out of it's own mistakes) and then try to understand the following analogy:

You would not enjoy the feeling regarding the program you have written and Created on your computer, which is hanging in a seemingly neverending loop on it's first run.

[InfoSource]

I voted not sure, but I'm leaning towards them not being enlightened because drugs do alter your perception and give you artificial paradise (ecstasy) that distorts information your astral body (soul) gives to your higher self as said in the book

But maybe they just want to prove their mental capabilities by taking drugs and overcoming them while giving them a short cut to astral projecting

[Zark]

We must consider also consider what is meant by the word drug. When I listened to the Thiaoouba Truth interview with Michel Desmarquet, he said that by the word drug in the book didn't mean drugs like paracetamol, but rather ones such as hallucinogenic drugs.

[Robanan]

I still think that a radio covered with milk and honey cannot transmit and recieve the news correctly.

[Alisima]

I did not say that ALL yogi's who take hallucinogenic drugs became enlightened, I said that it is possible with enough mental training. Furthermore it does not matter whether you are a yogi or not.

Thiaoouba Prophecy claims that misperceiving information is wrong, and that hallucinogenic drugs does exactly that. Distorted information is bad for the Astral Body. Hmm, ok, seems logical.

However, let's take 2 people who read a book. In the book a beautifull house is decribed, next to the house are growing immense trees and on the opposite side is flowing a calm and serene river with the occasional fish jumping out of it. To the house leads a perfectly laid stone path surrounded with precious flowers and the greenest grass you can imagine. Now, the picture that the book creates in the mind of the reader is not the same in all of the readers minds. In fact, you might think the house was made of WOOD, where I have imagined it to be made of STONE!! My point is, there is distorted information EVERYWHERE!! Not just when reading a book but actually almost all of the time in our lives. Even between a simple conversation. Is that bad?? For our Astral Body??

There a people who believe they cannot be hurt because they believe in Jesus. Isn't that distored information also??

Last night I had a dream where I was perfectly convinced that I was eating, later on I was perfectly convinced I was at school, and before that I was perfectly convinced I was taking the train to school. Everything in the dream looked completely real and very vivid. I had the same emotional responses to certain phenomenon, for instance when I lost my shoes I was feeling akward since I was walking barefoot in school, as I do in real life. Furthermore, I had more emotional response that where VERY real, like being sad, happy, etc, etc. Isn't that misinformation either?? Aren't we fooling ourselves EVERY single night?? Not to forget the daydreaming.

In fact, we have been distorting information ALL our life. As a child you were afraid of the dark, when you reached puberty you disagree with everything you parent say, even when they were right, and by the time you have grown up you are completely paranoiac person, who fantasises, creates, and imagines things that ARE SIMPLY NOT THERE!! And if you don't agree, I suggest you do some contemplation and see the facts for yourself.

Now it is true that purpose of our life is to overcome this distorted images, to know the false from the true, and to make yourself free from confusion or ambiguity. That is what I think is the first step to enlightenment, and until that you are just distorting information, or misperceiving it. Which, to my estimate, are NOT damaging the Astral Body.

[Robanan]

I did not say that ALL yogi's who take hallucinogenic drugs became enlightened, I said that it is possible with enough mental training. Furthermore it does not matter whether you are a yogi or not.

I referred to exactly those yogis who claimed to have been enlightened by enough mental training and take hallucinogenic drugs, I mean to research if their intellect is capable of understanding any given information. If you would present some of their writings, sayings (all in all results and evidence out of their Intellectual activity) We may be able to expand the context of our conversation.

I think that it may be possible to take hallucinogenic drugs and even meet with the light considering a person is trained enough mentally to aim for it, since there would be a lot of distracting attractive artificial paradises to exclude and forget about. Consider how hard would it be to give up an overall fake sense of happiness in order to meet with the light of the higher self. The person should also have a firm and strong knowledge of the existence of the higher self before considering to arrange a meeting with it.

Considering the person has all the above mentioned I agree that there is a very small small probability that (indeed) a few yogis eventually succeeded, and met with the light (their Higher Self).

