Mental and Physical Afflictions?

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Yothu
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Mental and Physical Afflictions?

Post: # 3744Post Yothu »

Those born with mental or physical afflictions are more spiritually advanced than others, born to help others evolve spiritually.
Quote by Sandra Rogers

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How does it come? I do not quite understand the meaning of this sentence. Any ideas?
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Vesko
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Post: # 3747Post Vesko »

Part of the meaning is that if you are born with an illness, you are guaranteed to be more evolved. The other part is that by being born with an illness, you can help others. I think the first part is completely false, and that the second part is, evidently, true. I think that it is very difficult to judge by illnesses about the spiritual development of a person at our level (category) of evolution. If you are born with an illness, it might be because you have to pay for a mistake in previous life. It could also be that you want to test / remind / limit yourself in some aspect so that you are forced to turn to other aspects of yourself that you would not have enhanced had you been healthy. One could argue that all mental illnesses have their roots in serious personal mistakes, but what about physical causes of mental illnesses, i.e. you could be very evolved, but if your brain or certain nerves are damaged, you could still appear to be unevolved. Being born with a damaged body following a nuclear catastrophe does not entail that you yourself are not developed spiritually, but you, as a part of the community that caused the nuclear catastrophe, have to pay a collective karmic debt, hence the illness.
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Post: # 3748Post Yothu »

Very interesting. I though about trisomy 21, that parents and other members of the family learn much about love and tolerance when raising and living with such children and adults.
Vesko wrote: It could also be that you want to test / remind / limit yourself in some aspect so that you are forced to turn to other aspects of yourself that you would not have enhanced had you been healthy.
Like the author of "A brief history of time", Stephen Hawking, for example? (the only prominent that came to my mind. guess because it had been discussed on the TFOC forum)
One could argue that all mental illnesses have their roots in serious personal mistakes, but what about physical causes of mental illnesses, i.e. you could be very evolved, but if your brain or certain nerves are damaged, you could still appear to be unevolved.
You mean authistic people for example? Is it in order for us to notice their mental capabilites for examle that they do appear they way they are (authists seem to have mental afflictions)?
Being born with a damaged body following a nuclear catastrophe does not entail that you yourself are not developed spiritually, but you, as a part of the community that caused the nuclear catastrophe, have to pay a collective karmic debt, hence the illness.
What do you mean by "collective karmic debt"? Please eloborate.
Is it the extreme of the lesson that a community, a society has the duty of preserving and passing on a healthy and undamaged natural environment? I believe there is a huge complexity of what can be learnt by such a collective experience. eg. Making the best out of you have, learning to take other fellow beings into account and the consequences for them when taking action on a great scale. It is all individual in the first place, isn't it?
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Post: # 3749Post trumpet_is_cool »

I`m born with some physical Limitations (Asthma,allergics,dermatitis...Asthma and some allergics disappeard over the last years), i don`t agree that peoples with inborn limitations are born more evolved BUT the possibility that they get more evolved is higher....

Imagine that you had dermatitis and Asthma (Or an other limitation), the other kids won`t touch you or play with you and you can`t do sports....What would you do ? Wouldn`t you not start to think/learn more and search for acception through knowledge ? The Illness forces you to become more mental and MAYBE spiritual advanced...Without an Illness you have really to choose yourself if you wan`t to become more advanced or if you would like to "bimbo around" with the masses ;-)

I think this is the point of "You learn the most if you suffer", in the eyes of Sandra it seems as if the people are born with the wisdom, thats not the case, they spend simply more time with thinking/are more alone compared to "normal" peoples...I think that you like to help others because you had yourself a "hard time" without ,or with little, help.So you wan`t to do it better and try to help everybody as good as possible....
Being born with a damaged body following a nuclear catastrophe does not entail that you yourself are not developed spiritually, but you, as a part of the community that caused the nuclear catastrophe, have to pay a collective karmic debt, hence the illness.
I don`t agree, in this case everybody is limited in a similar way, so that you can`t see this as a limitation, it`s "normal" then...It wouldn`t have an effect on the development.

