I am having a dilema at the moment and I'd like some opinions...
As my wife and I can not have children we dicided a few years ago to "adopt" a dog. This dog is like a daughter to me, she goes everywhere we do (except work) and lives life like a human as much as it is possible, she even sleeps in our bed. She also has an inoperable tumor which will kill her in the next few months. My wife and I have decided to put her to sleep, not because it the done thing and it is "humane", but because I could not bare to see her in pain, knowing there is nothing I can do to help her, and her death would be short, not drawn out and painful for her. I think I would want the same even if she was human.
My dilema is, is this humane or murder? Am I breaking Universal law by allowing my best friend, my daughter to be murdered? If she was human Australian Law would forbid me from ending her life prematurly, Laws would rather see a human in pain, not remeber who or where they are, etc... just to prolong a life. But an animal... even if they are concidered a child, friend, etc... Yeah, no worries mate...
My gut tells me that she is better off getting a needle and go where she must to continue her "journey". I know TP says dogs where brought here as food, as were many other animals. But, if we have a "connection" with these animals the same as another human, does it change the rules? Or does Universal Law only occur with Humans?
Humane or Murder?
Moderator: Moderators
Humane or Murder?
They have eyes, but they do not see - ears, but they do not hear...
Dear Leo,
I'm sorry you're going through what you mentioned in your post. I can feel the dilemma and I will gladly share my own opinion, hoping it may be useful for you too (as it's being for me to think about it).
There's a whole difference between human beings and all other animals no matter how much attached we are to each of them. Humans are aware of being aware, have 9 bodies and a higher role to play in the universe (not mentioning responsibility), independently of their present circumstances. All other animals (as it's said in the Thiaoouba Truth interviews, if I recall correctly), on the other side, have 3 bodies and don't have the level of perception and awareness a human has.
From what I said above it seems to me the same rules just cannot be equally applied to humans and other animals. What I haven't said so far is that everything has its place in the universe, even a single rock or the millions of microscopic beings we share our earthly existence with.
I know that your dilemma carries a great emotional burden and it's not easy to get rid of it as it clouds our judgment, but let me ask you: what would you do if you weren't attached to your dog?
I had a similar situation when I was younger. I had a beautiful and big dog whom I adored but which was of a pure wolf lineage (the type of dog used by the police special forces). One day there was an accident that happened while my mother was treating one of his wounds and instinctively the dog almost bit my brother in the face... of course my parents immediately decided to get rid of the dog and thus (I learned this later of course) it was donated to the police force and taken away from us (must be a high ranking officer by now
). This was a serious blow for me but I think the decision was right.
So, in your case, what can happen if nothing is done? I believe there's a considerable probability that this tumor will start affecting her in a way that she may become tremendously dangerous, for as much impossible as this may seem to you.
It seems to me that what you are considering is the result of a careful and conscious thinking and a tribute of love towards your dog. If you have doubts regarding what to do, what viable alternatives do you devise? Ask for superior guidance even if you never did it before or you're not sure how to do it. And then expect an answer to come very shortly, and this answer can be in just about any form you can think of (a line or passage you read, a conversation you hear, a thought that "pops-up", a dream... anything).
What you mentioned in your post can it be a violation of the natural law? It seems to me that many of our actions are a direct violation of several natural laws (in greater or lesser orders of magnitude) and thus what we get back are the corresponding energies but I wouldn't worry much about natural law for 2 main reasons:
I'm sorry you're going through what you mentioned in your post. I can feel the dilemma and I will gladly share my own opinion, hoping it may be useful for you too (as it's being for me to think about it).
There's a whole difference between human beings and all other animals no matter how much attached we are to each of them. Humans are aware of being aware, have 9 bodies and a higher role to play in the universe (not mentioning responsibility), independently of their present circumstances. All other animals (as it's said in the Thiaoouba Truth interviews, if I recall correctly), on the other side, have 3 bodies and don't have the level of perception and awareness a human has.
From what I said above it seems to me the same rules just cannot be equally applied to humans and other animals. What I haven't said so far is that everything has its place in the universe, even a single rock or the millions of microscopic beings we share our earthly existence with.
