Meditation Techniques

A place to discuss the higher self, chakras, meditation, spiritual healing, and other methods of healing.

Moderator: Moderators

Lena
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:12 am
Location: CT

Post: # 5773Post Lena »

Alisima wrote:If you don't like to sit in a chair or in an yogic posture with closed eyes. Go outside, into the park. Meditate their, with your eyes open. It doesn't actually matter. In fact, you can meditate while you are walking, while you are eating, while you are taking a poo.
so, do you think it's possible to be meditating on a regular basis without effort and not even noticing it? like if you're sitting in class, staring at the board but not looking or listening (or thinking), until the teacher calls your name and snaps you out of it? :roll: sometimes when I "space out" I start to feel weird sensations in my brow chakra, or I notice people's auras... but by the time that happens I usually snap out of it.
Frozn
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:58 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Post: # 5774Post Frozn »

Lena wrote:
Alisima wrote:If you don't like to sit in a chair or in an yogic posture with closed eyes. Go outside, into the park. Meditate their, with your eyes open. It doesn't actually matter. In fact, you can meditate while you are walking, while you are eating, while you are taking a poo.
so, do you think it's possible to be meditating on a regular basis without effort and not even noticing it? like if you're sitting in class, staring at the board but not looking or listening (or thinking), until the teacher calls your name and snaps you out of it? Rolling Eyes sometimes when I "space out" I start to feel weird sensations in my brow chakra, or I notice people's auras... but by the time that happens I usually snap out of it.
Vesko's first post in this topic about Swami Rama's interpretation of meditation is the most correct and complete definition of TRUE meditation I've ever seen. In fact, I read it yesterday and I have already broken an unhealthy meditation habit. I would get frustrated when I couldnt control my mind, and trying to steer my mind was the problem that prevented progress in that area.

Alisima is right though that you can meditate anywhere that your mind can get some comfort. In class and in the middle of responsibility is not one of those places, but funny he should say go to the park to meditate, because earlier this week I did just that for a couple hours in the sunlight. It was a beutiful day so the park was full of people, but the niceness of the environment and the warm sun outweighed all that. I'd highly recommend it.

Most people with spiritual talents meditate naturally, and what you are describing when you're in class is exactly that. However, meditating regularly, aside from all the other benefits, will help you alot with the mental control needed to not snap out of that receptive state you get to when zoning off in class. The same thing happens to me when i try to see an aura, I'll see it for a second, become aware of the color then BAM! back to normal. The better my meditation skill, the longer before my mind freaks out. Lena, I know you will know what I'm talking about there.

In this topic it concerns me that something so simple can go by so many names, have so many different techniques, and can get so confusing, espescially to beginners or would-be beginners. We all have different ways which work for us, but what helped me most was Swami Rama's example of how NOT to meditate. It is obvious it can be done many ways, perhaps we should start a topic discussing bad meditation practices.
Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. - Gospel of Thomas
User avatar
Aisin
Posts: 317
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:36 am
Location: Malaysia

Post: # 5776Post Aisin »

Frozn wrote:Most people with spiritual talents meditate naturally
Just like what Tom Chalko described about his son being able to see aura spontaneously when he was small, but lost the ability to when he grew older (probably due to lack of usage/practice); I think the same goes for spontaneous meditation, or achieving spontaneous meditative state. Maybe most people are born with such instinctive ability, but lost it later.

When I was small, I used to experience spontaneous meditation. I only recall coming out of it, the feeling of being suddenly aware that I am here, without knowing what had past, how long it had been, and how / why it started. And I gradually stopped doing it in my teenage years, perhaps the education system is to be partially blamed :), and partially due to myself not recognizing the benefits of doing it then. Well, most of my friends did not recognize it either, they would ask me after observing my meditative state, 'why are you like a stone?'.

What an irony, now that I've almost lost the natural ability, I'm learning techniques to achieve it consciously. :D But it's a good lesson learnt, and new experience attained.

Anyway, for me now, the best surrounding to achieve spontaneous meditative state is by the sea, at the beach facing the sea or in the middle of the sea. I have the impression I read somewhere that the frequency of the sea wave at rest helps to induce Alpha brainwave, but I can't find any supporting document now. Elaboration on Alpha brainwave can be found here or here.

Here's a poem to share:
Leisure

by William Henry Davies (1871-1940)

What is this life if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.

No time to stand beneath the boughs
And stare as long as sheep or cows.

No time to see, when woods we pass,
Where squirrels hide their nuts in grass.

No time to see, in broad daylight,
Streams full of stars like skies at night.

No time to turn at Beauty's glance,
And watch her feet, how they can dance.

No time to wait till her mouth can
Enrich that smile her eyes began.

