And since we're talking about destruction, what other words should I use...
Something nice and fluffy? Something political, like "proactive dismantling" Lach
The Monetary System
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Guest
Thats true, Meedan, I suppose suppressed wasn't the right word to use. How about, feelings of violence that I have managed to get under control, but occasionally slip out in literary references...
And since we're talking about destruction, what other words should I use... Something nice and fluffy? Something political, like "proactive dismantling"
Lach
And since we're talking about destruction, what other words should I use...
Something nice and fluffy? Something political, like "proactive dismantling" Lach
I don't think there's anything wrong with using 'destroy' in this case. It is just a word. In this context, I think it's as good as any other.
I moved some of the posts about 'suppressed emotions' over here:
http://goldenplanetforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=574#574
I did not wish to move all the relevant posts, as that would have disrupted this thread..
regards,
z
http://goldenplanetforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=574#574
I did not wish to move all the relevant posts, as that would have disrupted this thread..
regards,
z
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
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ellierichards
root of all evil
i believe money could easily be disposed of ,even if for a period of time most people would show their true greed.
if it was down to me
i would
introduce id cards (but with a difference)
a id card could be inssued to those that wanted one .
the card would give them acess to everthing,and everywhere
but ,if a offence is committed the past time ,hobbie acessed most often would be restricted for a nominal period of time ,thus imposing punishment
But of coare there would be conditions attached
Basic sensible rules
individual complete a forty hour week
and probably lots of others that i can think of presently
if it was down to me
i would
introduce id cards (but with a difference)
a id card could be inssued to those that wanted one .
the card would give them acess to everthing,and everywhere
but ,if a offence is committed the past time ,hobbie acessed most often would be restricted for a nominal period of time ,thus imposing punishment
But of coare there would be conditions attached
Basic sensible rules
individual complete a forty hour week
and probably lots of others that i can think of presently
The one of the probable way of making people understand it is possible to have not only moneyless society but a happy, healithier, loving and enjoyable life is to create a small community of our own which evolves in that priciples. Such a community can INSPIRE other people to think as it provide a CONTRAST for people to see. At the moment, people cannot imagine otherwise. Actons are needed.I think a prerequisite for overcoming materialism is for people to wake up to the reality that they do have a spirit, and they exist for the primary purpose of evolving spiritually. Once they understand this, I am sure many people will open their eyes and realise what a terrible effect money has on their psyche. My talk of creating small communities is not going to stop the current spiritual fall of our civilisation.
Hoping that the coming catastrophic disaster might signal a new change of civilisation is not enough. It is just like hoping you will be saved without doing anything to save yourself.
The problem is that it would encourage greediness and even glorify greediness. A person can drink lots of alcoholic everyday and get hangover the next day and access of free medical services without even commiting any criminal acts. A person can even 'limbo' around of life without commiting offence. People just don't realize what is the purpose of living besides to live to earn money and to live in order to live. Misery continues................[/quote]even if for a period of time most people would show their true greed.....the card would give them acess to everthing,and everywhere
People where I live you must understand have the true disire to be better then others around them. They see having more wealth as the way to attain this.
It consumes some people, others are more wise though still. I was with a freind yesterday he said he rather just have a happy life then focus on money at all.
It consumes some people, others are more wise though still. I was with a freind yesterday he said he rather just have a happy life then focus on money at all.
‘And there we are. When you push away your neighbours, your son or your daughter - if you aren’t always ready to help even those whom you don’t like, you contribute to the disintegration of your civilisation. And this is what is happening on Earth more and more, through hate and violence."
Thao
Thao
Why would one like to 'change', to 'abolish' a monetary system? For one's own sake? Aren't you happy enough with your life now? (I was having a time where I was not and I sought for the reason in the outside world) If not for your own then perhaps for the sake of others? Do you know that what is going to be good for you (if it really is) is also good for somebody else?
In spite of lessons to learn: Do you think that 'understanding can be accelerated' (this was a topic once on TFOC-RF)? I believe that changes will occur naturally when the time is right and a critical mass of people have changed their way of thinking and imagining. As Ghandi once said: "India is not ripe enough to be free yet..."
Perhaps this is also the case with 'our world'. Though I know that there are some islands (Tonga for example) where people live happily without the use of money. Communities like the ones which are described here on this forum are not a new idea, nor have they not been created yet by some 'free-thinkers'.
I am not pessimistic, rather I am very skeptical if anything can be done 'that fast and in this form'. Our brothers from the Golden Planet won't give us any plans to do this or that, they would seed inspiration among us, which I think they did already.
So it is rather the form in which 'the call for a spiritual civilization' is done here that makes me skeptical if this is going to work.
Somebody said to me: Delivery is the key to perk up ears for people to want to hear more.