To state it clear, it doesn`t mean that a healthy person is less spiritual/mental advanced ! I`m talking just from possibilities of becoming more advanced ;-)
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Post: # 3751Post Alisima »

Anyone who is out of the norm will have more possibilities to learn/evolve. But I can't agree with the statemant that mental or physical people are bound to be more evolved. I know some people with mental illnesses and/or physical ones, but I can't say they are more evolved than other people I know. Most people with physical illnesses are too much body-orientated. Specially in there earlier stages of there life when there is much body-condemnation.

If I where to loose all my limps due to a physical illness, or would have just about any body-restraint, I would certainly try some out-of-body work. But until OBE is scientifically acknowledge I doubt many handicapped will do it.
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Post: # 3753Post Vesko »

yothu wrote:Very interesting. I though about trisomy 21, that parents and other members of the family learn much about love and tolerance when raising and living with such children and adults.
Yes, Down's syndrome and even more terrible afflictions. There is so much suffering on this planet and we as a society seem to be doing so little about it.
yothu wrote:Like the author of "A brief history of time", Stephen Hawking, for example? (the only prominent that came to my mind. guess because it had been discussed on the TFOC forum)
Yes. He must have learnt a lot. But it is bad that he sees technology as the driving force of human evolution. I wonder what it will take to change his mind on that important point.
yothu wrote:
Vesko wrote:One could argue that all mental illnesses have their roots in serious personal mistakes, but what about physical causes of mental illnesses, i.e. you could be very evolved, but if your brain or certain nerves are damaged, you could still appear to be unevolved.
You mean authistic people for example? Is it in order for us to notice their mental capabilites for examle that they do appear they way they are (authists seem to have mental afflictions)?
Not only autistic people, but them, too. I recently saw the famous Kim Peek, an autist, in an interview. The things he does are almost unbelieveable -- mentally he is above 99.999% of the people on Earth, and yet he does seem to have some mental afflictions.

I meant a lot of people who are born mentally handicapped but their mind is not at all the reason for the handicap. Since there are a lot of people who go mentally ill because of physical causes (other illnesses, physical damage from accidents, etc.) well after they were born, there must be a lot of people who are normal mentally, but were born in a body with a handicapped neurous system. A damaged, undeveloped, untrained, etc. body can make you appear to be stupid, unevolved, clumsy, etc. because it interferes with the mind, yet the mind may be sound and developed.
yothu wrote:
Vesko wrote:Being born with a damaged body following a nuclear catastrophe does not entail that you yourself are not developed spiritually, but you, as a part of the community that caused the nuclear catastrophe, have to pay a collective karmic debt, hence the illness.
What do you mean by "collective karmic debt"? Please eloborate.
Is it the extreme of the lesson that a community, a society has the duty of preserving and passing on a healthy and undamaged natural environment? I believe there is a huge complexity of what can be learnt by such a collective experience. eg. Making the best out of you have, learning to take other fellow beings into account and the consequences for them when taking action on a great scale. It is all individual in the first place, isn't it?
Yes, I would say that we have shared responsibility to keep the planet healthy, and we are in the same boat, as the book says. Nature is incomparably powerful with any of us, and everyone should watch our steps with respect to her.
trumpet_is_cool wrote:I`m born with some physical Limitations (Asthma,allergics,dermatitis...Asthma and some allergics disappeard over the last years), i don`t agree that peoples with inborn limitations are born more evolved BUT the possibility that they get more evolved is higher....
Yes, but we should have in mind that the more spiritually evolved you are, the more physical handicaps are just useless obstacles that unnecessarily slow you down.