A poor life this if, full of care,
We have no time to stand and stare.
Frozn
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:58 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Post: # 5777Post Frozn »

Thanks for the poem aisin. Not only does it speak on natural meditation, it reminds me that once you forget about the simple pleasures in life, you forget yourself as well. Who is finding himself that doesnt know he's lost? Food for thought, to say the least.
Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. - Gospel of Thomas
User avatar
Alisima
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post: # 5784Post Alisima »

Lena wrote:so, do you think it's possible to be meditating on a regular basis without effort and not even noticing it?
In the beginning there will be effort, but through practice it becomes stable. As far as 'not even noticing it', I hope not. What is the point of meditating when you don't notice it??
Lena wrote:like if you're sitting in class, staring at the board but not looking or listening (or thinking), until the teacher calls your name and snaps you out of it? :roll: sometimes when I "space out" I start to feel weird sensations in my brow chakra, or I notice people's auras... but by the time that happens I usually snap out of it.
Feeling sensations or seeing halo's is not the same as meditation. Although it can certainly be an side-effect of it, it is, however, in itself, not meditation. Nevertheless, I don't doubt that you in fact did go into 'some kind of meditation'. But, and here is the point, don't confuse the effect that you get from meditation with meditation itself.
Frozn wrote:Most people with spiritual talents meditate naturally
This is total baloney. As if less talented people don't meditate. Every child meditates. It is just a question of when it stops.
Don't read my signature.
Frozn
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:58 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Post: # 5790Post Frozn »

Frozn wrote:Most people with spiritual talents meditate naturally
Alisima wrote:This is total baloney. As if less talented people don't meditate. Every child meditates . It is just a question of when it stops.
That is neither what I said nor what I meant, Alisima. Just because I say most people with spiritual talents meditate naturally doesnt mean other people don't. You still havent pointed out how what I said was inaccurate. Oh wait, it wasn't. If it satisfies you to argue over nothing, then that sounds like a personal problem. Let's stay on topic.
Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. - Gospel of Thomas
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

Post: # 5990Post Zark »

Alisima wrote:
Frozn wrote:Most people with spiritual talents meditate naturally
This is total baloney. As if less talented people don't meditate. Every child meditates. It is just a question of when it stops.
That was a bit rude don't you think ?
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
User avatar
Alisima
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post: # 6027Post Alisima »

Zark wrote:
Alisima wrote:
Frozn wrote:Most people with spiritual talents meditate naturally
This is total baloney. As if less talented people don't meditate. Every child meditates. It is just a question of when it stops.
That was a bit rude don't you think ?
Frozn was talking about how somebody got into a 'trance' in a classroom. Frozn said, or that is what I read into it, that people higher on the spiritual ladder, or people that have more spiritual talents, more easily slip into meditative states. Well, that may all be true, and as far as I know, it is! But it, perphase unintentionally, brings about the idea of a hierachy, or at least a division between people with spiritual talents and people who don't. And that is baloney. Because really, we were born meditatively, we all are. Then there comes a process of education were the purity gets destroyed, a neccesary evil I guess. Ofcourse, some get more affected and some less. Then to say that people who were less affected have more spiritual talents is ofcourse a bit wrong. An analogy: say we both have 5000 dollars and we both get robbed. From you, however, the thiefs take 2000 dollars and from me they take only 1000 dollars. Then ofcourse one can say that I have more money then you, that I have more wealth than you, but in reality the thiefs just took less. It is another way of looking at it, but it completely annihilates any 'I am better' or 'I am worse' feeling that one may have and focuses not on that which is left behind but on all that was taken away. Ofcourse, I was being picky, and perhapse somewhat direct.
Don't read my signature.
Frozn
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:58 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Post: # 6033Post Frozn »

Thanks for clarifying that, Alisima. I can however speak for myself. Yes it is a theory of mine that people who have been less affected (or perhaps deprogramed is a better word) by the negative effects of our "civilization" meditate naturally. This lines up quite well with what you said and I agree that most children in fact do so, most without acknowledging what is the purpose of it. As far as I know, however, there are no children on this forum, so I didn't feel the need to refer to them. I am not one to compare who is 'better' or 'worse', not because the values dont exist (As you might say, Alisima), but because it is not important.
Alisima wrote:But it, perphase unintentionally, brings about the idea of a hierachy, or at least a division between people with spiritual talents and people who don't. And that is baloney.
I'm still having trouble finding this baloney. Spiritual talents (often confused with "gifts") are the result of practice and discipline. For example, some people are able to see auras, some are not. This does not infer that those who cannot are somehow inferior or a lower member of some heirarchal structure. This does not dismiss the person as someone who cannot learn, that person has simply chosen not to in favor of learning or developing in other areas. There is no higher or lower, just different directions. As we are all different, we choose different paths, and are at different stages of progress in the areas we feel are important and so choose to pursue.

As far as your analogy
Alisima wrote:An analogy: say we both have 5000 dollars and we both get robbed. From you, however, the thiefs take 2000 dollars and from me they take only 1000 dollars. Then ofcourse one can say that I have more money then you, that I have more wealth than you, but in reality the thiefs just took less.
If we both have 5000 dollars, and a thief takes more money from you, if I said "I have more money than you." That would still be a true statement, regardless of how much money we had to begin with. This doesn't apply in any way to what I'm saying, but I thought I'd point that out.