I know that your dilemma carries a great emotional burden and it's not easy to get rid of it as it clouds our judgment, but let me ask you: what would you do if you weren't attached to your dog?
I had a similar situation when I was younger. I had a beautiful and big dog whom I adored but which was of a pure wolf lineage (the type of dog used by the police special forces). One day there was an accident that happened while my mother was treating one of his wounds and instinctively the dog almost bit my brother in the face... of course my parents immediately decided to get rid of the dog and thus (I learned this later of course) it was donated to the police force and taken away from us (must be a high ranking officer by now
). This was a serious blow for me but I think the decision was right.So, in your case, what can happen if nothing is done? I believe there's a considerable probability that this tumor will start affecting her in a way that she may become tremendously dangerous, for as much impossible as this may seem to you.
It seems to me that what you are considering is the result of a careful and conscious thinking and a tribute of love towards your dog. If you have doubts regarding what to do, what viable alternatives do you devise? Ask for superior guidance even if you never did it before or you're not sure how to do it. And then expect an answer to come very shortly, and this answer can be in just about any form you can think of (a line or passage you read, a conversation you hear, a thought that "pops-up", a dream... anything).
What you mentioned in your post can it be a violation of the natural law? It seems to me that many of our actions are a direct violation of several natural laws (in greater or lesser orders of magnitude) and thus what we get back are the corresponding energies but I wouldn't worry much about natural law for 2 main reasons:
- 1) because we really don't know that much about natural laws and
2) because the greatest indicators or gauges we have for our actions are our feelings and our consciousness.
“The best portion of a good man's life is his little nameless unremembered acts of kindness and love.”
~William Wordsworth
~William Wordsworth
Thank you ptex for you answers.
yes I realize that all animals including dogs have less bodies than humans. The main thing that concerns me is, if I had a human child or even a child that wasn't of my blood, and s/he had the same physical problem (ie an inoperative tumor) that couldn't be cured and it was going to be a long, slow and painful death, if the same options were available by Australian (or an other country for that matter) Law (ie. let suffer or euthanasia) would euthanasia, to allieviate the suffering, contravene our spiritual growth and development or aid it? Thao quite blatently said suicide is wrong but is quickening the inevitable (by which I mean near future) also classed as suicide/murder or is it humane??
yes I realize that all animals including dogs have less bodies than humans. The main thing that concerns me is, if I had a human child or even a child that wasn't of my blood, and s/he had the same physical problem (ie an inoperative tumor) that couldn't be cured and it was going to be a long, slow and painful death, if the same options were available by Australian (or an other country for that matter) Law (ie. let suffer or euthanasia) would euthanasia, to allieviate the suffering, contravene our spiritual growth and development or aid it? Thao quite blatently said suicide is wrong but is quickening the inevitable (by which I mean near future) also classed as suicide/murder or is it humane??
They have eyes, but they do not see - ears, but they do not hear...
That's an excellent point you raise and it's certainly one of the most difficult ones to answer.
I will try to make my point clear, as much as I possibly can. Regarding suicide or euthanasia I believe that whatever is done by human intervention is a direct violation of the universal law, which unbalances forces that will later be compensated by the law of karma, or in other words the law of cause and effect. But let's abandon this line of thinking for a while.
As human beings we're aware of our actions and the effect they have around us. In all cases there's a higher purpose for living a life in a physical body and this is a totally natural process that we do not dominate or even have the smallest clue. Considering this we all have a role to perform and since we don't know anything about our own role we actually know even less about anyone else's, so by admitting either suicide or euthanasia we can be preventing either our or someone else's fulfillment of life's mission or role as I called it earlier.
