Loud Noise

Discussion on preserving Nature: preventing the pollution, destruction and disbalancing of the finely-tuned natural ecosystems on our planet.

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Psi
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Who cares? (apart from us)

Post: # 7613Post Psi »

It’s a sad state of affairs that the general public does not know about the harmful effects of loud noise on the astral body. But, let’s face it, if they did, the majority of people wouldn’t care less.

Everyone knows about the harmful effects of smoking. In Australia, the authorities started putting shocking statements on packs, like ‘smoking kills’ and’causes cancer and heart disease’, and now they’ve progressed to shocking photos of smokers without any teeth or limbs. You’d think that would be enough to stop people smoking (or at least drive them to drink!). My point is that smoking is nowhere near as harmful as loud noise – in the greater scheme of things (meaning smoking won’t affect your electrons and, thus, impede your spiritual growth in future lives; it will ‘only’ shorten your time in this life).

And yet, if authorities were to post notices outside nightclubs about the harmful effects of loud noise on your astral body – do you really think most people would care? I think the general response would be a shrug of the shoulders followed by “Hey, man, I’m just trying to enjoy myself in this life. Let me deal with my next life in my next life.” That is, of course, assuming they knew about the astral body and reincarnation.

No, I’m sorry to say, I don’t think it makes any difference whether people know about loud noise and astral interference. First things first: Get them to use their minds, then they may start treasuring what they’ve got.

But wait, there is a happy ending to all of this.

Earplugs.
Leventis wrote:Ear muffings don't do anything. I probably read this at thefreedomofchoice.com forum. Not sure. It said though that it doesn't matter if you don't hear the sound it is the fact that you get exposed to that harms you. So even if you go got to a disco and you can't hear anything your body still gets messed up.
Yes, you did read this on Tom’s site.

But Michel disagrees.

Earplugs or muffs can make all the difference. Have a read of this:
http://www.goldenplanetforum.com/viewto ... 5&start=15
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
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shezmear
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Post: # 7615Post shezmear »

I find this paticulary interesting, reason being I spent my youth standing next to guitar amps played at least 5 times too loud, or being in the room with bands, and I must confess I do wonder wether next life I will have major issue`s,not to meation takeing drugs the worst kind (LSD/ACID), in fact all the stuff they tell you not to do in TP I did...:(,It was actually around the time I found TP that I really stoped doing all that stuff.

Still I have my doubts about wether sticking plugs in your ears will affect the damage of the noise, in this case intellegent night club owners could get the bouncers to give you free ears plugs at the disco at the door...:)..or just turn it down.

Reason being does`nt the shear viberation of the noise affect the astral body as a whole as a pose to the viberation receaved through the ear?

In this case, walkmans, diskmans,Ipods would be a serious health consern, as there sound is given via the ear plug, which is actually played to loud and can cause ear damage according to a report I saw on TV.

I just wonder wether the ear plug sound issue is Michels interpretation of the thiaoouba info, reason if he is right all well and good , but if putting ear plugs does not stop the damage caused by noise then it would be not such a good thing.
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Post: # 7616Post Psi »

It's best to read the other post I made regarding vibration - keeping in mind that it's not my opinion; I am merely the messenger, passing on what Michel shared in a lecture some years ago.

When discussing ear plugs, I'm not talking about those attached to an iPod which deliver sound, but plugs or ear muffs that deaden / lessen sound. Obviously, it's best to play your iPod at a 'sensible' level which means you can hear outside sound - that would be the best thing to do especialkly if you're walking around (several people have been killed for not hearing an approaching car). On that point, I believe Apple in Europe actually changed the software so that the maximum volume was reduced, whereas it's much higher in the US and elsewhere. Pity.

I think the simple answer is to avoid drugs and loud noise but, if the damage has already been done, meditation can help 'reconnect' you to your Higher Self. Again, it's all explained in the other post.
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Post: # 7617Post shezmear »

yes I read the other post, I geuss I am just trying to see if it is really that simple, I have a vested interest in the out come, that being I would like to be able to be exposed to a reasonable mount of noise with out damageing my astral body, I geuss I could test it, that is put in ear plugs and go out to a night club, I find blue tac to be a very good ear plug.