I'll be glad to hear your comments and critics of course to the above statement of mine
Greetings
In spite of lessons to learn: Do you think that 'understanding can be accelerated' (this was a topic once on TFOC-RF)? I believe that changes will occur naturally when the time is right and a critical mass of people have changed their way of thinking and imagining. As Ghandi once said: "India is not ripe enough to be free yet..."
Perhaps this is also the case with 'our world'. Though I know that there are some islands (Tonga for example) where people live happily without the use of money. Communities like the ones which are described here on this forum are not a new idea, nor have they not been created yet by some 'free-thinkers'.
I am not pessimistic, rather I am very skeptical if anything can be done 'that fast and in this form'. Our brothers from the Golden Planet won't give us any plans to do this or that, they would seed inspiration among us, which I think they did already.
So it is rather the form in which 'the call for a spiritual civilization' is done here that makes me skeptical if this is going to work.
Somebody said to me: Delivery is the key to perk up ears for people to want to hear more.
I'll be glad to hear your comments and critics of course to the above statement of mine
Greetings
If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you always got.
perfecteconomy.com: mathematically perfect economy
The web site "People for Mathematically Perfected Economy (PFMPE)", http://www.perfecteconomy.com, presents a detailed case for why our current monetary system is terrible as a whole and what is a perfect alternative. (Note it is not about abolishing monetary systems, as "Thiaoouba Prophecy" says would be actually the most perfect.)
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
i think the only way for all of us to abandon this monetary system is twofold: first to learn how it is corrupt, and im talking the inner-inner-inner workings of it. The interest that is created out of numbers on a screen, money borrowed that does not exist, creating market speculation and controlling what products and services are produced, how much, for whom, and why [like oil for example, the #1 asset in the present system]. How exactly do those that create a money 'supply' get the permission to simply create one???
Are they paid 'money' for that?? Or are they supported by other INDIVIDUALS with high influence, to DO this work? And to what ends are these individuals genuinely concerned with human welfare? [im sure at some level they must be, right?]
Unfortunately at the root of it I do see this systsem as oppression, simply because its 'always' been happening, with the t-word [taxes]. Money is a power symbol : A reminder that someone else w/lots of it, that you never hear about, uses to control its supply, demand, and purchasing power - but we forget this since all the way down the supply line we are exchanging goods and services only first through possessing and processing [what we do to get it] it, which of coruse affects our lives directly.
It may not be oppression because food transportation medicine and housing are basic needs, and there are subsidies like 'food stamps', 'public transportation', 'hmos' and 'hybrid cars', but it is oppression, because the way in which these above are procured by those responsible for it, are in the hands of very big interest groups, headed by those doing businses with private bankers w/way too much money --- yet there are those who disagree b/c the capitalist camp could say 'those individuals worked hard to get where they are' and im sure they actually have -- but, this gets to the heart of what a CORPORATION is: not a human beling, legally, so one w/vast power and resource control is one who behaves like a corporation. Not in the interest of humanity [most cases], but of constantly GROWING.
On the one hand it seems 'reasonable enough' that if we didnt charge people to buy things, our communities wouldnt have money to build roads, maintain hospitals and roads, pay doctors to work. Some salaries for certain jobs are somewhat reasonably doled out. The real issue is, in the largest picture imaginable [in reality], where does the money come from and go to [taxes, payroll at jobs, product pricing], and at what point does money actually become a method of sabotage? How do we prevent falling into the trap that communism did, it started out ideal then went horribly wrong!
The flaw, to me [ive had a lot of time to think about this], lies in the assignment of value.
Has anyone read the e-book 'understanding money' by Rajiv Parekh [is that correct spelling Raj]?
How will value be re-assigned 'afterwards' ?? In this present system if you examine pricing of certain items, some of what I feel is value-less is in monetary cost terms actually expensive, while other products seemingly of tremendous value like a used collectors item on eBay that is great [use your imagination] is very inexpensive. Sometimes I wonder how nonsensical two identical things unrelated to each other and w/different utility, cost the SAME THING. Obviously different people have different feeligns on what is VALUABLE and IMPORTANT to have. Or what is wanted. I strongly also feel that certain 'wants' are needs in a sense, as well, in terms of what are products not necessary to material survival.
Obviously if we all had no system in which to reorganize our "material value system of exchange" there would be more chaos, not less!! So some sort of organization is needed.
An organization is only as moral as those who head it. The HOURS system of exchange is an interesting concept, although I cannot quite understand it yet. Basically time is exchanged for material needs.
To me the dangerous 4 list should reverse the importance of money and politicians, since in the end it is people who do damage, not a THING. The thing can only get its power from the people who make it actually happen [leaders vs oppressors]. Yet of course, the thing that should not be, the money, the barrier -- must be removed because it is fundamentally constructed on deliberate oppression.