Now, by observing sites who report near death experiences of people who survived suicidal attempts (I remember this topic being discussed in this forum some time ago) and other sites which describe experiences of hypnotized people talking about events related with suicide we can have a pretty good grasp of what happens after a suicide and which invariably is the total repetition of the life experience and the lessons that should have been learned then, only that the circumstances are much harder than before and therefore the possibility of repeating suicide is high... by discussing this issue with several people I learned that there is a recurrent pattern that for a former-life suicidal when he or she finds the present life circumstances that lead to the previous-life suicide he or she immediately feels compelled to attempt it again... and thus if successful will not only lose a grandiose opportunity to repair all previous life's mistakes but will always come back with a tougher mission to learn something that could have been solved long ago.
Isn't euthanasia a more delicate or compassionate form of suicide?
Before coming to a human body each Astral Being agrees with the Higher Self as to the basics of what the life will be and actually previews it before entering the "river of oblivion" which follows immediate incarnation. Given that we're fully in charge of our lives (courtesy of our freedom of choice), we have therefore the power to break the agreement we made with our HS and thus we'll have to repair that later on somehow.
Does this seem to support the idea that euthanasia actually contravenes Universal Law? In my opinion definitely because it interferes with the purpose to have a physical body in the first place. There's a reason for everything that happens to a person and allowing euthanasia would mean that in our "human judgement" we devised a few exceptions.
As I said before, thinking about this isn't easy. As we know only too well, we're on a category 1 planet and a pretty primitive one in terms of spiritual development and understanding of life.
All this to say something very simple: in case someone had a child with a deformation or incapacity of some kind, this person would have to bring this child up the best of his/her capabilities because (although you may not see it this way) this astral being agreed at a higher level to have this child, the same happened with this person's partner and the very same happened when the child agreed to incarnate as their daughter/son. Please notice that at an Astral level the child is as immaculate as all other astral beings and I'm certain you can feel now how special and spiritually advanced that child must be to choose such an experience in that human body. What can happen by enduring an experience like this? Isn't it clear that tremendous spiritual expansion and understanding for those Astral beings directly involved would happen?
I will try to make my point clear, as much as I possibly can. Regarding suicide or euthanasia I believe that whatever is done by human intervention is a direct violation of the universal law, which unbalances forces that will later be compensated by the law of karma, or in other words the law of cause and effect. But let's abandon this line of thinking for a while.
As human beings we're aware of our actions and the effect they have around us. In all cases there's a higher purpose for living a life in a physical body and this is a totally natural process that we do not dominate or even have the smallest clue. Considering this we all have a role to perform and since we don't know anything about our own role we actually know even less about anyone else's, so by admitting either suicide or euthanasia we can be preventing either our or someone else's fulfillment of life's mission or role as I called it earlier.
Now, by observing sites who report near death experiences of people who survived suicidal attempts (I remember this topic being discussed in this forum some time ago) and other sites which describe experiences of hypnotized people talking about events related with suicide we can have a pretty good grasp of what happens after a suicide and which invariably is the total repetition of the life experience and the lessons that should have been learned then, only that the circumstances are much harder than before and therefore the possibility of repeating suicide is high... by discussing this issue with several people I learned that there is a recurrent pattern that for a former-life suicidal when he or she finds the present life circumstances that lead to the previous-life suicide he or she immediately feels compelled to attempt it again... and thus if successful will not only lose a grandiose opportunity to repair all previous life's mistakes but will always come back with a tougher mission to learn something that could have been solved long ago.
Isn't euthanasia a more delicate or compassionate form of suicide?
Before coming to a human body each Astral Being agrees with the Higher Self as to the basics of what the life will be and actually previews it before entering the "river of oblivion" which follows immediate incarnation. Given that we're fully in charge of our lives (courtesy of our freedom of choice), we have therefore the power to break the agreement we made with our HS and thus we'll have to repair that later on somehow.
Does this seem to support the idea that euthanasia actually contravenes Universal Law? In my opinion definitely because it interferes with the purpose to have a physical body in the first place. There's a reason for everything that happens to a person and allowing euthanasia would mean that in our "human judgement" we devised a few exceptions.
As I said before, thinking about this isn't easy. As we know only too well, we're on a category 1 planet and a pretty primitive one in terms of spiritual development and understanding of life.