I have developed an allergy (hay fever) in early childhood. Still cannot get out of it (if ever in this lifetime), but I seem to be making progress through yoga, jogging and other positive lifestyle.
trumpet_is_cool wrote:Imagine that you had dermatitis and Asthma (Or an other limitation), the other kids won`t touch you or play with you and you can`t do sports....What would you do ? Wouldn`t you not start to think/learn more and search for acception through knowledge ? The Illness forces you to become more mental and MAYBE spiritual advanced...Without an Illness you have really to choose yourself if you wan`t to become more advanced or if you would like to "bimbo around" with the masses
Especially in the past when I had not been actively countering the allergy, I had been naturally forced to stay more indoors when the allergy strikes, and this had definitely isolated me from others to a certain degree that was not insignificant. And exactly as you say, I think I have had more intellectual pursuits than I would have had otherwise. You put it well that "without illness you have to really choose yourself...", because making the best choices at times when you are most informed about your spiritual evolution (for most of us, that time is between reincarnation), increases your chances for future evolution to actually occur.
trumpet_is_cool wrote:
Vesko wrote:Being born with a damaged body following a nuclear catastrophe does not entail that you yourself are not developed spiritually, but you, as a part of the community that caused the nuclear catastrophe, have to pay a collective karmic debt, hence the illness.
I don`t agree, in this case everybody is limited in a similar way, so that you can`t see this as a limitation, it`s "normal" then...It wouldn`t have an effect on the development.
Not sure what exactly you don't agree with. The collective karmic debt in this case just means that since we are all part of Nature, and Nature has been severely disturbed, we all have to suffer the consequences no matter who and which group of people actually detonated the bomb. And of course it is a limitation -- everyone is limited, though. It would have an effect on spiritual development, too -- it will slow you down. Or perhaps I am missing something and have used a misnomer?
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Post: # 3754Post trumpet_is_cool »

I don`t agree, in this case everybody is limited in a similar way, so that you can`t see this as a limitation, it`s "normal" then...It wouldn`t have an effect on the development.
Not sure what exactly you don't agree with. The collective karmic debt in this case just means that since we are all part of Nature, and Nature has been severely disturbed, we all have to suffer the consequences no matter who and which group of people actually detonated the bomb. And of course it is a limitation -- everyone is limited, though. It would have an effect on spiritual development, too -- it will slow you down. Or perhaps I am missing something and have used a misnomer?
Put it in this way: If erverybody is born ,for example, with open sores due to a nuclear war it would be "normal" to have open sores, nobody would avoid contact with you or verbal hurt you because everybody has similar physical limitations and know how it is/feels...

What i didn`t understand is why a physical limitation should slow down your spiritual development ???

TP:
"At the moment, most responsibility is taken for the physical body, but this is a serious mistake. If your psyche is poor, it will influence your physical appearance accordingly, but, regardless, your physical body will wear out and die one day whereas your psyche, being part of your Astral body, never dies. On the contrary, the more you cultivate your mind, the less you will be burdened by body and the quicker you will proceed through your cycle of lives."

This doesn`t mean that you didn`t progress fast if you are physical limited, the key is that you cultivate your mind and not your body, if the physical body had an influence of spiritual development all supermodels or very healthy persons would be "enlightened" persons...
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Post: # 3755Post Vesko »

trumpet_is_cool wrote:What i didn`t understand is why a physical limitation should slow down your spiritual development ???

TP:
"At the moment, most responsibility is taken for the physical body, but this is a serious mistake. If your psyche is poor, it will influence your physical appearance accordingly, but, regardless, your physical body will wear out and die one day whereas your psyche, being part of your Astral body, never dies. On the contrary, the more you cultivate your mind, the less you will be burdened by body and the quicker you will proceed through your cycle of lives."