I'm saying that Even so even if they met with the higher self it does not mean that they became "enlightened" for the very same reason you have shown in your post:

However, let's take 2 people who read a book. In the book a beautifull house is decribed, next to the house are growing immense trees and on the opposite side is flowing a calm and serene river with the occasional fish jumping out of it. To the house leads a perfectly laid stone path surrounded with precious flowers and the greenest grass you can imagine. Now, the picture that the book creates in the mind of the reader is not the same in all of the readers minds. In fact, you might think the house was made of WOOD, where I have imagined it to be made of STONE!! My point is, there is distorted information EVERYWHERE!! Not just when reading a book but actually almost all of the time in our lives. Even between a simple conversation. Is that bad?? For our Astral Body??

There a people who believe they cannot be hurt because they believe in Jesus. Isn't that distored information also??

Last night I had a dream where I was perfectly convinced that I was eating, later on I was perfectly convinced I was at school, and before that I was perfectly convinced I was taking the train to school. Everything in the dream looked completely real and very vivid. I had the same emotional responses to certain phenomenon, for instance when I lost my shoes I was feeling akward since I was walking barefoot in school, as I do in real life. Furthermore, I had more emotional response that where VERY real, like being sad, happy, etc, etc. Isn't that misinformation either?? Aren't we fooling ourselves EVERY single night?? Not to forget the daydreaming.

hmmm... let's see:

My point is, there is distorted information EVERYWHERE!! Not just when reading a book but actually almost all of the time in our lives. Even between a simple conversation. Is that bad?? For our Astral Body??

Considering your analogy of two people reading a book, it means that those two made different assumptions and this is noway related and does not have anything in common with distorted information. Distorted information would be if any of the two would imagine a statue in a park instead of what actually is written in the book.

Making different assumptions is ok I think it is also good to use imagination in order to make the maximum possible correct assumptions which are coherent and resonate with the given/taken Data/Information. This would even good for the development of your imagination and concentration capabilities.

There a people who believe they cannot be hurt because they believe in Jesus. Isn't that distored information also??

Those people who believe they cannot be hurt because they belive in Jesus, Actually get hurt and get hurt all the time they just don't want to admit it, but they blame Satan/The Devil for it, and continue to believe in their version of Jesus the saviour further and more often even stronger after each time they get hurt. So guess what they get hurt and hurt again and again all the time and they choose not to suspect if anything is wrong with their lives, since they believe they live and walk with their version of Jesus the saviour and that they are surely saved by him.
This example and the resulting overlooked hurt they do to themselves is indeed dangerous. I think this is why Thao Mentioned "Religion" to be one of the greatest evils on our planet so as to drugs. It happens within the frames of every single religion we have on our planet. "Religious Fanaticism" and "Hallucinogenic Drugs" are two different cases, the first is a conscious act the other is a choice and the rest happeppens artificailly and automatically. I would not sit on a plane with distorted flying capabilities to get to Ohio from the other side of the ocean. Even if I get to my destination I wouls suspect that I would have to spend my time in a hospital rather than enjoying my staying there.

Last night I had a dream where I was perfectly convinced that I was eating, later on I was perfectly convinced I was at school, and before that I was perfectly convinced I was taking the train to school. Everything in the dream looked completely real and very vivid. I had the same emotional responses to certain phenomenon, for instance when I lost my shoes I was feeling akward since I was walking barefoot in school, as I do in real life. Furthermore, I had more emotional response that where VERY real, like being sad, happy, etc, etc. Isn't that misinformation either?? Aren't we fooling ourselves EVERY single night?? Not to forget the daydreaming.

Why do you Think that your Dreams should not be real to you? You should not exclude your dreams from the reality of your life. You have more than enough evidence to consider your dreams to be an integral part of the reality you experience in your life, perhaps the dream was trying to show you that?;)

Really experiencing something real is no way related to misinformation. The inner world inside each one of us is really intresting isn't it? It is certain that we have to take the responsibility and try not to fool ourselves at all.