All this to say something very simple: in case someone had a child with a deformation or incapacity of some kind, this person would have to bring this child up the best of his/her capabilities because (although you may not see it this way) this astral being agreed at a higher level to have this child, the same happened with this person's partner and the very same happened when the child agreed to incarnate as their daughter/son. Please notice that at an Astral level the child is as immaculate as all other astral beings and I'm certain you can feel now how special and spiritually advanced that child must be to choose such an experience in that human body. What can happen by enduring an experience like this? Isn't it clear that tremendous spiritual expansion and understanding for those Astral beings directly involved would happen?
“The best portion of a good man's life is his little nameless unremembered acts of kindness and love.”
~William Wordsworth
~William Wordsworth
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trumpet_is_cool
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:59 pm
- Location: Germany
To make it more difficult, imagine that you become really sick...Some doctors put you on machines that keep you alive - Without this machines you would die.ptex wrote: Isn't euthanasia a more delicate or compassionate form of suicide?
Before coming to a human body each Astral Being agrees with the Higher Self as to the basics of what the life will be and actually previews it before entering the "river of oblivion" which follows immediate incarnation. Given that we're fully in charge of our lives (courtesy of our freedom of choice), we have therefore the power to break the agreement we made with our HS and thus we'll have to repair that later on somehow.
Does this seem to support the idea that euthanasia actually contravenes Universal Law? In my opinion definitely because it interferes with the purpose to have a physical body in the first place. There's a reason for everything that happens to a person and allowing euthanasia would mean that in our "human judgement" we devised a few exceptions.
What is the right choice : Switch of the machines or do everything to keep you alive.
That is a difficult one as well...I think it is not natural to keep somebody alive who is dying...To make it more complicated...Is it right to use medicine at all to prolong a live ? In this civilisation death is something to fear, what if death is something beautiful and we hold all the peoples back from this experience and prolong their suffering on earth ?
Let me state clear that suicide (Jumping from a bridge etc...) is definately not a solution, we are here to learn ! But what`s to do if we gonna get really sick ?
Trumpet_is_cool, your question seems to be on the opposite side of the "scale" regarding suicide or euthanasia. We're not talking about taking someone's life but rather artificially prolonging a person's life.
Please notice, the person's life is not being prolonged to make the suffering longer, actually the criteria for prolonging a person's life is that somehow there's still a chance for the person to come to life again. You probably know that there are documented cases of people who were considered clinically dead that came back to life after a period of coma where they were only supported by articial means.
I believe the answer to your question touches too much the personal ethics and intuition of the doctor not to mention the specifics of the case itself.
Please notice, the person's life is not being prolonged to make the suffering longer, actually the criteria for prolonging a person's life is that somehow there's still a chance for the person to come to life again. You probably know that there are documented cases of people who were considered clinically dead that came back to life after a period of coma where they were only supported by articial means.
I believe the answer to your question touches too much the personal ethics and intuition of the doctor not to mention the specifics of the case itself.
“The best portion of a good man's life is his little nameless unremembered acts of kindness and love.”
~William Wordsworth
~William Wordsworth
Thank you all for your answers,
Just to let you know my dog/daughter was put to sleep this afternoon
Just to go back to the animal situation, I have read some texts some years ago stating that Siddhārtha Gautama (Buddha) had achieved enlightenment as stated in TP. Some say he was a vegetarian because he refused to eat the meat of a living animal, for it too was a spiritual being. But, it was furthur stated that it was incorrect, he was NOT a Vegetarian/Vegan, but only refused to eat the flesh of an animal that was killed for him to eat. He would eat meat as long as it was not killed for the purpose of him to eat. I was meditating on that the other day and it came to me that all animals and humans are spiritual beings (all be it in different forms and spiritual levels). All have some level of conciousness (again in varing levels), can love, hate and feel a variety of emotions, etc... And can also "have a say" in their next life, as stated in TP with regard humans. But I also was "told" this level of "have a say", depending on the individual soul, varies dramatically depending on numerous factors well beyond my current level of understanding. I got shown a scene of a mother asking a child at a banquet of fabulous foods and all he wanted was a piece of ham (to me that means the child was unaware of the lavish foods and taste that far outstripped simple ham but the child had no knowledge of this, the same situation as with animals choice of life). Again I was "shown"a scene of Buddha refusing to eat the meat of a freshly killed animal because it was a spiritual being.