It is clear that you made an out of place (and arguably rude) comment based on things I have not even said, rather what you 'read into' them. I could understand your statement if I had said something like "People who dont meditate are usually stupid.". Now when Zark has pointed out the obvious (which I had ignored as it serves no purpose), you craft some abstract explanation based on absolutely nothing that I talked about. I feel however that I owe you and others a clarification of my views so that this confusing clutter can finally be put to rest and productive posts can once again resume in this topic.

Oh, and sorry about my absence lately. I had a motherboard fry. I'll try to be on more.
Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. - Gospel of Thomas
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

rude insults VS social cohesion, trust

Post: # 8977Post Zark »

Frozn wrote:Now when Zark has pointed out the obvious (which I had ignored as it serves no purpose)
Unless steering us further off topic is useful :)

Seriously though, we are not all emotionless zombies / vulcan's. Sensitive people can be deeply hurt when people are rude and inconsiderate to them. It only builds resentment and distrust.. and under such an environment we as a group are weaker for it.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

Post: # 8979Post Zark »

Vesko wrote:As we all know, Thao has been careful to make the distinction between meditation and concentration. Which to me logically means that there is only one experience that can be named true or full meditation: this is not having any thoughts at all.
Yes, I have wondered about what the correct definition is for meditation.. or at least what Thao means when she talks of meditation.

I am sympathetic to the view that it is the state of no thought / no mind. But perhaps that is a very Zen / Chan Buddhism way of looking at this.

... Another way of looking at the mind and meditation : …
Think of the mind as a muscle. Strong muscles need at least three things: good nutrition, periods of rest, and periods of activity.

Rest. If a muscle is over-worked or tense all the time it will soon become weak. Likewise if our mind is tense all the time it becomes weak and relatively useless. Muscles need periods of rest in which to recuperate. Likewise the mind needs periods of stillness / inactivity in order to recuperate - hence the need for sleep and meditation. Our poorly formed psyche's are constantly worrying, anxious and tense (even in our sleep). The zen methodology for no-mind / no-though is a practical way of bringing the mind to a state of stillness and rest.. but I believe it is not the only way.

Activity. Muscles also need periods of activity or else they will whither away. Likewise the mind needs periods of activity in order to strengthen it. Perhaps this would include things like puzzles (programming?), kundalini / chakra exercises, yoga, etc.

Nutrition. Good food for your muscles is a no-brainer :). Good food for the mind might be a good book.. or if you are so inclined maybe some spiritual food like the bhagavad gita, the gospels, or the buddhist sutras. Everyone has their own preferences for food, why hate one person because he likes bread, or another because he prefers rice :)

So with the above in mind I believe that meditation *might* include any practice that can: still the mind, bring inner peace, or makes the mind relaxed and supple.[/b]
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

Hierarchical structures / Hierarchies / information flow

Post: # 9013Post Zark »

Alisima wrote:....Frozn said, or that is what I read into it, that people higher on the spiritual ladder, or people that have more spiritual talents, more easily slip into meditative states. Well, that may all be true, and as far as I know, it is! But it, perphase unintentionally, brings about the idea of a hierachy....
Hi Alisima, I was wondering whether you had some grudge against hierarchies? It is quite a common way to think I suppose since our authority figures are so prone to abuse of power. Anyways, this got me thinking about hierarchies and how prevalent they are in nature...

Hierarchical structures are about more than structures of authority. Hierarchies are also about structures of information flow. For instance the flow of data on the internet forms hierarchical structures, also the postal system, and the flow of sap in a tree and the structure of its limbs. Pluck a leaf from a tree and you will very likely see a hierarchical structure in its veins. Our circulatory system with its arteries, veins and capillaries. I suppose even the structure of our brains. Also the structure of higher selves described in TP is a tree like hierarchy. Nature makes use of hierarchical structures so readily because they are so efficient and they just plain work!

Well I certainly don't wish to say that all hierarchies are desirable.. I don't for instance wish to join the hierarchy of the Catholic church! :P
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
User avatar
Alisima
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post: # 9023Post Alisima »

Hmm, that is an old discussion. I remember what I was trying to get across. I was basically warning for the "I am holier than thou"-attitude. Perhapse I shouldn't have used the word 'hierarchy', since I was pointing to something more concrete.

Anyhow, no, I hold no grudge against hierarchies. Hierarchy is too abstract to be either labeled good or bad, one has to review that on a case-to-case basis.
Don't read my signature.
Frozn
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:58 pm
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Post: # 9026Post Frozn »

Once again Alisima, words that I haven't said, and meanings that I never meant. While I regret that your reasoning brought you to such a conclusion, I will not waste my time re-re-re-clarifying what I did in fact say and mean.

You do realize youre continuing bickering that stopped over a year ago. Would it be holier than thou of me to suggest that you grow up? :lol:
Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. - Gospel of Thomas
User avatar
Alisima
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post: # 9030Post Alisima »

Ahh, it is just some miscommunication we have never succesfully resolved. The reason I brought it up was to give Zark a context behind the word 'hierarchy', to explain that I used the word concretely.
Don't read my signature.
Post Reply