Drugs

General discussion about the two books by Michel Desmarquet. Please ONLY post questions that do not fit in any of the available specialized forums.

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bomohwkl
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Post: # 7767Post bomohwkl »

dloheb wrote:You find that because something is difficult to verify it should be ignored? My question was, afterall, what would happen in such a case, even hypothetically speaking...

I am sure that there are quite a lots of things in our life that keeps us busy. In order to verify such occurence, i suspect that I might need to spend a few months in China solely to investigate such event. If such occurence is claimed to be true, I wonder what else I could do to deter such occurence. I could actively involve in spreading the awareness abroad and in the hope that foreign countries will exert an impact to prevent such occurence? Such strategy has proven to be very ineffective use of time and resource. Take an example of Sadam Hussein's reign in Iraq. Furthermore, such occurence is out of my scope of my responsibility. If people of China really want to prevent such occurence, they themselves that need to raise above it. Change is easier when there is unity which is unshaken by fear.

However, if I do find that verification of the truth would result my actions that greatly benefit to the community, I wouldn't hesistate to act.
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Rezo
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Re: Drugs

Post: # 10451Post Rezo »

Since I'm assuming the blocked parts of the aura of people with physical illnesses, there is long time of symptom delay, one might assume the same for drug use; the hole in the aura results. Although sometimes changes in personality can be immediate to others, so maybe its the opposite, since and this is just going by hunch, since a blockage holds things in to accumulate, a hole leaks things out - then a dissolving or piercing of the astral membrane for lack of clarification, would cause leakages of a specific nature or severity, that would need an 'astral band aid' or if more serious astral 'surgery' like read about in the far east [reiki, or tibetan psychosurgery maybe youve heard of the latter also referred in some ways as soul retrieval?]. maybe the worst noises and drugs cause both blockage and holes too.

For what this is worth, if anyone has ever looked into flower essenses in their applications for emotional problems, theres a site claiming it heals holes in the aura, and a particular flower of aloe, can do this [astral bandaid?], when it is due to psychoactive drugs [kauai essences from 'starmen international' [?]]: of course I dont lean on it, but there is something I think to be said of flower remedies as flowers are few things on earth that contain what seem to be pure monochromatic colors.

http://www.starmen.com/flower_essences.html

this isn't necessarily a 'plug' [whoops there goes a pun!] - hardly a measure to go by considering it lists ayahuasca presumably in a positive light [can be powerful hallucinogen from what Ive read]. Anyone w/an aura beo-gdv scanner ever test the plants themselves [drug ones vs healing ones]? What sort of aura might one vs the other, put out? Any decisive differences between their energy fields that can be identified?
" There is a single general space, a single vast immensity which we may freely call void: in it are unnumerable globes like this on which we live and grow, this space we declare to be infinite, since neither reason, convenience, sense-perception nor nature assign to it a limit."

-Giordano Bruno
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Rezo
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Re: Drugs

Post: # 11022Post Rezo »

I wanted to add a bit on Ayahuasca - I don't understand why certain traditional shaman so often ingest this, a it must be scary, and b, it must be incredibly disorienting; its mixed a certain way w/other plant, precisely to get this to happen, I think.

Even though the elixir [to visit earth's psychosphere was given to Michel to drink while on Thiaoouba] would not be called by their standards a drug, was it natural on their planet, or of synthetic concoction? Obviously to us here now thats irrelevant since we have no access to something like this, and the potential to be irresponsible w/it.

Just wanted to post on that drink I dont think I saw it anywhere else. Also I am in no way whatsoever suggesting its anything remotely like first-mentioned substance.
" There is a single general space, a single vast immensity which we may freely call void: in it are unnumerable globes like this on which we live and grow, this space we declare to be infinite, since neither reason, convenience, sense-perception nor nature assign to it a limit."

-Giordano Bruno
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ptex
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Re: Drugs

Post: # 11028Post ptex »

It can only be due to ignorance, but a very dangerous kind of ignorance.