This doesn`t mean that you didn`t progress fast if you are physical limited, the key is that you cultivate your mind and not your body, if the physical body had an influence of spiritual development all supermodels or very healthy persons would be "enlightened" persons...
Yes, the physical body does have an immense influence on spiritual development. The book never says don't cultivate your physical body or don't think about it. It says don't focus too much on it and focus mainly on the mind instead. The physical body is extremely important. From the book (chapter "A Different Alien and My Former Lives", page 127 in the current edition):
"The physical body is but a tool. A sculptor's chisel and hammer are tools; they will never reach beauty on their own, but they contribute to it in the hands of an artist. A wonderful statue could not have been created with the artist's bare hands."
By having physical afflictions, one's hands become barer, how much so depends on the number and serousness of the afflictions. The less bare one's hands are (the less afflictions one has and the better one's body is), the faster and better one can potentially work (develop spiritually). Note I said potentially. One may have a lot of tools, but become complacent about it and show off/brag about them a lot, doing little useful work (supermodels?). Or one could have significantly fewer and less powerful tools, and use them wisely for hard work, and pull way ahead before the one with the more numerous/greater tools. But there will come a point when even with the hardest work one will not be able to progress unless one obtains a new, different and/or better tool. Why all developed yogis and the people of Thiaoouba seem to be free of physical afflictions? Why aren't they loaded with illnesses? Because at their level of evolution this will just slow them down and even make further progress impossible -- but note, at their level of evolution. The Thiaooubans even have significantly different bodies than us, to aid them in their evolution. Their bodies even have some seeming luxuries such as perfect night vision (see at night as well as they can during the day).

In the case of a nuclear blast, I think a lot of people's evolution will be slowed down, because their current physical bodies will have to die prematurely, and then be reborn, and perhaps even those bodies will die prematurely and even several ones following them. According to the book, when one dies, one's material memory is erased. Material knowledge is necessary for obtaining spiritual knowledge, therefore one will have to waste time learning things one could have already known before dying as a result of the nuclear blast. It's like, when you are rebooting a computer (a contemporary inexpensive one), its RAM memory is erased and you cannot do any work with it until the boot process finishes and the data is loaded from the hard disk, which takes noticeable time.

A lot of our religions are forcing their followers to ignore the physical body, and even consider it creation or a device of the Devil. I shudder when I think how many conscientious people have been misled by that. People are conditioned to suppress their physical body, and no wonder that after some time passes, people revolt against it and plunge into body worship, which is equally wrong as suppressing one's physicality.
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Post: # 3757Post trumpet_is_cool »

"The physical body is but a tool. A sculptor's chisel and hammer are tools; they will never reach beauty on their own, but they contribute to it in the hands of an artist. A wonderful statue could not have been created with the artist's bare hands."
By having physical afflictions, one's hands become barer, how much so depends on the number and serousness of the afflictions. The less bare one's hands are (the less afflictions one has and the better one's body is), the faster and better one can potentially work (develop spiritually). Note I said potentially. One may have a lot of tools, but become complacent about it and show off/brag about them a lot, doing little useful work (supermodels?). Or one could have significantly fewer and less powerful tools, and use them wisely for hard work, and pull way ahead before the one with the more numerous/greater tools. But there will come a point when even with the hardest work one will not be able to progress unless one obtains a new, different and/or better tool.
Okay, then we have here different opinons...For me is the physical Body THE tool,designed for the specific Task in this life and it doesn`t matter for my spiritual development speed how much i "tune it up"....I agree that mental work will influence my physical Body [For example: I get rid of my Hay feaver since i started to meditate]...I`m pretty sure that i would w/o my limitations bimbo around instead of typing this post ;-) I don`t need muscle masses or a perfect skin or even my legs to meditate/think and develop spiritually...
Why all developed yogis and the people of Thiaoouba seem to be free of physical afflictions? Why aren't they loaded with illnesses?
TP:
"the more you cultivate your mind, the less you will be burdened by body"