A new system should be based on established exchange situations, and by the way Ive read the entire mathematically perfected economy paper, and another one called 'gift economy' I believe it was. [same one??] The ONLY PROBLEM is how to ENFORCE compliance to it, to avoid corruption of it?? This will prove to be difficult, wouldn't it, at a time in history such as it is now??
Any ideas on that?
Are they paid 'money' for that?? Or are they supported by other INDIVIDUALS with high influence, to DO this work? And to what ends are these individuals genuinely concerned with human welfare? [im sure at some level they must be, right?]
Unfortunately at the root of it I do see this systsem as oppression, simply because its 'always' been happening, with the t-word [taxes]. Money is a power symbol : A reminder that someone else w/lots of it, that you never hear about, uses to control its supply, demand, and purchasing power - but we forget this since all the way down the supply line we are exchanging goods and services only first through possessing and processing [what we do to get it] it, which of coruse affects our lives directly.
It may not be oppression because food transportation medicine and housing are basic needs, and there are subsidies like 'food stamps', 'public transportation', 'hmos' and 'hybrid cars', but it is oppression, because the way in which these above are procured by those responsible for it, are in the hands of very big interest groups, headed by those doing businses with private bankers w/way too much money --- yet there are those who disagree b/c the capitalist camp could say 'those individuals worked hard to get where they are' and im sure they actually have -- but, this gets to the heart of what a CORPORATION is: not a human beling, legally, so one w/vast power and resource control is one who behaves like a corporation. Not in the interest of humanity [most cases], but of constantly GROWING.
On the one hand it seems 'reasonable enough' that if we didnt charge people to buy things, our communities wouldnt have money to build roads, maintain hospitals and roads, pay doctors to work. Some salaries for certain jobs are somewhat reasonably doled out. The real issue is, in the largest picture imaginable [in reality], where does the money come from and go to [taxes, payroll at jobs, product pricing], and at what point does money actually become a method of sabotage? How do we prevent falling into the trap that communism did, it started out ideal then went horribly wrong!
The flaw, to me [ive had a lot of time to think about this], lies in the assignment of value.
Has anyone read the e-book 'understanding money' by Rajiv Parekh [is that correct spelling Raj]?
How will value be re-assigned 'afterwards' ?? In this present system if you examine pricing of certain items, some of what I feel is value-less is in monetary cost terms actually expensive, while other products seemingly of tremendous value like a used collectors item on eBay that is great [use your imagination] is very inexpensive. Sometimes I wonder how nonsensical two identical things unrelated to each other and w/different utility, cost the SAME THING. Obviously different people have different feeligns on what is VALUABLE and IMPORTANT to have. Or what is wanted. I strongly also feel that certain 'wants' are needs in a sense, as well, in terms of what are products not necessary to material survival.
Obviously if we all had no system in which to reorganize our "material value system of exchange" there would be more chaos, not less!! So some sort of organization is needed.
An organization is only as moral as those who head it. The HOURS system of exchange is an interesting concept, although I cannot quite understand it yet. Basically time is exchanged for material needs.
To me the dangerous 4 list should reverse the importance of money and politicians, since in the end it is people who do damage, not a THING. The thing can only get its power from the people who make it actually happen [leaders vs oppressors]. Yet of course, the thing that should not be, the money, the barrier -- must be removed because it is fundamentally constructed on deliberate oppression.
A new system should be based on established exchange situations, and by the way Ive read the entire mathematically perfected economy paper, and another one called 'gift economy' I believe it was. [same one??] The ONLY PROBLEM is how to ENFORCE compliance to it, to avoid corruption of it?? This will prove to be difficult, wouldn't it, at a time in history such as it is now??
Any ideas on that?
It's not as simple as that however
EVERYBODY (well, most people), their minds revolve around money.
Churches, priests, religions, politics, jobs, practically everywhere you look there's the focus on money.
Since it's so integrated into their minds, they can't think of any other solutions to nature's problems but to use money to fix it. IS money natural? *** is it going to fix nature if it was never part of it.
We have to get more and more people, who are more open and intelligent to realize how corrupt the system is. How can we do that without disturbing their autonomy and freedom of choice?
Hmmm, well God created nature to be BEAUTIFUL and so INTRUIGING, people simply had to enjoy it and appreciate it.
Key word: beauty
We have to show people the beauty of nature, the beauty of life, and most importantly the beauty of their own self.
It's so hard to find people like these nowadays, but we have some on this website. We need people to actually join up, and show the potential of human beings. We have to show them that they are the Purpose of the Universe..
To do all this there has to be a plan, a well designed plan, just like everything was designed using a plan (the universe, a house, anything that was made using a plan). How are we gonna find a plan? First off, you need to make sure that it doesnt coincede with the Purpose, and second before you do anything, we have to get rid of fear.
It's hard to get rid of fear.
But what is fear? Why do we get scared?