It's never too much to stress the following quotes both taken from page 114:
‘Drugs, similarly, affect the psyche of the individual - not only do they ruin physical health, they also reverse1 the individual’s process of universal evolution.
At the same time as they induce states of euphoria or artificial paradise, they are also directly attacking the Astral body. I will elaborate on this, for it is of great importance.
‘The Astral body can only be harmed by two things: drugs and the vibrations occasioned by certain kinds of noise. Considering only drugs, it must be understood that they have an influence that is totally against Nature.
There is something I don’t understand then,’ I interrupted. ‘Twice, now, you have given me drugs to take in order to release my Astral body from my physical body. Haven’t you, thereby, done me a disservice?’
‘No, not at all. We used a drug that is not an hallucinogen, in order to assist a process which could occur quite naturally with adequate training. It is not a drug that ‘blinds’ and therefore presents no danger to your Astral body and its effects are very short-term.
The best portion of a good man's life is his little nameless unremembered acts of kindness and love.
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Matt
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Post: # 11124Post Matt »

Alisima wrote:If spirituality can be taken away, it is not spirituality.

TP states that one will regress spiritually when taking drugs. But where does that spirituality go?? By what mechanism does one spiritually regress?? Who or what is responsible for regressing you?? How can drugs take away a part of your spirituality??

TP states this is because the astral body gets confused by the multitude of signals/information, most of which are illusionary due to the drug. But what signals, what information are we talking about?? Do you even know what happens when you take a drug?? Besides, doesn't the astral body have a filter?? Why can't it filter it out??

But if the Astral body is so quickly upset, just by some illusionary signals, why aren't dreams, or rather nightmares, just as bad?? I have had dreams where I literaly died (well, not that literaly). Why isn't that just as damaging??

If the Astral body can filter out all sort of *** we get from society, why can't it do the same with drugs??
You are very right, Alisima. Spirituality cannot be taken away. However, false information could be taken as truth.

Take this for example. A common hallucination of smoked DMT are "machine elves" which pop in and out of furniture, the kitchen sink, and whatever else have you. Some people, even smart people like Jacques Vallee, come to even believe that these elves are real - that DMT produces interdimensional sight into universes we can't normally see!

Imagine, if you will, Jacques Vallee died today still with the conviction that his imaginations were real, that they were true. Now picture this man being reborn into another life with his past memories erased. However, this fundamental conviction about his imaginations remains. Does this mental illness sound familiar?
Grad Svensson
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Re: Drugs

Post: # 11144Post Grad Svensson »

The US government has been using prolongued exposure to loud music, anything from the Barney song to Metallica, as a means of extracting information from prisoners for many years now.

Everywhere I look, it is hard because I'm reminded of how bad things are.
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Rezo
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Re: Drugs

Post: # 11180Post Rezo »

It can be hard no question. Barney song now thats plain weird....

anyway, been looking at our friend the hippocampus and entorrhinal cortex, involvement w/REM sleep, possibly the location where 'astral' body connects [speculating].

Found research implying THC / marijuana use may cause dependency to maintain REM sleep [decreases it over time]:

http://www.entrepreneur.com/tradejourna ... 20808.html [secondary source, lost primary last week, forgot to post it then]. Interesting/alarming, no?

I don't know a lot about REM sleep, is it that we only dream and go OOB when in REM, or, what goes on in REM sleep? I thought this research pretty significant, regardless.

I think this abstract is the primary, or, one of them. Very technical. http://www.websciences.org/cftemplate/N ... D=20006958
" There is a single general space, a single vast immensity which we may freely call void: in it are unnumerable globes like this on which we live and grow, this space we declare to be infinite, since neither reason, convenience, sense-perception nor nature assign to it a limit."

