Being in relationship with religious... when you were one.

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Being in relationship with religious... when you were one.

Postby Zio on Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:55 pm

As some of you know, I am "officially" a Christian. But having a need of knowledge and wisdom, I seek more and more deeply, having read a lot about Bernard Werber's controversial books, until I discovered TP and TFOC... I just finished TP today.

The problem is not me knowing that it's true, it's what will happen to me next? I have kept my projects unrevealed to anyone, even my own brothers. No one knows that I don't believe in christianity anymore. And I don't like them to learn it, neither I don't like telling them about TP.

My whole family is baptised, my whole family back in my origin's country are christians. I live in a christian world.

I have fellowship every Friday, and worse of all, I was almost elected President of my fellowship. They require us to be baptised to be president, except the Junior Fellowship, the one I'm in. But I'm still Vice-President/treasurer. I have to do the "offering prayer", and thanks to Lobsang Rampa, I know the power of prayers... but "christian" prayer is not the same in many points.

What can I do without revealing that I "believe" in something else than Christianity? Should I get baptised?... of course not, now that I know the real message of Christ. But if I don't, my family will notice it...

If I don't what about when I'm getting married, and have kids (even thought I think we will die before that)? Christianity prefer us to married only christians, because "they" might influence our beliefs...

How much chance do I have to encounter a woman, especially here in Quebec, Canada, who knows about Thiaoouba and who was christian (not much importance here) before (especially when you're chinese, born spanish and have grow in Canada)?

What about Grace? Since Christ didn't died for our sins (or am I wrong here?), then do we really have to live many lives to repair our Karma as some religions say? TP talk about Christianity, but what about the other religions?

Sorry if I the answer is somewhere else in the forum, I don't really have time to read all topics, and this concern only myself.

I have an amazing open-mindeness, or else I wouldn't even have read TP. You can spit at my face, and I won't be angry. You can criticize me, I won't cry. But as you must know, we are here to build ourselves spiritually, and I don't think there's immatures here... I hope.

Lastly, I have pity for my fellow friends in Church, who don't know anything and proclaming things that I know it's not true now. I feel seperated from them, like if a hindu came to our Church. When everyone sings, I have not the heart for it.

When there's something that's not true, I try to tell them without them noticing it doesn't come from their beliefs... they will take it as modern science when I talk about the secrets of color, or the cold magnetic force of the planet...
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Postby Aisin on Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:43 am

Zio, this is belated, nevertheless, welcome to the forum.

I can picture the dilemma you're in. I don't live in a christian world like you, but some people close to me are staunch christians. It's a big challenge to try to inspire them to seek the truth without challenging / shaking their beliefs. I don't mind challenging their beliefs, it's just that they don't even allow me to try.

That aside, I must applaud you for achieving this awareness at this age. There is no quick solution to your situation. Instead of seeing it as a restriction, I see it as a blessing for you. TP is not the final answer. Keep searching, there's much depth to be explored.

What I think can help you feel more at ease in such a situation is that, instead of viewing yourself as opposing them, and feeling stuck, you may eventually filter away the beliefs in christianity, and discover the gem in human nature, that is the capacity to love.

I know this is very hard to achieve, it may take a year or more. These christians have given you trust, respect and admiration (evident in their electing you as a group leader). Your christian family has given you care, understanding, approval and emotional support. Be grateful to all of them every moment, then you'll be a happy man.

It's human nature that as soon as we discover something precious, we want to share it with our family and friends. It's a disappointment when they're not ready to accept it yet. We need a lot of patience.

Regarding meeting someone who understands what you think, no hurry about that. Leave it to fate. Who knows, you might go to another city or another country to attend university. Good luck!
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Re: Being in relationship with religious... when you were on

Postby bomohwkl on Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:08 am

Zio wrote:
The problem is not me knowing that it's true, it's what will happen to me next? I have kept my projects unrevealed to anyone, even my own brothers. No one knows that I don't believe in christianity anymore. And I don't like them to learn it, neither I don't like telling them about TP.