Again this was "shown" to me while meditating/concentrating on the matter. I hope my long winded answer makes sence. If it does and Michel as stated blatently that what I just said is wrong than forgive me, I will have to re-evaluate.
Just to let you know my dog/daughter was put to sleep this afternoon
Just to go back to the animal situation, I have read some texts some years ago stating that Siddhārtha Gautama (Buddha) had achieved enlightenment as stated in TP. Some say he was a vegetarian because he refused to eat the meat of a living animal, for it too was a spiritual being. But, it was furthur stated that it was incorrect, he was NOT a Vegetarian/Vegan, but only refused to eat the flesh of an animal that was killed for him to eat. He would eat meat as long as it was not killed for the purpose of him to eat. I was meditating on that the other day and it came to me that all animals and humans are spiritual beings (all be it in different forms and spiritual levels). All have some level of conciousness (again in varing levels), can love, hate and feel a variety of emotions, etc... And can also "have a say" in their next life, as stated in TP with regard humans. But I also was "told" this level of "have a say", depending on the individual soul, varies dramatically depending on numerous factors well beyond my current level of understanding. I got shown a scene of a mother asking a child at a banquet of fabulous foods and all he wanted was a piece of ham (to me that means the child was unaware of the lavish foods and taste that far outstripped simple ham but the child had no knowledge of this, the same situation as with animals choice of life). Again I was "shown"a scene of Buddha refusing to eat the meat of a freshly killed animal because it was a spiritual being.
Again this was "shown" to me while meditating/concentrating on the matter. I hope my long winded answer makes sence. If it does and Michel as stated blatently that what I just said is wrong than forgive me, I will have to re-evaluate.
They have eyes, but they do not see - ears, but they do not hear...
Leo,
I send you my deepest sympathy for what happened and I congratulate you for the tremendously difficult test you've been through, the courage and wisdom you demonstrated.
From my current understanding of life everything you said makes perfect sense and I didn't find a single contradiction between what you referred as your personal experience and what's written in TP. But even if there was a contradicition, please don't dismiss it only because it's mentioned in a book - whatever it may be, even TP, for direct experience is what true knowledge is about, everything else is only belief. Your experience was very profound and relevant!
I don't understand much about the astral processes that comprise animals other than humans, actually I know very very little even about humans which probably are the most complex ones, but I believe that every living being, be it an ant, a flower or anything else, has got an astral being too probably with other capabilities but always with a purpose and a mission. In one of the Thiaoouba Truth interviews, Michel talks about plants and trees as being "great mind readers", meaning that they can read the mind of the people around them. Very interesting telepathic tests have demonstrated this without mistake. It's interesting to think about the consequences and possibilities opened by this discovery. I imagine that at large, these same capabilities (and others we simply don't know about) are shared by all living beings to a greater or smaller degree.
I send you my deepest sympathy for what happened and I congratulate you for the tremendously difficult test you've been through, the courage and wisdom you demonstrated.
From my current understanding of life everything you said makes perfect sense and I didn't find a single contradiction between what you referred as your personal experience and what's written in TP. But even if there was a contradicition, please don't dismiss it only because it's mentioned in a book - whatever it may be, even TP, for direct experience is what true knowledge is about, everything else is only belief. Your experience was very profound and relevant!
I don't understand much about the astral processes that comprise animals other than humans, actually I know very very little even about humans which probably are the most complex ones, but I believe that every living being, be it an ant, a flower or anything else, has got an astral being too probably with other capabilities but always with a purpose and a mission. In one of the Thiaoouba Truth interviews, Michel talks about plants and trees as being "great mind readers", meaning that they can read the mind of the people around them. Very interesting telepathic tests have demonstrated this without mistake. It's interesting to think about the consequences and possibilities opened by this discovery. I imagine that at large, these same capabilities (and others we simply don't know about) are shared by all living beings to a greater or smaller degree.