In fact, we have been distorting information ALL our life. As a child you were afraid of the dark, when you reached puberty you disagree with everything you parent say, even when they were right, and by the time you have grown up you are completely paranoiac person, who fantasises, creates, and imagines things that ARE SIMPLY NOT THERE!! And if you don't agree, I suggest you do some contemplation and see the facts for yourself.

Indeed, I have been polluting my mind and my impression of my own self with my Zodiac sign ("Scorpio") for a very very long time. That each time I need to re-evaluate myself I find the scorpion I have within.

Now it is true that purpose of our life is to overcome this distorted images, to know the false from the true, and to make yourself free from confusion or ambiguity. That is what I think is the first step to enlightenment, and until that you are just distorting information, or misperceiving it. Which, to my estimate, are NOT damaging the Astral Body.

I think that you are correct in general. an astral body without it's information and the S/W coded on it is not an astral body anymore, it would turn to a bunch of useless/useful electrons. It would be like an eagle without wings.

[Kestrel]

Each person is individual.

Also, I am on my own journey its possibly intresting, but however irrelavent to me if that person is "enlightened" what ever that many mean. I am not going to debate what the meaning of the word is however. I must think upon an individual basis person to person to decide so I don't know. I don't reccomend taking such drugs.

I did not vote in this poll.

[Robanan]

My Definition of "enlightment" is this:
It's when a person becomes more spiritually advanced (developed).

I imagine and expect a spiritually advanced (developed) person to have:

Relatively developed Intellect, extended Awareness, high mental capabilities, extraordinary conscious qualities, authoritative qualities(influential, reliable, competent) , full of knowledge, love and understanding, Self sufficency, complete knowledge of the self

"Enlightment" is a spiritual experience. And I believe it can happen every moment even when you are watching the stars

It would feel so frustating if one would reach the light of the Higher Self and won't become enlightened because of the effect of hallucinating drugs on his perceptions. Even though the person migh feel the love of the Higher Self intensively; I doubt the person would be given any valuable information in such a state at all; since the Higher self would be aware of the fact that the person is not capable of understanding correctly because of the effect of the drugs.

[Kestrel]

Well wouldn't spiritual advancement be gained through spiritual effort?

Theres no quick powder, no magical spiritual pill, you're goals are reached through determination and living it.

Drugs used with the intetion to gain knowelge with out taking the proper steps to attain tha knowlege is like an attempt to disregard universal law it just wont work. I guess thats my opinion though.

[Alisima]

However, let's take 2 people who read a book. In the book a beautifull house is decribed, next to the house are growing immense trees and on the opposite side is flowing a calm and serene river with the occasional fish jumping out of it. To the house leads a perfectly laid stone path surrounded with precious flowers and the greenest grass you can imagine. Now, the picture that the book creates in the mind of the reader is not the same in all of the readers minds. In fact, you might think the house was made of WOOD, where I have imagined it to be made of STONE!! My point is, there is distorted information EVERYWHERE!! Not just when reading a book but actually almost all of the time in our lives. Even between a simple conversation. Is that bad?? For our Astral Body??

There a people who believe they cannot be hurt because they believe in Jesus. Isn't that distored information also??

Last night I had a dream where I was perfectly convinced that I was eating, later on I was perfectly convinced I was at school, and before that I was perfectly convinced I was taking the train to school. Everything in the dream looked completely real and very vivid. I had the same emotional responses to certain phenomenon, for instance when I lost my shoes I was feeling akward since I was walking barefoot in school, as I do in real life. Furthermore, I had more emotional response that where VERY real, like being sad, happy, etc, etc. Isn't that misinformation either?? Aren't we fooling ourselves EVERY single night?? Not to forget the daydreaming.

hmmm... let's see:

My point is, there is distorted information EVERYWHERE!! Not just when reading a book but actually almost all of the time in our lives. Even between a simple conversation. Is that bad?? For our Astral Body??

Considering your analogy of two people reading a book, it means that those two made different assumptions and this is noway related and does not have anything in common with distorted information. Distorted information would be if any of the two would imagine a statue in a park instead of what actually is written in the book.