I don`t think it works in the other direction like the common esoteric knowledge is...However...I can`t proof it....
In the case of a nuclear blast, I think a lot of people's evolution will be slowed down, because their current physical bodies will have to die prematurely, and then be reborn, and perhaps even those bodies will die prematurely and even several ones following them. According to the book, when one dies, one's material memory is erased. Material knowledge is necessary for obtaining spiritual knowledge, therefore one will have to waste time learning things one could have already known before dying as a result of the nuclear blast. It's like, when you are rebooting a computer (a contemporary inexpensive one), its RAM memory is erased and you cannot do any work with it until the boot process finishes and the data is loaded from the hard disk, which takes noticeable time.
Some (ALL ?) people learn the most about spiritually when they die, the people from the nuclear blast will not have long lives so eventually they make even faster progress.
Your material Memory will always be erased. If the material knowledge is relevant for your spiritual progress: How would you get sure that a yogi or you continue your spiritual development in the next live ? It would be SO easy that you regress due to materialism and didn`t choose the spiritual way... I think you will continue from your last point and to get sure that you do it you MIGHT get limitations as "protection" to spend too much time with material things and get faster "back on track",This "protection" might not be needed at higher Evolved / less materialistic Planets...That`s just a tought that MIGHT had Sandra too
People are conditioned to suppress their physical body, and no wonder that after some time passes, people revolt against it and plunge into body worship, which is equally wrong as suppressing one's physicality.
I don`t say you should suppress it, but people are so keen to do "wellness","sports","Body Building","healthy living"....Do you really think that this helps them with spiritual development ? Your lifetime is nothing in the relation to the age of the Universe and should be used wisely...However there is no "black or white", there are degrees of "Suppression"....It is also a huge difference if you are born with limitations or if you limitate yourself (e.g. eating so much that you are getting fat and in turn ill) but even in this case your life will be shortened what can also be some kind of "faster spiritual development" ;-)
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Post: # 3758Post Vesko »

trumpet_is_cool wrote:Okay, then we have here different opinons...For me is the physical Body THE tool,designed for the specific Task in this life and it doesn`t matter for my spiritual development speed how much i "tune it up"....
Do you seriously think this? Why do yogis then need to learn complex physical breathing exercises? Why does a typical yoga program passed to us from millenia contains typically hundreds of postures that are to be practiced for decades during one's lifetime in order to prepare one's body to better serve the spirit?
I agree that mental work will influence my physical Body [For example: I get rid of my Hay feaver since i started to meditate]...I`m pretty sure that i would w/o my limitations bimbo around instead of typing this post ;-) I don`t need muscle masses or a perfect skin or even my legs to meditate/think and develop spiritually...
I think you do need quite a bit of muscle mass in order to meditate successfully and lead a normal physically active life. Also I bet you really need your legs -- not having legs and/or arms is severely crippling and inevitably effects the rest of your body considerably negatively. All people who are paralyzed or lack some limbs have very significant problems caused by their forced sedentary life. You wouldn't even think to want to be like them.
Why all developed yogis and the people of Thiaoouba seem to be free of physical afflictions? Why aren't they loaded with illnesses?
TP:
"the more you cultivate your mind, the less you will be burdened by body"
Yes, that is true, but the previous quote I gave is true, too.
I don`t think it works in the other direction like the common esoteric knowledge is...However...I can`t proof it...
It indeed does work both ways and the people of Thiaoouba say nothing to deny it. "Healthy body, healthy mind", which is a very popular saying, is wisdom distilled through the ages.
Some (ALL ?) people learn the most about spiritually when they die, the people from the nuclear blast will not have long lives so eventually they make even faster progress.
Your material Memory will always be erased. If the material knowledge is relevant for your spiritual progress: How would you get sure that a yogi or you continue your spiritual development in the next live ? It would be SO easy that you regress due to materialism and didn`t choose the spiritual way... I think you will continue from your last point and to get sure that you do it you MIGHT get limitations as "protection" to spend too much time with material things and get faster "back on track",This "protection" might not be needed at higher Evolved / less materialistic Planets...That`s just a tought that MIGHT had Sandra too
Yes, you get from the last point and you can set up limitations and all, but do you realize that it takes 9 months before you are born, as well as years afterwards until you are fully conscious. While those early life periods pass, one is not learning at one's full capacity. Imagine how much we would learn if we stayed all the time as babies, and our physical bodies never grew and developed?
I don`t say you should suppress it, but people are so keen to do "wellness","sports","Body Building","healthy living"....Do you really think that this helps them with spiritual development ? Your lifetime is nothing in the relation to the age of the Universe and should be used wisely...However there is no "black or white", there are degrees of "Suppression"....It is also a huge difference if you are born with limitations or if you limitate yourself (e.g. eating so much that you are getting fat and in turn ill) but even in this case your life will be shortened what can also be some kind of "faster spiritual development" ;-)
Haven't said that you said you should suppress it, only noted it because it is related to what you said.