“The best portion of a good man's life is his little nameless unremembered acts of kindness and love.”
~William Wordsworth
~William Wordsworth
condolences leo for sure -
My [family] cat died almost two months ago and Ive sort of kept this to myself whereas other family members in the house have been outgoing about it - because I was sort of in charge of her and they were all at work. She had thyroid problems for months, and weve only really been feeding her 'regular' cat food, sometimes feeding her stuff not from a can....anyway - last few weeks of her life were tougher [she was on thyroid medication which had to be taken in her food for about two months]. Turns out my dad or my sister took her to the vet last october for the initial diagnosis, and they asked them back in next few weeks to see how it goes [followup] but unbeknownst to me they never went back, and said shes probably fine. Anyway I had lots of things going on in my life at that time. Anyway, skip forward to the day she died - it happened when I took her back to that vet, because the night before she wasnt moving at all and looked pretty unhappy.
She seemed unsymptomatic before that, that is, I was unable to notice anything different about her, until that night and the following day when I took her back to our regular vet [not holistic, and not chosen by me originally; but I made the choice to take her there b/c they have all her info]. She was supposed to take a certain dose, and after giving her that dose, my sis/mom/dad thought her to be way to groggy and cut the dose in half, and she seemed to take to it better. The vet still thought however it should be the full dose, and there was disagreement but no switching of the vet, just a 'status quo' attitude - and I sorta blame myself for not taking her somewhere else on that day nearly two months ago - yet I dont work and had no money by that point, and so couldnt persuade anyone. In retrospect I had a feeling she might be leaving us the morning I scheduled the visit. She died of a heart attack while being examined. They were gonna take a blood sample and give an X-ray: I heard her screams and boy it sounded bad. For a human, going to a doctor is, for the most part, something we understand almost as routine. But for a cat - its probably unnerving. I am sad that it happened that way - her heart was weak, and I tried to calm her down while we waited, and she seemed to.
That medication must've not been very good - but the vet told me later it doesnt always absorb into the food if the cat waits and doesnt eat it right away, or something like that. I also in retrospect suspect the idea of feeding canned meat every day for a cats life or dogs, might not be so good either. Personally, if I feel myself mature and responsible enough to own another pet in the future, and I think I am - I would want to treat my pet w/wholistic philosophy, but also, vets that dont seem as 'scary' to animals, if theres such a thing. I miss her she was our pal
my sister had a dream she was playing w/a dog and was happy, so I guess she is.
My [family] cat died almost two months ago and Ive sort of kept this to myself whereas other family members in the house have been outgoing about it - because I was sort of in charge of her and they were all at work. She had thyroid problems for months, and weve only really been feeding her 'regular' cat food, sometimes feeding her stuff not from a can....anyway - last few weeks of her life were tougher [she was on thyroid medication which had to be taken in her food for about two months]. Turns out my dad or my sister took her to the vet last october for the initial diagnosis, and they asked them back in next few weeks to see how it goes [followup] but unbeknownst to me they never went back, and said shes probably fine. Anyway I had lots of things going on in my life at that time. Anyway, skip forward to the day she died - it happened when I took her back to that vet, because the night before she wasnt moving at all and looked pretty unhappy.
She seemed unsymptomatic before that, that is, I was unable to notice anything different about her, until that night and the following day when I took her back to our regular vet [not holistic, and not chosen by me originally; but I made the choice to take her there b/c they have all her info]. She was supposed to take a certain dose, and after giving her that dose, my sis/mom/dad thought her to be way to groggy and cut the dose in half, and she seemed to take to it better. The vet still thought however it should be the full dose, and there was disagreement but no switching of the vet, just a 'status quo' attitude - and I sorta blame myself for not taking her somewhere else on that day nearly two months ago - yet I dont work and had no money by that point, and so couldnt persuade anyone. In retrospect I had a feeling she might be leaving us the morning I scheduled the visit. She died of a heart attack while being examined. They were gonna take a blood sample and give an X-ray: I heard her screams and boy it sounded bad. For a human, going to a doctor is, for the most part, something we understand almost as routine. But for a cat - its probably unnerving. I am sad that it happened that way - her heart was weak, and I tried to calm her down while we waited, and she seemed to.