The brain is not a random generator which can distort information randomly. No, it all happens according a simple process. It has much to do with association. Let's say I say: "cat". You can associate cat with dog, simply because you have watch many cat-dog fights in your live, for example. Furthermore, when you think about dog you can associate it with kennel, and kennel with backyard, because that is where the kennel often is placed. You see, we now came from cat to backyard. Ofcourse you can imagine that this process is subdued when we are awake and unlocked when we go to sleep, this is what we call dreaming. The same thing happens when we take hallucinogenic drug, although a little bit more complicated.

Now back to my analogy about the different assumptions between people when reading a book. This happens in a similar way with what described above, although in a less intense way. We both read "house", and I associate it with a "stone house", were you associate it with "wood house". This is perhapse because where I live houses are made of stone and I automatically associate it with it, wereas you don't. Perfectly normal, but distorted nevertheless.

Ofcourse you can have a whole different view about "distorted information", which, like it did, would lead us to not agreeing with eachother. If that is the case, please explain how you see distorted information and how it comes about.

Those people who believe they cannot be hurt because they belive in Jesus, Actually get hurt and get hurt all the time they just don't want to admit it, but they blame Satan/The Devil for it, and continue to believe in their version of Jesus the saviour further and more often even stronger after each time they get hurt. So guess what they get hurt and hurt again and again all the time and they choose not to suspect if anything is wrong with their lives, since they believe they live and walk with their version of Jesus the saviour and that they are surely saved by him.
This example and the resulting overlooked hurt they do to themselves is indeed dangerous. I think this is why Thao Mentioned "Religion" to be one of the greatest evils on our planet so as to drugs. It happens within the frames of every single religion we have on our planet. "Religious Fanaticism" and "Hallucinogenic Drugs" are two different cases, the first is a conscious act the other is a choice and the rest happeppens artificailly and automatically.

Does it happen artificailly and automatically??? I would describe drugs as a brain enhancer. It enhances brain functions to such a level where you can't seperate reality from illusions. Everything that happen due to drugs was something that was already "normal" for the brain, but "pumped-up". What do you think controls your emotions and diffection moods?? Your brain is FULL of drugs, if you haven't noticed already. They are in small doses ofcourse. Drugs just surpasses the normal doses in your brain.

Why do you Think that your Dreams should not be real to you? You should not exclude your dreams from the reality of your life. You have more than enough evidence to consider your dreams to be an integral part of the reality you experience in your life, perhaps the dream was trying to show you that?;)

I never said I consider dreams unreal. But there is a different degree to vividness one can have in a dream. One can experience a dream with a blurry vision or one can experience it with a sharp vision, more sharper than in "real" life. Apart from different degrees in vision, you can also have different degrees in consciousness. When I said the dreams looked real, I meant that the scenario was normal and dreamcharacters behaved normally, like they would in real life. Nowhere did I want to suggest that I consider dreams to be unreal, but just to show you that I had no "dream signs," that is how they are called, in my dream, with which I could see that I was just having a dream. (A pink elephant is a dream sign for example.) In fact, I think dreams are an important part of our conscious development.

[Robanan]

The brain is not a random generator which can distort information randomly.

I'm aware of this fact Alisima, but...

...It has much to do with association. Let's say I say: "cat". You can associate cat with dog, simply because you have watch many cat-dog fights in your live, for example. Furthermore, when you think about dog you can associate it with kennel, and kennel with backyard, because that is where the kennel often is placed. You see, we now came from cat to backyard...

In my view, the process you are talking about has nothing to do with the workings of the Brain.

You see, we now came from cat to backyard. Ofcourse you can imagine that this process is subdued when we are awake and unlocked when we go to sleep, this is what we call dreaming.

The process above can happen anytime as a person is actively thinking.

The same thing happens when we take hallucinogenic drug, although a little bit more complicated

Indeed...

Now back to my analogy about the different assumptions between people when reading a book. This happens in a similar way with what described above, although in a less intense way. We both read "house", and I associate it with a "stone house", were you associate it with "wood house". This is perhapse because where I live houses are made of stone and I automatically associate it with it, wereas you don't. Perfectly normal, but distorted nevertheless.