Also when you get exposed to loud noise like at a rock consert you come away and you can`t think, it`s like there is fuzz in your mind, and if you were ear plugs you don`t actually feel the same way, so maybe there is something to it, I rememebr I had to do some roady work for a friend of mine at concert in brisband, the bands were really bad and really loud,it was so loud you chest bone would viberate to the sound of the music, I had in ear plugs and did my best all night to keep away from the sound, but I remember wondering at the time, even though I had ear plugs my astral body was still exposed to the noise.

and yes getting quite enough in meditation to connect with your own HS works wonders for a shell shocked mind.
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shezmear
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Post: # 7619Post shezmear »

O.k I read it again, " The sounds that reach your ears are clearly very important"

and also

Not so, according to what Michel said in one of his final series of lectures in Melbourne in the late 1990s. He supported that claim by reminding people of his experience on Thiaoouba – how Thao gave him a mask to wear which filtered much of the radiant light of that planet. Light, as we know, is also a vibration – so, applying the same principle as sound, you would think that their ‘loud’ light would have penetrated / affected his astral body just as we think loud noise would. But, according to Michel, it did not.


I will give it some more thought...
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Post: # 7620Post survivor »

Headache pills will treat the system but not the cause. It can also mask the damage.

Earplugs will treat the system but not the cause. It can also mask the damage. Let us not be misled.
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ptex
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Re: Who cares? (apart from us)

Post: # 7623Post ptex »

Psi wrote:But Michel disagrees.

Earplugs or muffs can make all the difference. Have a read of this:
http://www.goldenplanetforum.com/viewto ... 5&start=15
I confess I'm quite puzzled with this! From one side I feel tempted by sheer logic to dismiss Michel's claim (as Survivor commented).

Trying to reason in favor of Michel, I can think that, since the ears are the organ which allow the Astral body to perceive sound vibration, if we protect the ear and the auditive system, it can actually happen that we protect the Astral body from excessive noise. It could be pretty much like sun glasses for the eyes. But I fear that, picking the case of sun glasses (and again as Survivor mentions) using sun glasses we protect the eyes but not the body... actually it's curious to notice that the body can actually be harmed by the use of sun glasses... let me explain: the eyes are a sensory organ of the human body, devoted to inform the brain of the light conditions in the environment. The brain with the information received from the eyes (and several other) through the stimulation of certain glands and organs, adjusts the body to optimally respond to the environment conditions, namely the light.

Now, what happens when the brain is informed that the light conditions don't exactly match what happens in the outer environment by using sun glasses? It simply gets fooled by this and thus we observe that people using sunglasses has a significant increased risk to suffer from solar overexposure related problems than someone who doesn't use them at all...

So, before jumping into conclusions, I feel tempted to further investigating this issue because I'm not willing to risk any blindfolded belief... Michel is the first to support this approach and actually this is at the very essence of TP!

I believe it's logical to assume that if excessive noise affects our Astral bodies it should affect in a very similar manner our Auric field. It so happens that I can measure the effects of noise in the human Auric field through the use of GDV. So we have to setup a series of tests to take a closer exam on this hypothesis: "the use of ear plugs can reduce or even cut the harm provoked by excessive noise in the Astral body of a human". I believe we can even measure up to what point on average, earplugs can reduce the harmful effect of excessive noise and what materials are really more suitable to achieve a satisfactory isolation factor.

I don't like the idea of making these tests because they'll be made on real people, potentially (certainly) unaware of the danger they face... but nevertheless it's needed to do something and people who go to rock concerts or disco clubs would be exposed to it anyway...