That medication must've not been very good - but the vet told me later it doesnt always absorb into the food if the cat waits and doesnt eat it right away, or something like that. I also in retrospect suspect the idea of feeding canned meat every day for a cats life or dogs, might not be so good either. Personally, if I feel myself mature and responsible enough to own another pet in the future, and I think I am - I would want to treat my pet w/wholistic philosophy, but also, vets that dont seem as 'scary' to animals, if theres such a thing. I miss her she was our pal
my sister had a dream she was playing w/a dog and was happy, so I guess she is.
http://www.ordinarymind.com/koan_killing.html
Wow ive not thought on koans for a while.
And an interesting observation about the child. Thank you for sharing.
Wow ive not thought on koans for a while.
And an interesting observation about the child. Thank you for sharing.
It is a very interesting question indeed... Well, I'm going to talk about if it's against nature... What if your child was so defigurated to be unable to even express or move? Should you keep them alive too? It's like if the baby was born dead... that baby was uncorrectly made so it died right away... is that against nature? Well, the difference here is that it (not specifying, so i mean any human, for example) is alive and you are making the choice... Well, suffering is included in experimenting... Dying is in itself an experience. So that means that you shouldn't kill it, just because that astral body is experimenting death... It is cruel, but you have to let nature, so that means no intervention. For an animal that has 3 bodies... I'm not sure... Do they have to experience too? That is the question we must ask. If yes, then don't interrupt, since it is important for that animal to experience it. If not, then you have to experience yourself to see if you can or not.
Another thought occured to me. Does animal exist to make us experience the suffering of a lost living thing without it being a human? It is the paradox of making important things smaller, like a test before an exam...
Sorry if I have offended someone, i feel I had...
Another thought occured to me. Does animal exist to make us experience the suffering of a lost living thing without it being a human? It is the paradox of making important things smaller, like a test before an exam...
Sorry if I have offended someone, i feel I had...
Dear Leo please do accept my condolences,
I think it's ok to take the life of a living being in many cases under very specific circumstances, as in regard with animals, one of these circumstances I consider is when you are in danger, or you can predict that you will be in danger if you won't do otherwise.
We know how we feel when we are ill, when we feel pain, and when we are suffering. Animals feel the same things too, therefore very much like us, they become more sensitive to their sorroundings, and they may become agressive when they consider that for them "enough, is enough". A very ordinary gesture from your side that normally your beloved dog wouldn't even pay attention to, can make it attack you, if it would think it should do so to keep more pain and suffering at bay.
From my point of view killing to alleviate pain and suffering of another human being is outragious idiocy. If the pain will meet the critical point where the human being is not supposed to experience it, the body is designed in a way that the person would die naturally, and the design is perfect by all I can tell.
There are many ways to allievate a persons suffering, one of which is to create deep love and respect for the person. Making a soul contact, getting to know them, or just sharing moments with them can do miracles! and yes it works on animals too, unless you are 100% sure it won't have dangerous consequences for you because not every animal is always in the mood to feel and experience love.
What's bad about drugs which allievate pain is that they make 90% of the problems you experience to become easily ignorable for you, while it lifts off the responsibility to have to take real care and practice real healing from those who prescribe these medications. Most Drugs are designed to serve the monetary system only.
I think it's ok to take the life of a living being in many cases under very specific circumstances, as in regard with animals, one of these circumstances I consider is when you are in danger, or you can predict that you will be in danger if you won't do otherwise.
We know how we feel when we are ill, when we feel pain, and when we are suffering. Animals feel the same things too, therefore very much like us, they become more sensitive to their sorroundings, and they may become agressive when they consider that for them "enough, is enough". A very ordinary gesture from your side that normally your beloved dog wouldn't even pay attention to, can make it attack you, if it would think it should do so to keep more pain and suffering at bay.