What is distorted?
Please notice that the "house" remained a "house" no matter who thinks what kind of "house" is that. The author of the book meant to talk about a house and the impression different people may get about the "house" is totally left to the reader. Therefore, I conclude that no distortion has happened here. No matter what impressions/associations may different people have about a house, they all agree to the reality that according to what is written in the book, everyone is talking about a "house". The original impression of the "house" made by the author is not "distorted".

If anyone would start to think about a house and may come to the conclusion that it's a "building" and assumes that there was a "building" through a process similar to the one you showed above, It means that the person has "distorted" the original message of the author of the book.

Immagine that a person would take hallucinogenic drugs and come up to a "statue" through a similar process as you have shown above. Do you know what grave distortion would it be to assume that "there was a statue" instead of a "house"?

Does it happen artificailly and automatically??? I would describe drugs as a brain enhancer. It enhances brain functions to such a level where you can't seperate reality from illusions. Everything that happen due to drugs was something that was already "normal" for the brain, but "pumped-up". What do you think controls your emotions and diffection moods?? Your brain is FULL of drugs, if you haven't noticed already. They are in small doses ofcourse. Drugs just surpasses the normal doses in your brain.

When you take hallucinogenic drugs. You have no conscious control over what happens. You may get separated from your phisical body and go to an astral plane where you are not meant to be. You may see a light there and think that you have beome enlightened.

I know the chemical composition of the brain is complex. But I seriously doubt that we have Hallucinogenic drugs in our brain. Though I agree that Hallucinogenic drugs may somehow "alter" the chemical composition of the brain.

I think that the emotions and the mood are not controlled by the phisical body. I rather think that the fluidic body and the astral body are involved.

[bomohwkl]

According to Cambriddge advanced learner dictionary:
enlightenment: the state of understanding something

Spiritual enlightenment is just a state of gaining spiritual understanding.
When we said someone has achived enlightenment, eg Buddha, it means that he has achieved profound spiritual understanding of him and the universe around him. For Buddha his spiritual understanding is summarized in the four noble truth and the noble eightfold path. Hallucinatory drugs have the effect of distorting the perception and hence called hallucination.

hallucination : when you see, hear, feel or smell something which does not exist, usually because you are ill or have taken a drug.

Any understanding that gained using hallucinatory drugs will not constitute the reality of the universe.

The way we think is via association. Such association can tell alot about the person perception and even their past history of life.

Even if you achieved enlightenment there are more spiritual understanding that can be gained which could lead to second enligtenment.

Qualititively, enlightenment can be described as an accelerelated increase of understanding of you and the universe. The aura increases and expands more permanantly as more spiritual understanding is encoded.

[Alisima]

hallucination : when you see, hear, feel or smell something which does not exist, usually because you are ill or have taken a drug.

What about hypnotic imagery?? I have often seen beautifull houses, people's faces, streets, sky's and much more complex scenery in my meditations. Where do they come from?? In fact, where does something which does not exist, as you explained in your definition, come from?? And how can we experience, see, hear, feel or smell, something which does not exist??

[Yothu]

Isn't this an argument between people who take drugs or have taken them and people that do not want to take them? Where does it lead?

If we refer to the book it states that "media and drugs" are a major CURSE on earth. It clearly states that there is DANGER involved in taking drugs.

I don't see any reason why to take them and/or find reasons to take them. The more we discuss taking drugs together with the phenomenon of enlightenment (which nobody of us here achieved right now, because we're still talking so much) the more we contribute to the aspect of spreading "the good word" about how beneficial it is to use drugs in the process of evolution and enlightenment.
I may have many flaws, but I don't think they are.

Don't things that do not exist come from your imagination?
---

A story from Kundalini-Support.com

Spirit Guides And Kundalini
Background:

As a child I read thousands of books, mostly fantasy/sci-fi novels. This easily led to an interest in metaphysics and psychic powers in me at a young age. I found myself concentrating on my third eye in order to astral travel by the age of 9. Personality-wise I was a double-Gemini, super-Vata personality, very much living in the world of contemplation and witness observation. This led me to live somewhat out of the normal social groups. I used to wish that I did not have to live in a human body and could just travel around and explore as a spirit. I am sure that this basic make-up heavily influenced my desires in my later years.