It the hypothesis is confirmed as Michel claims (we have to keep in mind that apparently Thao didn't mention this directly to him, it seems to me he "deduced" this from the Voki he used (and Thao's explanation for it) while in Thiaoouba) we can actually make something very positive in preventing further damage to some of our fellow planetary co-inhabitants. I'm certain that the earplug industry would certainly be interested in knowing this ;)

To make the thesis scientifically plausible we have to make a coherent and well planned series of tests, including several types of materials for earplugs, testing also the so called "placebo effect" (although I currently have no idea on how to do this). Since the objective is to isolate the sound vibrations, we can concentrate on the most efficient materials for this effect and also the design of the ear plugs. Well, actually there are a few factors we have to take into account and I suppose the discussion would get too technical to be easily understood for the moment.
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Re: Who cares? (apart from us)

Post: # 7624Post Psi »

The test sounds (no pun intended) like a great idea - science at work! Good luck with it.

I must say that I, too, had preconceived ideas about this whole earplug concept until I heard Michel's explanation. I am, of course, only relaying his words - not trying to mislead anyone.

As for it being his deduction rather than "direct words" from Thao - yes, it does come across like that, however none of us know for sure. We must all remember that there's many things Michel was told that he was not allowed to share or chose not to in the Book. This is further evidence of that.

Again, I think the simple solution - whether we establish earplugs work or not - is to avoid loud noise. To me, it's a little like wearing a fire-resistant suit and deliberately walking into a raging fire. The suit works but there's always the chance that the wearer will make a mistake in its application or use it beyond its use-by date, if there is such a thing. Either way, we shouldn't risk exposure if we don't have to. Just commonsense, I know, but that's far from common these days.
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Post: # 7628Post bomohwkl »

Placebo effect for sound? That's almost near impossible. You think you hear disco-like loud noise from the environment but you dont?
The best idea is to test it with different earplugs in the market in a controlled environment. Eg sitting in an acoustic room to listen to loud music. I am sure that some people would love to be paid to listen to their favourite music at high volume.
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Post: # 7631Post Robanan »

The voki as explained in TP were not meant to provide safety and protection against any kind of harm to Michel's ASTRAL BODY, they were meant to protect his eyes while allowing him to gradually attune both his eyes and his Astral body to the light on Thiaoouba.

Or you think that Michel would have been taken to Thiaoouba if there was any chance that his Astral Body might get hurt. I mean if the light on thiaoouba was dangerous to Michel's astral body, then surely no such voki would have helped him.
psi wrote:As for it being his deduction rather than "direct words" from Thao - yes, it does come across like that, however none of us know for sure. We must all remember that there's many things Michel was told that he was not allowed to share or chose not to in the Book. This is further evidence of that.
Don't push it like that, as much as your overall contribution to this forum has been enlightening, I must say that you, in your posts, never made a distinction about it being Michel's deduction(intrepretation) or being said from the people of Thiaoouba. In contrary to what you might expect Thiaoouba doesn't really mean anything to anyone, therefore saying, "do this and that because it's possible that Thiaoouba might have commanded to do these things too" is not correct.

Asking people not to go to Disco's because of the harm is also usless, the only way is to appeal to the public with sane and useful technology for entertainment. Everyone has the right to have as much fun as they whish to get. I-d-i-o-t-s, harm themselves and others, just to have fun! don't forget that Entertainment is a great industry and is big business. Most people provide for entertainment just for the sake of making a lot of MONEY!
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Post: # 7645Post Psi »

Thanks for the back-handed compliment regarding my posts, so far. I hope I won’t disappoint you now.
Robanan wrote:The voki as explained in TP were not meant to provide safety and protection against any kind of harm to Michel's ASTRAL BODY, they were meant to protect his eyes while allowing him to gradually attune both his eyes and his Astral body to the light on Thiaoouba.
If you took the time to read my other post on the subject (http://www.goldenplanetforum.com/viewto ... 5&start=15), you would have read direct quotes from TP regarding the voki.
‘The second point,’ Thao resumed, ‘is that you will be obliged to wear a mask, for a while at least, for the brightness and the colours will literally intoxicate you, just as if you had drunk alcohol. The colours are vibrations that act on certain points on your physiological body. On Earth, these points are so slightly stimulated, so little exercised, that here, consequences could be unfortunate.’
‘How do you feel in your new voki Michel? Do you find the light tolerable?’ … ‘Your new voki allows fifty per cent of the vibrations of colour on our planet to pass, whereas your former voki subdued all but twenty per cent.’
Emphasis is mine.