I know how to feel. At the end I think, almost every good people feel uncomfortable to live in a lie. I would advise you to be prepared to tell the truth of you sometimes in the future even though the truth could be hurtful.

TP and FOC expand the idea of spirituality. Once the ideas are expanded, the old restrictive ideas are discarded. There might books better than TP and FOC, whose know? But I keep my eyes open.

If I don't what about when I'm getting married, and have kids (even thought I think we will die before that)? Christianity prefer us to married only christians, because "they" might influence our beliefs...


That's why I like the idea of evolving 'beliefs' where your beliefs are examined, challenged, expanded and tested. At the end, such 'beliefs' would constitute closer to the truth or the truth. I like to interact with people who can expand my perceptions and understanding.
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Postby Lena on Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:12 am

How much chance do I have to encounter a woman, especially here in Quebec, Canada, who knows about Thiaoouba and who was christian (not much importance here) before (especially when you're chinese, born spanish and have grow in Canada)?


if you're worried about meeting someone who is likeminded to you, I think it would be wise not to limit that someone to a person who's necessarily read TP. the book just doesn't translate to some people, no matter how intelligent they may be; it's not for everyone. I know some people who understand the essential message that's explained in TP without ever reading the book. that's what matters most, imo.
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Re: Being in relationship with religious... when you were on

Postby Zio on Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:41 pm

I shouldn't have talked about the other useless stuff ^^ it's just to put you in context.

Anyway... the important fact here is:

Zio wrote:Should I get baptised?... of course not, now that I know the real message of Christ. But if I don't, my family will notice it...


That can't be evaded. They will notice it. Sooner or later. Should I play along with them, saying that I believe but still don't? (I don't like lying, but in this case, it's special)... or should I publicly say it? Or, there is another option: Say that I believe and still try to talk it out? But... that comes back to my first question.
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Postby PyroKinetic on Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:13 am

Well all u gotta say man is , im waiting for god to come to me and waiting for him to touch my heart so i can be baptised, just say ur not ready yet, UNTIL ur 18, then just say i dont believe in it.
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Postby Zio on Sun Nov 26, 2006 9:05 pm

Ya... UNTIL I'm 18... the first argument you gave me doesn't work, since I know how to reply to it. It only depends on if you are ready... and you just can't say that you're not ready year by year, or else it's like not "believing".
Before finding TP, I could of been a minister (pastor or whatever) O_o, because I thought I had lots of knowledge in theology. I am kinda "reputated" for my intellect ^^ I have to face a lot if I just say "no".
But what is most important is the impression I'll give to them. It's like if the impossible became possible O_o. I can imagine the confusion, the sorrow, the blah blah. I don't wanna hurt them, and I strictly don't want my family to know...
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Postby PyroKinetic on Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:13 am

WOW u must have a nice family since u dont want to hurt them :lol: Once im 18 im gonna scream at them that i dont believe in all that ****ing *** they told me, and say that i denounce there stupid flipping faith.
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Postby Robanan on Wed Dec 20, 2006 5:08 am

I don't understand what's wrong about being baptised... but anyway, without hurting anyone and to stand on the edge of the blade without falling on the either side you can always say I believe God, the Lord, the mighty creator of the universe is in my hearth, for example... study and promote all that you have in common with them. You know that if you were to point out all the differences, ignorances and misunderstandings you would alienate them to yourself, so I don't think there's anything wrong about taking the other way around to underline the truth you and your family have in common.

PyroKinetic wrote:Once im 18 im gonna scream at them that i dont believe in all that ****ing *** they told me, and say that i denounce there stupid flipping faith.

:shock: and?

What do you expect to be the outcome of that? My experience says it won't change anything one single bit and you'll be much disappointed to see that it would get even worse than it was before.
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Postby ptex on Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:56 am

I am sorry I didn't post earlier in this topic (there are so many sometimes I don't know where to turn to ;) )

First I want to congratulate Zio for bringing this EXCELLENT topic to discussion!

