Drugs

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Drugs

Postby dloheb on Mon Jun 12, 2006 4:14 pm

What if, like some Falun Dafa practitioners in China (http://www.falundafa.org/eng/faq.htm), one is taken prisoner and forced drugs?
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Postby Lena on Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:24 pm

that sucks for them!

seriously though, as far as consequences go for the chinese government (if it is true what they are said to be doing to prisoners)... I have wondered the same thing... I also wonder about girls who have been drugged and raped, but in those cases they are usually intoxicated with alcohol or loud music first. my dentist gave me anasthetic without asking me first, but that's hardly the same thing.

in TP it talks about how the Thiaooubians intervened when the evil priests in Africa were leading their people away from spiritual development. maybe the thiaooubians are not intervening with the Falun Gong persecution because they think earthlings still have a chance to fix it or maybe they are intervening and we just don't know it.

I don't know.
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Postby Alisima on Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:33 am

Well, that may be a bummer to some. But I guess there can't be much done about it. They are obviously stronger than you so any resistance will probably only get you some spanking. So, there is no choice.

I don't know what drugs they will give you. But almost all drugs, as far as I know it, will make a switch in mindset, that is the whole idea of drugs. Probably even a different level of consciousness. Which are often accompanied with unknown/strange sensations. The worst thing you can do is NOT accept the switch in mindset and the accompanied sensations.

Don't fight it, because you won't win. In fact, the opposite is more true. If you just go in with a let-go additude and go wherever the drug may take you might even be amazed by what happens to you. Imagine you sitting there in a dark room and a spotlight pointed on you. Your whole body is dizzy and you see the whole room twirling and spinning around you. And ofcourse a small chinaman screaming and shouting for answers to his questions. If you just accept this and 'enjoy' what is happening, you won't be as overtaken as they like you to be.

In any case it is always you that gets frightened, and not because of the situation but because of your additude towards it. So take my advice, instead of going into shock just go into awe.

Ofcourse, if you have information they want from you and you don't tell them, you are ofcourse hurting yourself.
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Postby dloheb on Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:25 pm

The point is they will regress spiritually (according to TP).
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Postby Alisima on Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:44 pm

If spirituality can be taken away, it is not spirituality.

TP states that one will regress spiritually when taking drugs. But where does that spirituality go?? By what mechanism does one spiritually regress?? Who or what is responsible for regressing you?? How can drugs take away a part of your spirituality??

TP states this is because the astral body gets confused by the multitude of signals/information, most of which are illusionary due to the drug. But what signals, what information are we talking about?? Do you even know what happens when you take a drug?? Besides, doesn't the astral body have a filter?? Why can't it filter it out??

But if the Astral body is so quickly upset, just by some illusionary signals, why aren't dreams, or rather nightmares, just as bad?? I have had dreams where I literaly died (well, not that literaly). Why isn't that just as damaging??

If the Astral body can filter out all sort of *** we get from society, why can't it do the same with drugs??
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Postby dloheb on Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:59 pm

I'm just saying that based on TP. I don't make this stuff up on my own.

In TP it is explained that it could take serveral lifetimes to correct the effects of drugs, this is what I mean by "regressing spiritually".

edit: page 119 is related to your question
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Postby Lena on Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:22 am

Drugs (I think this is true for hallucinogens, not sure about the others) place the astral body where it shouldn't be. that's probably why it's not able to filter the bad stuff out. the astral body is removed from it's natural position and given false information. this could cause spiritual regression. remember the example Tom gave in his book about the people who believed they were dolphins after taking too many drugs.
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Postby Alisima on Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:15 am

I have heard of people going in such a deep meditation, and moved to what they called a different focus of consciousness, that they absolutely felt that they have become something else, a chair for instance.

And if believing that you are something else could be bad, what about hypnosis?? There have been thousands of entertainment-hypnosis, stage hypnosis as I think it is called, where the subject is, through the unconscious, believing that he now is something else, whatever the hypnotist has in store for him. Why isn't that damaging too??

dloheb wrote:In TP it is explained that it could take serveral lifetimes to correct the effects of drugs, this is what I mean by "regressing spiritually".

It is not explained in TP, it is stated. That is a whole lot of difference. Nowhere in the book have I found an explanation that it will take several lifetimes to correct the effects of drugs. Yes, they stated it. And they gave 'so-called' reasons for it. But it is not explained, nowhere.
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Postby dloheb on Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:02 pm

Alisima wrote:I have heard of people going in such a deep meditation, and moved to what they called a different focus of consciousness, that they absolutely felt that they have become something else, a chair for instance.

And if believing that you are something else could be bad, what about hypnosis?? There have been thousands of entertainment-hypnosis, stage hypnosis as I think it is called, where the subject is, through the unconscious, believing that he now is something else, whatever the hypnotist has in store for him. Why isn't that damaging too??

dloheb wrote:In TP it is explained that it could take serveral lifetimes to correct the effects of drugs, this is what I mean by "regressing spiritually".

It is not explained in TP, it is stated. That is a whole lot of difference. Nowhere in the book have I found an explanation that it will take several lifetimes to correct the effects of drugs. Yes, they stated it. And they gave 'so-called' reasons for it. But it is not explained, nowhere.


Stated, explained, whatever. To me it doesn't matter how they presented it, according to the book it's a fact. The entire book's credibility rests with it. I'll admit part of the reason I asked is to see some board member's opinions on the book.