From my point of view killing to alleviate pain and suffering of another human being is outragious idiocy. If the pain will meet the critical point where the human being is not supposed to experience it, the body is designed in a way that the person would die naturally, and the design is perfect by all I can tell.
There are many ways to allievate a persons suffering, one of which is to create deep love and respect for the person. Making a soul contact, getting to know them, or just sharing moments with them can do miracles! and yes it works on animals too, unless you are 100% sure it won't have dangerous consequences for you because not every animal is always in the mood to feel and experience love.
What's bad about drugs which allievate pain is that they make 90% of the problems you experience to become easily ignorable for you, while it lifts off the responsibility to have to take real care and practice real healing from those who prescribe these medications. Most Drugs are designed to serve the monetary system only.
something I literally just discovered - apparently in the US, canada and mexico - there has been rat poison in popular cat food brands:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 739AAj2iio
this is pretty recent and I dunno if anyones heard about it, but I wonder if it goes back further? how do so many cans get rat poison in them???!
I am suspicious of this.
I wonder what cats eat when theyre in the 'wild' - that is, away from human society - ive heard that many animals live healthier on their own than under human care, just a thought on what we should be really feeding cats instead. They are probably carnivorous, at least this is what I believe at the moment.
Sorry this is a bit off topic but it kind of relates to how killing to alleviate pain is difficult, in that rat poison kills - and all these globalised agribusinesses somehow this rat poison gets into all these brands - how to explain it??
Obviously w/meat, organic is more important and there are sellers of organic pet food. Petco sells them. If I were in charge of buying her cat food Id surely have bought the organic stuff. We gave her last toys and things she had to a family friend who still owns a cat, we still have a few things left - a talented artist even painted her, its very good we still have that.
[she died in mid-january].
The other day I saw her form [little gray sploch on the ground, sorta floating the same speed as if walking] for a few seconds. Really! She is definitely visiting us from beyond a little, here and there. My mother saw it too.
little diatribe there.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 739AAj2iio
this is pretty recent and I dunno if anyones heard about it, but I wonder if it goes back further? how do so many cans get rat poison in them???!
I am suspicious of this.I wonder what cats eat when theyre in the 'wild' - that is, away from human society - ive heard that many animals live healthier on their own than under human care, just a thought on what we should be really feeding cats instead. They are probably carnivorous, at least this is what I believe at the moment.
Sorry this is a bit off topic but it kind of relates to how killing to alleviate pain is difficult, in that rat poison kills - and all these globalised agribusinesses somehow this rat poison gets into all these brands - how to explain it??
Obviously w/meat, organic is more important and there are sellers of organic pet food. Petco sells them. If I were in charge of buying her cat food Id surely have bought the organic stuff. We gave her last toys and things she had to a family friend who still owns a cat, we still have a few things left - a talented artist even painted her, its very good we still have that.
[she died in mid-january].The other day I saw her form [little gray sploch on the ground, sorta floating the same speed as if walking] for a few seconds. Really! She is definitely visiting us from beyond a little, here and there. My mother saw it too.
little diatribe there.
addendum: the rodenticide was a chinese poison to prevent rats from eating the wheat - this wheat was put in as an ingredient into the catfood [meat, the wet food].
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 339AAabI2o
so thats how it got there. wonder if its in wheat that people eat? not to be scary, but if it aint organic and from your own country, who knows??? Yet the labels on the food dont say 'made in china or wherever, they say a company name in your country, i.e. iams, would list the plant name here in US. You'd probably have to write to them otherwise, to find out where the food is 'made'. what a hassle! Unfortunately its only when this kind of thing happens that we question whats going on....
same old story eh?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 339AAabI2o
so thats how it got there. wonder if its in wheat that people eat? not to be scary, but if it aint organic and from your own country, who knows??? Yet the labels on the food dont say 'made in china or wherever, they say a company name in your country, i.e. iams, would list the plant name here in US. You'd probably have to write to them otherwise, to find out where the food is 'made'. what a hassle! Unfortunately its only when this kind of thing happens that we question whats going on....
same old story eh?