I am a former Roman Catholic, having passed in this life of mine through an endless internal "self" discussion of why was I of this or that religion or what makes this or that religion better than any other... but I always kept in mind events like inquisition, crusaders, the discovery of the new world... all done in the interest of "converting the pagans and the unfaithful" ones and expanding "the faith". Portugal historically played a major role in all of these unfortunately although in a much kinder manner than most colonial potencies!

Now, I am not only baptized but I have at least 3 or 4 other sacred sacraments the religion grants their "devote" followers... some of them are quite an "honor" to have and are considered to be "good". But why good? And what are these sacraments really about?

Again I will give my personal view: I think they exist only to perpetuate the religion, the system and to keep people more and more attached and dependent of it!

Nevertheless we have to understand that we live in a world controlled by people with strong connections with instated official religions. Therefore coming forward claiming we don't believe anymore, that somehow we know better now,... or something of the sort may not be the wisest thing to do. Actually, deeply buried underneath the appearances, there's something that unites all religions, all creeds, ultimately all human kind: God the creator, the forces of creation - the universal law. So, there's no need to shout about our new ideas or methods... we're all still searching and no truth can be considered universal because things change in a split second, according to our consciousness.

I have a close person who decided to become a Muslim all of the sudden. Do you think my advice was "hey forget about becoming a Muslim for this or that reason"? I actually told the person: I'm happy that you to have made this decision, but open your eyes to new things and don't get trapped anywhere: follow your heart! I know this person has just sparked for spirituality in his / her own way and for the first time is venturing in something new, so I'm really happy for it. Somehow we have break free from our shell and learn something more... otherwise we seriously risk going where we are heading to :lol:

I certainly would like more and more people to learn about TP and the magnificence of the message, but I understand not all will follow the same path... actually our paths, according to TP and confirmed by many wise people through the ages, is strictly an individual one as there are no 2 people alike.

Just some food for thought ;)
The best portion of a good man's life is his little nameless unremembered acts of kindness and love.
~William Wordsworth
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Postby Zio on Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:47 pm

@_@ That's why I don't want my friends and family to know XP. But the problem is I don't want to do the contrary to what I say I would (hyprocrisy), but in this case, and as Ptex said, it is just better to do go along.

Thanks, I just wanted someone experienced in this matter to confirm what I needed (or wtv) to do.
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Postby Kitty on Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:41 am

Who cares what other people think. Don't let them bother you that much. I was born Christian and made the choice to give up religion at five. My family and their friends were deeply religious at the time (and still are) but they didn't care about my choice because we didn't fight. I'd go to church with them when they wanted me to, I'd pray with them, etc. I didn't consider myself part of their religion, but I respected their strong faith even though I personally thought it was misplaced.

Every person has a right to believe in whatever they want or not to. Just don't let them tell you that YOU are wrong and don't tell them that THEY are wrong.

You can either tell them you don't want to get baptised because you're not ready for it or tell them that you've lost your faith. If you're under 18 or living with your parents just go through with it and pretend to play their game until you move out. :wink:

If you don't want to marry another Christian, then don't. There are lots of people out there who haven't read TP. Reading a book doesn't make you more spiritually advanced. Going to church doesn't make you a real Christian. A priest can be a sinner and a prisoner can be saint-like.

Lastly, I have pity for my fellow friends in Church, who don't know anything and proclaming things that I know it's not true now.
I try not to look down on people who are practicing Christians as inferior or stupid even though I know they are greatly mis-informed. Don't feel sorry for them since they are using their freedom of choice to practice their religion. Some of them are actually good people despite the fact that their religion isn't perfect. I know this because I used to go to a Catholic high school. There are good and bad Christians.

I doubt telling them about TP is a good idea. A person can't run if they haven't learned to walk. They won't understand it and it will offend them because it questions their faith.

What about Grace? Since Christ didn't died for our sins (or am I wrong here?), then do we really have to live many lives to repair our Karma as some religions say?
TP and the Bible are 2 different things.