-Giordano Bruno
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bomohwkl
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Re: Drugs

Post: # 11299Post bomohwkl »

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Eon
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Post: # 11320Post Eon »

bomohwkl wrote:Not only they are physically harmful but frequent use of such drugs has no doubt will result in addiction.
I feel the need to point out, that hallucinogenic drugs are the least addictive, due to the fact that their effect is often unpredictable. Heroin, for example, will always make you feel good when you take it, so it is used as a crutch whener addict feels bad, which in addict's case is pretty often. In this forum hallucinogenic drugs are often reffered to as most harmful, and I don't understand this to tell the truth. From what I've seen and experienced myself, hallucinogenic drugs are easiest to give up as you don't develop physical addiction to them, and people who use them usually turn out pretty good in the end. That is not the case with drugs like heroin, amphetamin or crystal meth. Most people I've seen who are addicted to those look like walking corpses. Sure hallucinogens can make one into a complete mess, but alcohol can do it all the same, and it does more often, at least in my country, it's full of drunken degenerates who are much worse of than people who do occasional LSD or mushroom dose. Of course I can alway be wrong, and I usually am.. :) So I'm hoping this fear of hallucinogens is based on something real, rather than some statements in some hard to verify book.
"I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it." - George Carlin
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Matt
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Post: # 11322Post Matt »

Eon wrote:
bomohwkl wrote:So I'm hoping this fear of hallucinogens is based on something real, rather than some statements in some hard to verify book.
Actually, I believe it was Tom who made a specific point against hallucinogens in his Freedom of Choice book(which is wholly incomplete and contains some misconceptions, IMO). In TP, they state that psychoactive chemicals in general are harmful. Very big difference in definition.
rishmash
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Re: Drugs

Post: # 11325Post rishmash »

hi Matt,

saying that psychoactive chemicals are dangerous does not make sense, and it was actually hallucinogens that thao mentioned in the book.

if you look at certain psychoactive drugs, they simply mimick what our own physiology can already do, the only problem being we cannot induce the effects ourselves, for example heroin is an opiate (analgesic), and mimics the pain killing effects our own body can produce when experiencing physical trauma. The effects from meditation/concentration are not far from the states of oneness experienced on heroin. The problem is excessive use and abuse.

DMT is allegedly a naturally occurring in the pineal gland, and is probably the most hallucinogenic of all the drugs I have heard about. It leads to complete bilocation and fairly consistent experiences of elve encounters etc. Does sound like fun :D

The problems people experience from drugs are due to abuse and also because society has banned or outlawed them

I for one am not advocating the legalisation of so called hard drugs, because long term abuse of drugs can lead to terrible physical consequences but remember that tea and coffee were once banned substances as well

Psychoactive drugs can generally distort reality (mood mostly), and depending on the concentration and dosage, can do so markedly.

I think hallucinogens (from personal experience) create a brand new reality for a period of time, and totally and utterly distort the time you are on them, the lessons we can get in 24 hours are completely wasted and so called 'saturated with false data'

the mechanism of the damage, who knows, but hey, not gonna go down that road now that I know better
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Matt
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Re: Drugs

Post: # 11332Post Matt »

Hey rish, I just double-checked the book and you're right. My bad.

But in any case, on the subject of DMT, it's only hallucinogenic within the body when coupled with an MAOI(another class of drug).. otherwise it is so quickly absorbed by the body that it's effects cannot be perceived. Also, the amount of DMT naturally occuring within the body is so scarce that's it's trivial really. Adrenaline is also slightly hallucinogenic is huge doses if I remember correctly - it was also mentioned specifically in TP to become a lethal poison in a large enough dose(duh). Maybe DMT is similar in fashion, that it is beneficial in low amounts, but a huge intake of the drug produces completely different and ill effects?
derekb
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drugs and spirituality

Post: # 11528Post derekb »

I started taking drugs when i was 14. Ive taken marijuana, lsd, mushrooms, 2cb, ketamine, dxm, ecstasy, benzos, ritilin, alcohol, methamphetamine

Lsd mushrooms and 2cb: Started me on the path that i am on now. They opened me up intensely to all spirituality that i believe now and that is talked about on these forums. They showed me unconditional love, how everyone and everything is amazing in every way and equal, among many other things. They have made me who i am today without them i would be like most others brainwashed and stuck in this hollywood/tv/video game/ closed minded society.

Marijuana: first drug i tried opened me up to love of others and the beauty in everything. Now when i smoke i have horrible experiences worse than bad lsd trips.