In retrospect, I can see that my true spiritual experiences began around the time I began using LSD in college when I was 19. I had actually just started drug-use at this time, only just recently having gotten stoned and drunk when I was late 18, early 19. At first I found LSD use to be incredibly visual and body oriented. After about the fifth time of use I began to seriously use the tool for inner exploration of my own personality and inner reality. This was completely spontaneous, I had not really read any books on real meditation on the inner self, or any healing books at this time. By about the tenth time I was having realizations about how much I did not like aspects of myself and really wanted to go through some deep work to become a better person. Looking back now, I can see that the kundalini presence was at work even then, leading me in this direction. I am quite sure of this. I actually was feeling other presences at this time, very subtle, yet I did not quite 'admit it' consciously. I started getting turned onto various spiritual books by other people, I was an avid reader of Carlos Castenada's series and then began to read the Barbara Brennan's 'Hands's of Light' book. This aroused much interest in me for the healing arts. At this time my motivation was based on how cool it would be to be a healer and have energy abilities and be able to see auras.

I soon moved to New Mexico, where spirituality is somewhat more prominent and I eventually found myself working at a holistic healing center, making friends with many therapists and energy healers, and of course this furthered my interest in healing abilities. I took Reiki I from a fairly well-known healer and channeler in this area and began a serious study of the Reiki system. I began to try to contact my Reiki spirit guides, as alot of Reiki practitioners do. This was a regular part of my meditation system at this time, and included alot of prayers for divine light to fill me and heal me and work through me. Also during this time I was heavily into LSD and mushrooms and was beginning to have many interesting consciousness effects while they were in use such as Unity consiousness with other people and synesthesia, as well as healing of life issues, new and expanded feeling states, etc. After taking Reiki and starting to try and contact my spirit guides when I tripped I was usually aware of another presence or presences plural which were heavily influencing my trips.

It was about this time in my life that my interest in worldy things began to decline and I began to not even be interested in healing per se, just any psychic powers I could get my hands on. I was also still very much into the regular use of hallucinogens. I experienced my first spontaneous yoga movements while listening to some devotional Indian music on LSD. Soon I was having slight spontaneous movements every time I tripped, but not while straight yet. I moved around the country a few times during this time and also trained for a Reiki master level from a teacher in Texas. I often wonder if being around 'accomplished' or long term Reiki healers results in somewhat the same thing as shaktipat.

In New Mexico again, about three years ago I read the book 'Autobiography of a Yogi' by Swami Yogananda and loved it. Probably because it was full of tales of miraculous powers and such. Let me point out that at this time I was not quite interested in the quality of feeling states that I possessed, ie I did not care about being a 'lover' yet - had actually forgotten the taste of love altogether, I was all into psychic powers and strange excursions into unknown consiousness territory. One day after I finished the book by Yogananda I saw I sign advertising initiation into Kriya yoga. Of course I went and was initiated. I was soon practicing the kriya yoga techniques twice a day. Probably a week after kriya yoga initiation I took some mushrooms and began experiencing spontaneous yoga hand mudras and was made to 'bow down' by some other force. I was also 'given' some very nice and highly refined states of feeling/bliss/consciousness. Soon I moved up to Portland, OR, on behalf of some dreams I had that I would find my soul mate there. At this time I was also chanting 'Om Namah Shiva' alot and studying tantra as well. During one session of chanting 'Om Namah Shivaya' I think I really cleared out alot of my own 'monkey mind' - well enough that it was pretty silent. I entered a somewhat heightened state and heard a voice that was not my own, which made a comment on my meditative efforts. This was the first 'voice' or communication that I heard in my spiritual travels, it was to become pretty commonplace in another half of a year. In Portland, for some reason, I barely did any hallucinogens for a period of a 6 months or so (maybe two times). Each time I tripped I could definitely feel another presence that was teaching me about myself, and coaxing me on in various ways - also was experiecning 'spontaneous kriyas' during these few trips. Just a side note - the personality, and types of spontaneous kriyas caused by the presence were fitted into whatever spiritual system I was studying at the time. Nothing really spiritually interesting happened during this time outside of my hallucinogen use. I lost interest in meditating for various reasons and basically no longer saw myself as a member of the kriya yoga lineage about 4 months after initiation. In the next 6 month period I began jumping from one spiritual system to the next, studying quabballah, sufism, yogas of va! rious types, and reading only spiritual books after this point - I was looking for the elation and effects from the various systems -trying to find the one that matched me best. I also began to seriously question my 'spirit guides' at this point and was soon able to ask a question silently, clear my mind, and recieve an answer. Note that the answers were not very clear and involved some research often times. I began keeping a journal of questions and answers.