So you think that sports and careful eating have no or insignificant bearing to spiritual development? I know first hand that both make an immense, incomparable difference to what I would be without them. I would be able to think and develop mentally / spiritually many times less without them. Anyone on the forum having similar experience / knowledge?
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Post: # 3759Post Alisima »

I have to agree with trumpet_is_cool here. Although you body can play an indirect part in your well being, it's health is not related to your "inner" health. Many enlightened persons, including buddha, have died from a disease. And they simply accepted it. Furthermore, there are many yoga's who have perfect shaped and healthy bodies, but are not enlightened yet.

Let me explain yoga a bit. Back in the old days there were some people who undergo what they called a kundalini awakening. During this awakening the body would automatically take several positions, in order to cleanse the body. Now, yoga is trying to do the reverse, cleansing the body so that the spirit can evolve. However, there are many people who are very egoistic because they can stand on there head for 1 hour. Not very spiritual one might say. In fact, many yogic postures are only beneficial when there are not exaggerated. Therefor, many people insist that you take lessons from a yogic master, who tells you what is right for you and what not. Do not venture on your own here!

Although the body is important, it is not THAT important as yoga suggests. I would say you only need to sit and stand with a straight spline in order to become enlightened, and I think you even can do it without sitting straight.

One has to understand that the body is at the bottom of the chain. If you wish to change something you can best start high up at the chain, and directly affect everything below. The body WILL change according to your "inner" health. NOT the other way around.

But, I dont say you should neglect the body. No, eat healthy. Do some sports. And sit and walk with a straight spline. That is the most comfortable.
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Post: # 3760Post trumpet_is_cool »

[edit: This answer was written in the same time as alisima wrotes her reply, i edited my answer to put also a reply to her post in it, i didn`t edited my answer to the reply from Vesko]

[Related to Post of Vesko]
I do accept your opinon, the thing is that i truly NOT believe that the physical body is that important, it`s like all material things absolutly temporary...

It`s a piece of flesh used to collect experiences in a material World, not more and not less...

The great Spirit doesn`t have a physical Body and developed great without one ! To the thing before birth, i had a couple of month`s ago some kind of regression during meditation, these Experiences had a huge influence on me : I remembered my birth,i felt very comfortable,floating around and the last thing before i opened my eyes and took my first breath was the thought "Oh no...Not AGAIN...I don`t wanna go" and that i was really pissed about this,it was a feel as if somebody awakes you at 3am from a very nice dream...Then i felt the love from my parents and thought "okay...Maybe it isn`t so bad,seems that i`m needed".From this point on i remember nothing, it seems that my previous wisdom was then totally ereased.Another glimp that i remember is that you are not 100 % conscious after birth, it seems that "you" (Astralbody) arrives in the new home (physical Body) step by step like charging a battery, if you watch babys you might notice that they often seems mental to be in an other world (they are looking without an target and grapping in the air etc.)...Also my experience started with the first breath/opening the eyes and seeing the light in the hospital, i can`t remember where i was before but i was not in the physical Body...

After this Experience i didn`t had any fear of death because i knowed that i was before birth really happy ! However i knowed also through other meditations that i have still a job to do here (Everytime where i`m shortly before an OBE i get the thought "No, i will not go, i`m not finished").The only thing is that i didn`t know the job.

Honestly, i truly believe that the physical body is just a tool and limitations have no negative influence of your spiritual development, the opposite seems to be right, you learn the most when you suffer...Note that i really enjoy my life and to explore many things (maybe again....) but it`s nothing compared to the satisfaction that i had before my birth, i know that i will be back there again one time and till then i make the best possible out of my life and it doesn`t matter what`s happened in this life....This experience made me really strong and since this i simply live and smile.