Either way you look at it, the voki reduces the intensity of the light to the eyes – just as earplugs reduce the intensity of sound to the ears. That was Michel’s analogy – his logical explanation for why the earplugs will block sound, just as the voki blocks light.
Robanan wrote:Or you think that Michel would have been taken to Thiaoouba if there was any chance that his Astral Body might get hurt. I mean if the light on thiaoouba was dangerous to Michel's astral body, then surely no such voki would have helped him.
I did not say anywhere that the light on Thiaoouba was potentially damaging to Michel’s astral body. That’s your conclusion. My point was to express Michel’s point, as stated earlier, that even though sound and light are vibrations, their intensity on the astral body can be effectively lessened by using these devices.

As I said, this is not my theory or my conclusion based on scientific results; in fact I struggled with the whole idea when I first heard it. All I'm doing is simply passing on Michel’s words – delivered in one of his last lectures in Melbourne.
Robanan wrote:
psi wrote:As for it being his deduction rather than "direct words" from Thao - yes, it does come across like that, however none of us know for sure. We must all remember that there's many things Michel was told that he was not allowed to share or chose not to in the Book. This is further evidence of that.
Robanan wrote:Don't push it like that, as much as your overall contribution to this forum has been enlightening, I must say that you, in your posts, never made a distinction about it being Michel's deduction(intrepretation) or being said from the people of Thiaoouba.
You’re right – I didn’t make a distinction as to whether this earplug notion is Michel’s or Thao’s. I simply don’t know. But, like everyone here, I am entitled to my opinion, and I was just offering it. It’s up to you, to everyone, what you choose to do with it.
Robanan wrote: In contrary to what you might expect Thiaoouba doesn't really mean anything to anyone …
Now you’ve lost me, Robanan. “Thiaoouba doesn't really mean anything to anyone”. If so, then why have this Forum? Why ‘waste’ your time reading the Book, discussing the Book? Why speak for everyone on this Forum (I don’t recall seeing a poll on that). Am I missing your point? I hope so.
Robanan wrote: … therefore saying, "do this and that because it's possible that Thiaoouba might have commanded to do these things too" is not correct.
My point is to share information and exchange ideas. I am not telling you to do anything. And, even if I did, I know you have the sense to make up your own mind. And, besides, you know as well as anyone, Thiaoouba doesn’t command or demand anything of you – only that you use your own free will and not restrict any other person’s free will.

If you think I am doing that by offering information and expressing my opinion, then what can I say? What can anyone say?..
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
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Post: # 7647Post Robanan »

:) Dear Psi,

I have been reading that topic and I have been reading all of your posts. I do read every single new post to this forum every day or two :wink:

I am also aware that you are just communicationg what you have heard from Michel, now I understand this point even better as you wrote:
Psi wrote:I didn’t make a distinction as to whether this earplug notion is Michel’s or Thao’s. I simply don’t know. But, like everyone here, I am entitled to my opinion, and I was just offering it. It’s up to you, to everyone, what you choose to do with it.
So, here we are left with nothing except researching the matter ourselves with the aim, to improve our current technology for safer and more reliable ways of entertainment. Those in the industry who do care for the quality of their services can be warned and inspired to go on and develop safe entertainment technology and that's as far as we can get on this regard.


Now regarding the voki... :computer:

As you have noted in the quotes from TP the vibrations of light on Thiaoouba do affect the eye because of their intensity and do act "on certain points on your physiological body". My best bet on trying to think rationally is to see if the vibrations of light on Thiaoouba can be considered logical equvalents to vibrations wich affect and damage the astral body; in order to see if a similar approach as to applying the voki concept (earplugs) can help someone prevent any damage made to the astral body.

I find these two types of vibrations to be different things, and what I'm doing is trying to see what I "can know" given all the infomation that I have at hand. Including the information given in this topic.

So my conclusion after hearing all the arguments presented is as follows:
  • 1- The earplug approach (voki concept) does not apply in this case, as a shield against sound vibrations which are many times too loud, since we are speaking of vibrations with different effects and preferences than the effect and preference of the light on Thiaoouba.