And again I understand what you're saying but I don't know, maybe it has to do with where the astral body is.
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Postby Lena on Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:13 pm

Alisima wrote:And if believing that you are something else could be bad, what about hypnosis?? There have been thousands of entertainment-hypnosis, stage hypnosis as I think it is called, where the subject is, through the unconscious, believing that he now is something else, whatever the hypnotist has in store for him. Why isn't that damaging too??


maybe it is.
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Re: Drugs

Postby Aisin on Sat Jun 17, 2006 4:18 am

dloheb wrote:What if, like some Falun Dafa practitioners in China (http://www.falundafa.org/eng/faq.htm), one is taken prisoner and forced drugs?


Having read much about this organization, I still cannot accept what they claim to be true. I don't have solid proofs, but my instinct tells me: don't believe everything they say.

IMO the FAQ page is very misleading. Read the teachings of the founder published on their own website. I've posted some of my findings in another thread.

Regarding the 'Background' section on the FAQ page, it is the furthest from truth to claim that spiritual practices & publications are suppressed in China. Many temples and religious publications still stand, many monks or nuns still lead a spiritual life. Information on meditation techniques are freely available, even on the internet.

Our perception of the government of China is very limited and biased based on distortion by journalists. Don't forget that 'reports' on the Chinese government is only what certain media companies want us to believe, and those which have worldwide appeal are probably based in countries which are not really allies with China. I don't side any government, but I won't discount the probability that some ruling governments may indeed fear of China's continuous economic growth, and fear of losing power.
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Postby Rezo on Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:54 pm

How do Drugs hurt the soul?

If I were to guess, drugs erase feelings from perceptions. It is entirely possible that, as we all have different levels of perceptive-ness, altering the mechanism by which we relate to reality, which is our primal way to relate to the universe...alters the multi-lifetime storehouse of memory, which is housed in our persent memories of this life [lessons learned, memory word- or experience-triggers, etc. get all mixed up somehow] itself in turn, housed in our perception abilities. Its confusing though, because...wait a minute...thats what experience is in itself, isnt it? going through changes!

I guess its b/c watching garbage on tv, for example, is different from having your mind create the tv garbage on its own, obviously it has to be affecting your mind this way. [Mind/consciousnses/spirit/soul etc...im interchanging these words for same meaning here]. And yet, the arguement comes up, that is not necessarily 'garbage' that is happening. I can almost agree w/this, but I don't, because if you compare a perception-altering substance to a substance that sharpens thought or helps in meditation [ginkgo, chamomile for example help me sometimes] the latter do not cause random laughter or zombie-hungry-laziness [of course im describing pot] as well [side effects of the alterations]. True, ive had some friends who were able to be alert and say/do intelligent things while high, but the appearance of those above mentioned qualities in perception-altering substances is unmistakable, at least in my observation.

The central issue to me, is, if we can cure computer viruses, why cant we 'un-mix' what a drug does in a matter of hours or days? Why does it take a whole other lifetime of experience to undo it? The answer of course, if the book is correct in stating it as a fact, has to do with the extent of damage to consciousness and the way in which, during intoxication, one is personally affected emotionaly and what he/she is 'mentally experiencing.'

Because maybe, like a computer file infected w/such virus, memories, from perception experiences, that get altered this way, alter in effect, all the experiences that came from that particular memory which was affected [through different perception]. The best answer is b/c you have to be the person its happening to, to know how long it will take to fix, if it needs fixing, in what way it and associated memories need 'fixing', and therefore who can fix it [here on earth, or by a higher self 'doctor']. This may be why it takes so long, if I were to guess again.

Chemical ingestion is one of the most direct ways to insult an individual. The body and mind are continuous w/one another, we seem to keep forgetting this collectively as a species, in the things we do and ideas we seem to get caught in, i.e. believe. I think its terrible that Falun Gong, or anyone else -- is being forcibly drugged, its just so crazy I cant even imagine the motive. Thats just plain cruel!
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Postby bomohwkl on Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:15 pm

Hallucinogenic drugs are harmful. They are toxic. They upset your neuro-biochemical balance. Not only they are physically harmful but frequent use of such drugs has no doubt will result in addiction.

Could someone who is addicted to hallucigenic drugs progress spiritually? Can they think and act coherently when they are drugged? Can they involve in intellectually challenging task if their minds are focussed on getting another 'high' from such drugs?
A close examination of intelligent people who are addicted to drugs at their latter life serves an excellent revealation on how drugs affect one's mind.

We don't know much about astral body at scientific level. Bring astral body into the questions will not go further into the answers we are seeking. Much knowledge is needed.

I usually ignore emotionally provoking news that are very difficult to verify. I have lived in two culturally different countries. In my opinion, foreign news nowadays are rather unrealiable and strongly biased.
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Postby dloheb on Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:06 am

You find that because something is difficult to verify it should be ignored? My question was, afterall, what would happen in such a case, even hypothetically speaking...
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Postby Robanan on Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:43 am

It is not known what kind of drugs we are talking about here, but if to take any drug as an example, what happens depends on the integrity of the person (as I believe Alisima tried to point out); many drug abusers have successfully given up using drugs through known medical/traditional treatment, so it is possible to consciously limit the damaging effect of drugs, in the sense of minimizing the exposure and the addiction to drugs.

The intent of those who force drugs on others can be different, but it's all about changing (Altering) your mind frame to their likings, their purpose is to exploit their victim as much as possible.

What happens to those who are given drugs by force? it's up to them, as it is very likely that they would feel themselves victims and abused and will become drug addicts and propagate the pain and suffering further to others, it is as much possible that they will stop any further exposure to drugs and continue questing in life.

Acts of forcing drugs to others is a crime as previously said in this topic, if the Chinese government is really committing such crimes, they should also know that they are destroying the very community and society they are living in. Any immoral government would just lead to an even more immoral nation that can not be sustained and maintained, so it can only destroy itself, as the result of the agony that, they bring to themselves.
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