Ketamine and dxm: these are dissocociative drugs. Ive had close to what is described as astral projection through the use of these substances.

ecstasy: VERY theraputic people that i have been in bitter fights with i will call and tell them how sorry i am and how much i love them. I really mean it i really see the true beauty and uniqueness within every person and i express that to them. I will see the true beauty and uniqeness in people i havent gotten along with and say to myself "why would i ever fight with this person they deserve my love just like everyone else".

Benzos and alcohol: I have social anxiety whereas ecstasy will make me think about it and all other problems to the point where i say "i was actually worrying about that? look out the window thats what really matters" these will make me not think about them. Currently i am perscribed benzos and am addicted.

ritilin and meth: did not like meth at all i felt good but i felt my ego was MUCH bigger which i hated and the crash was horrible. The ritilin i mixed with alcohol and benzos so i would be **** up but my confidence would be higher and i would talk more. It also raised my ego but only others could tell.


So at this point i stick to the psychedelics, dissocoiatives, ecstasy, and alcohol and benzos (which i soon hope to quit although i will drink socially at parties occasionally) i also smoke cigs

What ive been reading online is that all drugs especially the psychedelic drugs (which in the above description you can tell helped me more than anything else) are VERY harmful to your astral body and reincarnational future.

Im still not sure what to believe what ive read online has been based off very little sources. What do you think keeping in mind what i described above that drugs do to you spiritually?
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Robanan
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Re: drugs and spirituality

Post: # 11618Post Robanan »

Keeping in mind what you posted here... right...

Lsd mushrooms and 2cb: You can not be speaking of unconditional love because the feeling you are describing is limited to the time you were under the effect of these drugs. Most of us on this forum understand and we have spoken exhaustively about love and the "necessary conditions" that we have to meet in order to both manifest and experience love according with and conforming to our own individual needs for intellectual and spiritual development.
If what you describe as "all spirituality that i believe now" was the same as all "that is talked about on these forums" then you wouldn't have been speaking about unconditional love when describing artificially induced feelings because spiritually speaking you are experiencing feelings and allocating thoughts and attaching your beliefs to things that you are not meant to experience at all.

Marijuana: I can assure you that when I tried it, the feeling was nothing even close to what I felt toward girls. I wonder if you are capable of imagining what I felt when I realized the universe could have been by design and what amount of intelligence was necessary for someone to have in order to create all of it the way I understood it back then when I was 15 years old.

Ketamine and dxm: They are very harmful to your body because they change the way things work "normally" there. I stopped taking tha allowed prescribed doses of dxm as a cough supressant because they would give me high doses of antibiotics after it, I learned to listen to my body and cough all the bad stuff out when it needed to. I Stopped taking antibiotics altogether even though I smoke. Now with those two drugs together, you could get seriously sick and not even knowing it. Your body is carefully designed and set for you to make out the most of what can be experienced in this life. What spiritual advantage do you want to gain by numbing your body? How comes that your spiritual knowledge gained through lsd and mushrooms approve of such a thing? Do you even know that your body is made by design and why?

Now think if you still can, how many years of life do you want to live in order to fix these things up? 10? 20? 100? 1000?
I seriously doubt one life would be enough for dealing with such things considering how far you have thrown yourself away to them. This is one reason why I believe in reincarnation, the creator I know would give us enough time to fix everything, starting from now.
The essence of Consciousness, is the ability to Create, Process, Transmit and Receive Information Autonomously.
joao vieira
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Re: Drugs

Post: # 12764Post joao vieira »

You'll regress more taking drugs then most people can imagine, I have cope with it first hand and it was a great a lesson, we are talking about regressing to a point of animality! to a point where your attitude in any adverse situation is VIOLENCE, Im saying little problems... If you could what these people do their loved ones, the ones they claim to love you would not wish to be their enemies.

From high rates student you cant even be hygienic!!
From high social relations you cant even maintain any friendships...

To understand even if in a limited way the danger of drugs the longest recorded quote of jesus is explaining its dangers...

I was always intrigued by the phrase " If the Lion its the Man"..... I just didn't get it.. now i understand..

hope this enlightens some people.
Joao vieira
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