    2- The result of all of the deductions are the same, we have to improve our entertainment technology, in order to introduce safer and more enjoyable trends. I may be wrong in making the above conclusion (number 1); what then? everyone will be starting to go to disco's with earplugs? That's not an impressive progress in enjoying entertainment given it's stage of development on our planet, isn't it?

    3- The limit of the information we could get from Michel would be something like "The people of Thiaoouba approve earplugs, to be effective against the damage made by extremely loud sounds" (given what we have at Disco's etc.) will this resolution satisfy anyone's spiritual need for entertainment? with the same success you could sit at home put earplugs, turn on TV and watch how other people dance to something you don't even hear.

    4- The limit of information we could get from Tom Chalko would be something like "You should not expose yourself to extremely loud sounds at no risk and at no cost" now do you all see where I'm getting to? This also won't help the masses enjoy music, dances, etc. What the ...??!! It's part of what all people of earth have in common, putting music and dance together! considering that this is an elementary thing, it's just basic entertainment that has been practiced even before man set foot on earth; earplugs or not , people are being profitted upon on one way tickets to the crematorium for their astral bodies.
Psi wrote:“Thiaoouba doesn't really mean anything to anyone”. If so, then why have this Forum? Why ‘waste’ your time reading the Book, discussing the Book? Why speak for everyone on this Forum (I don’t recall seeing a poll on that). Am I missing your point? I hope so.
So, you took the red pill ^_^ Welcome to the goldenplanetforum 8)

As noted in the book there is no proof of the existence of Thiaoouba, or that the journey really took place... or should I have better said, the proof is always... not enough. On this forum we are a bunch of enthusiasts who from what I know are mostly intrested in researching what has been introduced in TP. Other than that there are many other types of people outside this forum who go to Discos and night clubs regularly to whom Thiaoouba doesn't mean anything whatsoever. If I'm misrepresenting this forum, do tell me.
My point is to share information and exchange ideas. I am not telling you to do anything. And, even if I did, I know you have the sense to make up your own mind. And, besides, you know as well as anyone, Thiaoouba doesn’t command or demand anything of you – only that you use your own free will and not restrict any other person’s free will.
My point is to share information and exchange ideas. I am not telling you to do anything. And, even if I did, I know you have the sense to make up your own mind. And, besides, you know as well as anyone, Thiaoouba doesn’t command or demand anything of you – only that you use your own free will and not restrict any other person’s free will.
As I said before we are reserching the TP case, personally I thoroughly try to aim at the quality of the information presented on this forum, therefore I try to check the sources of information the best I can, and here on this forum we do try to make distinctions between personal opinions (deductions and the like...) and direct information from Thiaoouba.

In this post I tried to show how pointless can be to make deductions out of deductions of deductions as you suggest in your words quoted below:
Psi wrote:however none of us know for sure. We must all remember that there's many things Michel was told that he was not allowed to share or chose not to in the Book. This is further evidence of that.
Considering the subject of this topic, it's quite possible that Michel was told to inform people about the wonders of earplugs. :lol:
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Post: # 7653Post ptex »

Here's a "small" addition to my previous post.

Before embarking on this research adventure I'll try to know if there's any work already done in this field with GDV technology.

Whatever the result of this research there's one thing clear: we have to establish and prove beyond doubt the dangers of excessively loud noise. This will bring generalized awareness to the problem and will hopefully result in a couple of concerned people taking proactive measures to prevent such damage to occur in the future at least in what concerns with them.

The ideal outcome would be to bring it to a level of discussion where authorities recognize the validity of arguments and results shown and to rule entertainment and related activities in a new and more conscious manner. I believe if the research is well conducted and acknowledged within Scientific means we could see European Community, the Commonwealth, or individual countries taking measures in this regard by ruling new laws.