For example, a baby would get scared if a grandma told him that "the grinch is gonna get you:P" (My grandma does that to gain control over him and make him eat)
I want to explore this example more.
The child got scared, only because he didn't understand or know enough to say that the grinch isn't real.
Also, WHY does my grandma want to make him scared?
Isn't that because she wants to make him do what she wants?
So we've established, that by making people scared you can control them, and the only way to let yourself be scared is if you don't know or dont understand enough.
How to get rid of fear? Use your intellect. TRY to understand people's motives. TRY to figure out a logical solution without being scared, because it's hard to think when you're scared. TRY to find ways (the most effective) that will prove to you that what's scaring you is BS, for there's nothing to be scared of.
Then you have to experiment, actually, try to figure out the rest yourselves. Just remember to use your intellect, and that you can only get scared, if you let yourself get scared.
lol, looks like i just went off topic. but anyway, once we've got rid of fear, we need to get rid of all negative thoughts, because they clutter the mind. Thoughts like hatred, jealousy etc...
I'll continue this post later, i gotta go eat breakfast
EVERYBODY (well, most people), their minds revolve around money.
Churches, priests, religions, politics, jobs, practically everywhere you look there's the focus on money.
Since it's so integrated into their minds, they can't think of any other solutions to nature's problems but to use money to fix it. IS money natural? *** is it going to fix nature if it was never part of it.
We have to get more and more people, who are more open and intelligent to realize how corrupt the system is. How can we do that without disturbing their autonomy and freedom of choice?
Hmmm, well God created nature to be BEAUTIFUL and so INTRUIGING, people simply had to enjoy it and appreciate it.
Key word: beauty
We have to show people the beauty of nature, the beauty of life, and most importantly the beauty of their own self.
It's so hard to find people like these nowadays, but we have some on this website. We need people to actually join up, and show the potential of human beings. We have to show them that they are the Purpose of the Universe..
To do all this there has to be a plan, a well designed plan, just like everything was designed using a plan (the universe, a house, anything that was made using a plan). How are we gonna find a plan? First off, you need to make sure that it doesnt coincede with the Purpose, and second before you do anything, we have to get rid of fear.
It's hard to get rid of fear.
But what is fear? Why do we get scared?
For example, a baby would get scared if a grandma told him that "the grinch is gonna get you:P" (My grandma does that to gain control over him and make him eat)
I want to explore this example more.
The child got scared, only because he didn't understand or know enough to say that the grinch isn't real.
Also, WHY does my grandma want to make him scared?
Isn't that because she wants to make him do what she wants?
So we've established, that by making people scared you can control them, and the only way to let yourself be scared is if you don't know or dont understand enough.
How to get rid of fear? Use your intellect. TRY to understand people's motives. TRY to figure out a logical solution without being scared, because it's hard to think when you're scared. TRY to find ways (the most effective) that will prove to you that what's scaring you is BS, for there's nothing to be scared of.
Then you have to experiment, actually, try to figure out the rest yourselves
. Just remember to use your intellect, and that you can only get scared, if you let yourself get scared.lol, looks like i just went off topic. but anyway, once we've got rid of fear, we need to get rid of all negative thoughts, because they clutter the mind. Thoughts like hatred, jealousy etc...
I'll continue this post later, i gotta go eat breakfast
If a blind man leads another, they will both fall into a pit. -Jesus Christ
The no-mind not-thinks no-thoughts about no thing.
Gautama Buddha
The no-mind not-thinks no-thoughts about no thing.
Gautama Buddha
here is a site that I would like to share, with all of you. I may have already mentioned it before I dont think I have, but here it is:
http://zerocurrency.blogspot.com/
it was just recently updated, and is basically the diary of a man who lives this idea of moneyless living/sharing with others, from travelling [yea it involves hitchhiking - which Ive never done actually] but there are interesting stories for sure that he has to share.
here is a trailer for a movie/documentary he may have done:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... id=7099207
http://zerocurrency.blogspot.com/
it was just recently updated, and is basically the diary of a man who lives this idea of moneyless living/sharing with others, from travelling [yea it involves hitchhiking - which Ive never done actually] but there are interesting stories for sure that he has to share.
here is a trailer for a movie/documentary he may have done:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea ... id=7099207
How can you remove a system that is fundamental to everyday life when no one sees any problems with it? In fact, they like it and want it.
Perhaps the problem isn't with money itself, but the system built upon it that sparks inequality and jealousy. An easy solution to inequality is to make everyone's hourly wage the same - but this will contrast and make more prominent jealousy issues of, "I do more work than he does, I deserve more money." Slippery slope.
Perhaps the problem isn't with money itself, but the system built upon it that sparks inequality and jealousy. An easy solution to inequality is to make everyone's hourly wage the same - but this will contrast and make more prominent jealousy issues of, "I do more work than he does, I deserve more money." Slippery slope.