However it doesn`t make sense to continue this discussion because we have both different views and have to accept this... ;-)

[Related to Post of Alisima]
During this awakening the body would automatically take several positions, in order to cleanse the body.
Hey this is exactly what happened since my first meditations! I later read the yoga stuff about the Bandhas etc. and then thought "well...That happened to me,why it is necessary to practise it ?", i had also this feel of the kundulani "energy" walking towards the spine, it tooks a few meditations over two weeks to let this energy travel to the head...
There are still "strange" things happening during meditation like muscle activities that move like waves over the corso,a suddenly stretching/winding of the whole body,an enormous vibrating or an expanse of the abs (felts as if it must look as if i`m pregnant :-) ) followed by a suddenly collapse of the expansed abs and then a huge flow of "energy" through the whole body what is always a great sensation...For me it is as if the "soul" tryes to escape from the body but the body didn`t allow it, it`s a feel as if you are fixed with chains and try to break them...Plus there are also the other sensations during meditation like the high sound,feeling the activity of the chakras,sometimes Visions (i find them a little disturbing,they usally comes if i`m very tired) etc. But i`m far off-topic now....Sorry :-)
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Post: # 3761Post Vesko »

I disagree with most of what both of you said, but I too respect your opinion as my own and wish you all the best on the path you have chosen. Perhaps after some time we could discuss the subject again. We are at the start of our spiritual development and it is inevitable that we would change some or all of our views and opinions in the future. :)
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Post: # 3762Post Alisima »

trumpet_is_cool wrote:Hey this is exactly what happened since my first meditations! I later read the yoga stuff about the Bandhas etc. and then thought "well...That happened to me,why it is necessary to practise it ?", i had also this feel of the kundulani "energy" walking towards the spine, it tooks a few meditations over two weeks to let this energy travel to the head...
There are still "strange" things happening during meditation like muscle activities that move like waves over the corso,a suddenly stretching/winding of the whole body,an enormous vibrating or an expanse of the abs (felts as if it must look as if i`m pregnant :-) ) followed by a suddenly collapse of the expansed abs and then a huge flow of "energy" through the whole body what is always a great sensation...For me it is as if the "soul" tryes to escape from the body but the body didn`t allow it, it`s a feel as if you are fixed with chains and try to break them...Plus there are also the other sensations during meditation like the high sound,feeling the activity of the chakras,sometimes Visions (i find them a little disturbing,they usally comes if i`m very tired) etc. But i`m far off-topic now....Sorry :-)
You should simply let these things happen. In time they will subdue. You should not place much importance upon it. Just like I said, cleasing. There are people stuck in this stage because they find the energy and sensations very amusing. They think it is a sign of progress, well it is, but there is much more beyond that.
Vesko wrote:I disagree with most of what both of you said, but I too respect your opinion as my own and wish you all the best on the path you have chosen. Perhaps after some time we could discuss the subject again.
Yes, that would be much wiser instead of a word-fight. Anyway, I do not fully agree with you, but from a certain viewpoint, you are absolutly correct. Yet, from another viewpoint, you are not. Truth depends on how you look at it.[/quote]
Don't read my signature.
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bomohwkl
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Post: # 3764Post bomohwkl »

I think physical body is as important as the mental body. You can think and think. It is just theoretical. Body is needed to interact with the environments (people, social system, etc) in order to learn more about yourself.
Experience is needed to verify some of the theories and even gain further insights about yourself that you might never get from reading books. The good thing is you will have a real life example to verify your theoretical understanding.

People who think too much (more inner-ward person) without taking actions might find themselves having difficulty of reconciling the material reality. That's including me.

I am in a stage of learning to reconcile the material reality. It is DIFFICULT! Full of sense of insecurity about the material world. Single and living half the globe away from my family aren't making things simpler!

Yet the signature of love (aura) is defined by people who has achieved the balance between material reality (red) and spiritual affinity (purple).
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