On the other end, there are 2 main possibilities we have as a result of the successful conclusion of the research:
  • 1) Earplugs really work and we can see an increasing number of people using such "devices" for their own protection;
    2) Earplugs make none or little difference and we can still expect to bring this to public awareness because damage to the human being will have been clearly established.
bomohwkl wrote: Placebo effect for sound? That's almost near impossible. You think you hear disco-like loud noise from the environment but you don't?
The best idea is to test it with different earplugs in the market in a controlled environment. Eg sitting in an acoustic room to listen to loud music. I am sure that some people would love to be paid to listen to their favourite music at high volume.
Yes, I agree with you! Placebo effect doesn't make a lot of sense at first sight but ... we still have to think of a way to test it (but obviously not regarding the hearing of sound) if applicable.

Your suggestion seems to be very good!!!
I have yet to find a proper acoustic room and the proper motive to attract people to perform the tests. Any ideas? I thought of recording studios, they usually have good acoustic rooms. By lobbying with them, we could indirectly promote their cooperation in the project and in return they could offer promotional CDs to participants.

Anyway I want the tests to be completely safe from the testers point of view, meaning the limit of sound would never be reached... we could determine the effect of noise without reaching the 3 times higher the tolerance level for human beings. I refuse to make the tests otherwise as I'm not going to expose participants to this kind of danger! Any other ideas on how to achieve this?

Alternatively I thought of interviewing people going to rock concerts or discos and measuring their GDV reading before and after (but not during because of potential interference with equipment)... but it seems to me we have potentially too many variables we don't control, for instance many of them drink heavily during concerts or even take other substances not very proper that pose too high a risk for a competent research.
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Post: # 7706Post bomohwkl »

ptex wrote:Here's a "small" addition to my previous post.


Anyway I want the tests to be completely safe from the testers point of view, meaning the limit of sound would never be reached... we could determine the effect of noise without reaching the 3 times higher the tolerance level for human beings. I refuse to make the tests otherwise as I'm not going to expose participants to this kind of danger! Any other ideas on how to achieve this?
You can use rats if you want. :D But where are you going to find a suitable earplugs for these little creatures? Can your GDV accomodate a rat? Medical research using drugs have to be trailed using rats first. But if you feel that it is ethically incorrect to expose rats at disco-level music, you need to find some suitable substitute.
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Post: # 7707Post bomohwkl »

It seems that we are trying to test a hypothesis.

This is the FACT:
Eyes are the electromagnetic sensory for visible light. Thao gave Micheal a voki to subside the 'drunken' effect of the colour of light. With eyes closed, Micheal would not feel 'drunken' by the colour of Thiaoouba even without voki.The vibration received by the eyes singificantly affect the astral body.

This is the HYPOTHESIS:
The vibration received by the ears significantly astral body (loud noise). Analogously, wearing a earplug subside the effect just like voki.

My refute of the HYPOTHESIS:
1. With your eyes closed, wearing a chakra shirt will increase your auric uniformity and intensity. (of course you would faint down)
2. Your skin and your body can sense mechanical vibration. Sound is a mechanical vibration.
3.
Title: Effects of loud noise exposure on DNA integrity in rat adrenal gland
Author(s): Frenzilli G, Lenzi P, Scarcelli V, Fornai F, Pellegrini A, Soldani P, Paparelli A, Nigro M
Source: ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH PERSPECTIVES 112 (17): 1671-1672 DEC 2004
Document Type: Article
Language: English
Cited References: 26 Times Cited: 0
Abstract: Loud noise is generally considered an environmental stressor causing negative effects on acoustic, cardiovascular, nervous, and endocrine systems. In this study, we investigated the effects of noise exposure on DNA integrity in rat adrenal gland evaluated by the comet assay. The exposure to loud noise (100 dBA) for 12 hr caused a significant increase of DNA damage in the adrenal gland. Genetic alterations did not decrease 24 hr after the cessation of the stimulus. We hypothesize that an imbalance of redox cell status is responsible for the induction and persistence of noise-induced cellular damage
It looks like for me (gut feeling), the damage in (3) is more the result of mechanical damage. It could be psychological induced stress damaging the DNA or combination of both. Subject a plant with loud noise and see whether there is any DNA damage will tell us more about the danger of noise or use GDV to quantify. I think the results could be publishable in a scientific journal. No one has yet studied whether DNA damage is the result of psychological induced stress upon hearing (with ears) or mechanical induced damage.
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