The beginning of the more hardcore kundalini manifestations:

I was soon using hallucinogens regularly at this point - it was so easy to access true spiritual experiences and states with them. I also had the added use of nitrous oxide in conjunction with the hallucinogen use which combined started what I see as the beginning of the real body integration with the shakti. My theory on this was that the nitrous oxide would somehow relax my body state enough so that the shakti could more deeply enter me at that time. I would experience various effects every time I tripped. The kriyas would come when I looked for them. Once strange odors began to emanate from my body, really delightful smelling fragrances. I am not sure if perhaps my olfactory center in the brain was being affected or whether it was a real-world smell. But I know it was caused by the kundalini shakti.

I began to study yoga, dance, ecstatic movement and statement techniques, Osho's trance/dance techniques, sufi dances of peace, and many other methods - I was looking for spiritual excitement and was very serious about it. Soon my spiritual interests began to consume much of my attention. I was attending college at this time and I skipped the last 6 weeks and basically took some type of hallucinogen in combination with nitrous oxide every 2-3 days. I was practicing pure witness consciousness as often as possible, in conjunction with the Hong-Sau breath mantra and some sufi mantras. I began practicing pranayamas daily, nadi sodhana, and surya beda - I was actually attempting to raise my kundalini now, which I had read about for years, and I thought for sure if I raised it all the way I would become truly enlightened and empowered . I would occasionally fast, practiced head stands, intense yoga postures, and was to a large extent misusing my body carelessly in order to get some kind of spiritual high (spirituality can be an addiction too). I was now communicating with my 'spirit guides' all day long throughout the day using the question/answer method, whether I was straight or not -soon I was able to hear them quite easily and casually. Also during this time I was experiencing intense healing of childhood issues and present issues which opened up whole resavoirs of emotional energy. In one session of this type of release therapy I cried for the first time in 10 years or more. It soon became my goal to have as many different types of emotional releases as possible, and soon I was able to do it more and more, usually using hallucinogens, sometimes alchohol. Finally I became adept at really feeling strong and deeply while straight. I was finally becoming interested in developing my ability to love and feel deeply. It was at this point that I started to realize the value of emotional ecstacy and bliss. I believe that this was one of the most powerful aids to the actual true kundalini awakening - the emotional upsurges, from where ever they came. This fits in with the old adage of developing bhakti, or devotion - I believe this was exactly what I was doing - first I was learning to love myself, and soon I was loving the whole world.

The last stages:

It was during this intense use of hallucinogens and sadhanas that I was experiencing the major energy manifestations and true integration. Most of it happened within a one month period of time. Now when I was tripping the trip was being led by this presence within me, my emotions, thoughts, and energies were being guided by this presence, in order to heal me, and to bring it's presence closer. Various internal kriyas were being experienced, such as nostrils opening and closing on their own, microcosmic orbits, energy rushing up and down the spine, chakra breathing, pains and pressures in various chakra locations, and all over the brain, amazing images were playing across my inner vision world, images which were all directly controlled by the shakti, abrupt chemical/mood changes, etc...I went through many fears of being possessed by negative entities, and many fabricated realities which I thought were true for a while, I really believed that I was so on to attain extraordinary powers like levitating, that I would be a siddha master. After a certain intense session, it became quite obvious that I no longer needed the drugs, the shakti was so deeply in my system, that it was as if two people were living in one body. The shakti could now completely control my body/mind/emotions, without my use of any drugs. I then stopped using drugs - to take a break - my body was pretty worn down. I did not use any drugs whatsoever for the next 6 months. The strange pressures in the brain and nervous system continued daily for a few months after this. I also went through a month of experiencing little pin pricks all over my body - which I assume to be the clearance of the nadis. Occasionally I would feel pain and sensations in a somewhat larger area in or around the prostate. I assume this was the muladhara. Note that I had not felt anything in this area until the very end. In my case the kundalini awakening seems to have been from the top! down.