The Bible states that Christ died for our sins and salvation.
TP states that Christ died to prove there was an afterlife.

Karma is just something that influences reincarnation and life.
Ex: The more good you do, the faster you'll move up the 9 categories.
The more bad things you do, the faster you'll move down the 9 categories.
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Postby Zio on Sun Apr 22, 2007 11:27 pm

This is a pretty old topic, I have changed since last time :)

It's just that I have responsabilities (being Vice-president/treasurer of a fellowship) and the change will be radical. You know, they trust me, and if I say I don't believe anymore, I will surprise them. I just don't know how to explain my "lost of faith". Right now I'm doing it slowly.

Sorry, I need to go now, my brothers are watching :)
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Postby Essene on Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:47 am

That's good man. Right at the moment I'm finding it easier to move slowly regarding my family and friends, especially my friends. I feel that if I try to move things to quickly and all of a sudden one day I'm walking around with my friends wearing my chakra shirt and eating like a vegetarian, refusing alcohol and even clubs (loud noise) it will be too much for them to handle.

The only person in my family who is hard to change or even to get thinking is my dad who seems to be willfully ignorant of the world. He sees starving kids in africa and attributes that to there being no God because if there was God why would he let it happen. As you can see he isn't big on responsibility and many of the misfortunes which have happened to him (although none are all that big in my opinion) were all the "worlds" fault rather than his own.

His mindset is that he knows all he needs to own and what he doesn't know doesn't matter. Sadly this is quite common in our materialistic society which is so dependant on technology with only a small percentage of people who know actually how it works. Most people just want to think about the next car there going to buy or the next house etc etc.

He kind of reminds me of the people which the bible describes. The living dead. Jesus wasn't talking about zombies walking around but about people who have stopped living consciously and are dead inside. Anyway I'm getting off topic.

I can see how it would be hard being an important member of a group in a religion in which you don't believe in anymore. I think when you tell them they will be worried that your being corrupted or dabling in some cult or something and because they love you try to save you from "hell". Know that the more understanding you obtain the less people you seem to be able to relate to, atleast in some aspects. Also know that any change in the world has not been done by the "masses" but by individuals who have insisted on their ideas. Most if not all inventors of modern day technology were persecuted ruthlessly by their colleagues and branded crackpots but in the end we are benefiting from their ideas. The same situation exists today.

Note that Jesus was someone who came in with new ideas and we simply nailed him to the cross, only after did the "masses" benefit from his teachings but even then only for awhile until they a good deal of information was distorted.

My point is that something as controversial as the ideas represented in the TP cannot be expected to be welcomed with open arms by everybody and we can expect some deal of resistance from those around us.

I wish you luck, I personally would make my position clear through a slow process depending on how resistant people around me may be.

Also believe me when I say TP is not the end of our knowledge and beliefs but a big step in refining what we know and believe so that it is as close to the truth as possible. The search for truth is the search of God and we should never halt for too long on the way.
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them.
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Re: Being in relationship with religious... when you were one.

Postby Zio on Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:40 pm

... wow.

Exactly 2 years and 3 days after my first post here... can't believe my writing was that bad :P I think it still is. Anyway, that's beside the point.

...Ya, I've finally told them. It took me a really long while to gather all the conditions to tell my parents. I still think my mom don't get it because she thinks I still need to go to Church to talk about my "faith". I've been detaching one by one the links I have during the past 2 years. Thankfully, when I detached the last link, they didn't refuse my choice but things got a little complicated (explained below). Now only my brothers need to know. I think that will be one of the last obstacle I'll face.

The answer I immediately got from my dad (first one to be told) was "why". Heh, you could have imagined my situation here :) and they needed to know which "religion" I fitted in most. I told them none of them, but they needed a reason, and I couldn't tell them you-know-what. Well, this will be hopefully be cleared by next week.

Now that I've reread my first post... I just can't stand laughing :rofl: Well, that's all I can say for now, as things are still fresh.
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