After this point I had to rid myself of some false reality beliefs, which are too detailed to go into here. The psychic phenomena wound down at this point, though the shakti's presence was around me 24 hours a day. It soon became commonplace to experience various states of ecstacy, which were much more intense and cleaner than any drug experience I have ever had, though they usually lasted a very short time. I also have experienced daily 'spontaneous movements' since then, though I would say it is more like there is another person using my body with as much skill and finesse as I myself can (maybe more?). Often times my dreams at night would be directed by the shakti. She can also play many cool awareness games with me - she can manifest small images in the center of my vision, make parts of my body feel extremely large or small (or cause just about any kind of sensation on my 'feeling body' etheric?), put me to sleep, take away various natural body pains temporarily, produce just about any natural hormone from various glands, and others - in short I believe she has complete control over my voluntary and involuntary nervous system. Obviously there is still and will probably be for years a process of slow change going on. I feel that my intelligence has increased markedly, my awareness abilities, feeling states etc. all seem to becoming more refined as the years go on. My attachments become less and less, a work of some type continues. There is nothing too exciting in any particular day though. I am still getting past the let-down stage, after all of the fire works, I thought for sure that my life would rapidly change. It seems that all of the intense fireworks were for the purpose of getting a deeper connection with the shakti. Note that I have tripped only about 5 times in the last 2 years since the awakening and have barely done any drugs. When I did trip, nothing spiritually spectacular would really happen that I couldn't get without the drugs with some effort at being aware. I am not presently meditating since the 'big awakening'. All in all, I would say I spent a total of maybe 2 years in a somewhat depressed/manic state due to the kundalini's effects. This was before the major awakening. Since then I have pretty much only have had to deal with the let-down phase, the realizations that the world is pretty much the same as ever. My ego illusions are being dropped one by one - I do not even want to become some great healer, spiritual leader, siddha master, or any of those roles anymore. I am becoming content with pursuing a healthy way of life and living simply. I can definitely see the role of the kundalini shakti in shaping me in this way.

Personal beliefs about Kundalini shakti (probably of a transitory nature, of course):

She is somewhat merciless in many ways, but she is is also compassionate, she has never really let me suffer for too long at any time throughout the whole process. It seems that she has very little actual goals for me personally - I personally believe that she for the most part is very aloof from human interests in the area of the small 'self', only in the areas of the larger whole. She is definitely not some great force of 'good', nor of course evil. For example, I am quite sure that I could go rob banks, go on a murder spree, whatever, and she would do nothing to stop it but watch - although I truly believe she could stop it if she wanted to. Nor does she really answer any questions as to the nature of her own reality and purpose. I think that anyone who speaks on behalf of the kundalini is more likely speaking on behalf of themself. No matter what master or great teacher you follow, it seems that their personal ideas of the 'way to be', virtues to cultivate, etc. are their own only. Never has the kundalini shakti told me how to act, or intructed me in any way. My level of communication with her is just about as close as you can get, if it were any closer we would be the same person, so there is no chance of miscommunication. She does however seem to hold an interest in helping me overcome those aspects of myself that I personally feel that I want to overcome. More and more I think that she is only motivated by true desire/feeling, but not at all by dry emotionless ego thoughts about how I would like to be.

© Copyright Kaleb Thompson 2001

[bomohwkl]

In fact, where does something which does not exist, as you explained in your definition, come from??

The something about whether something constitute the REALITY of the universe has been discussed and I am not going to repeat it. In short, it is limited and determined by our understanding and awareness.