Mental and Physical Afflictions?

A place to discuss the higher self, chakras, meditation, spiritual healing, and other methods of healing.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Alisima
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post: # 3765Post Alisima »

bomohwkl wrote:I think physical body is as important as the mental body. You can think and think. It is just theoretical. Body is needed to interact with the environments (people, social system, etc) in order to learn more about yourself.
Experience is needed to verify some of the theories and even gain further insights about yourself that you might never get from reading books. The good thing is you will have a real life example to verify your theoretical understanding.
You are absolutly correct. In fact, I believe the mental body and the physical body are one and the same. Although many religions and beliefs consider them apart from eachother, I think they are not.
bomohwkl wrote:People who think too much (more inner-ward person) without taking actions might find themselves having difficulty of reconciling the material reality. That's including me.

I am in a stage of learning to reconcile the material reality. It is DIFFICULT! Full of sense of insecurity about the material world. Single and living half the globe away from my family aren't making things simpler!
From a mental perspective it is extremely difficult, if not impossible. You'll have to loose that, you can't be calculative and playfull at the same time. But it will be hard, best is to try to find a friend who is less mind and more heart, he can teach you much, and you him.
bomohwkl wrote:Yet the signature of love (aura) is defined by people who has achieved the balance between material reality (red) and spiritual affinity (purple).
That may be the case, but that does not mean we all need to be red and purple.[/quote]
Don't read my signature.
User avatar
Yothu
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:46 am
Location: Europe
Contact:

Post: # 3767Post Yothu »

I generally agree with Vesko.

I think proper physical exercise makes a huge difference in utilizing your mental faculties. Just practise Tibetan5 for example for two weeks and you will notice.

I don't wanna be with no legs...
In fact, I believe the mental body and the physical body are one and the same.
I don't think so. Maybe there is a misunderstanding.

If I sting you with a needle, do you feel mental pain?

Another question: Is pain solely mental?

I am in Hungary at the moment. At my favorite dentist. I succeeded in making sympthoms of pain barely noticable. I had two "root treatments" without lidocaine, which is an analgetic. I could stand the pain for half an hour, maybe 45 minutes before my body could not bare it anymore.
If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you always got.
User avatar
Alisima
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post: # 3770Post Alisima »

yothu wrote:I generally agree with Vesko.

I think proper physical exercise makes a huge difference in utilizing your mental faculties. Just practise Tibetan5 for example for two weeks and you will notice.
Like I said, the body and mind connected, proper training on either one of them will also help the other.
yothu wrote:
Alisima wrote:In fact, I believe the mental body and the physical body are one and the same.
I don't think so. Maybe there is a misunderstanding.
What I mean with mental body, was the mind. Not actually a body ofcourse, sorry for that.
yothu wrote:If I sting you with a needle, do you feel mental pain?
Pain and the painlimit are very interesting. If one would do a search one would quickly find people who can withstand huge amount of pain. Ever heard of the monks who can walk on hot coals, or those who can sit outside the whole night in the snow only wearing a wet t-shirt?? And, like you might have already suspected, it is a mental technique, although I have not yet verified it. :wink:

Anyway, I believe that in a right frame of mind one cannot feel pain.[/quote]
Don't read my signature.
User avatar
Robanan
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:27 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post: # 3777Post Robanan »

That doesn't mean that the mind and the body are one and the same Alisima. We always use our mind to overcome the limits of our body, either we take nature as an example or else.... ; and still if an artist would lose his hands he won't forget drawing (or any of the things he learned to do with his hands), The artist would have to face the choice of forgetting about drawing or to continue drawing, using other phisycal facilities of the body.
The essence of Consciousness, is the ability to Create, Process, Transmit and Receive Information Autonomously.
User avatar
Alisima
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post: # 3778Post Alisima »

Robanan wrote:That doesn't mean that the mind and the body are one and the same Alisima.
Perhapse the "one and the same" statement was misplaced. I don't mean mind = body. I meant, the mind is a part of the body.
Robanan wrote:We always use our mind to overcome the limits of our body, either we take nature as an example or else.... ;
I am sorry, I do not understand what your are implying here.
Robanan wrote:and still if an artist would lose his hands he won't forget drawing (or any of the things he learned to do with his hands), The artist would have to face the choice of forgetting about drawing or to continue drawing, using other phisycal facilities of the body.
Haha, no I did not mean such a degree of connectivity, you are thinking too much physical here.

Anyway, I no longer believe that the mind is seperated from the body. Just like the waves are also not seperated from the ocean. We have been so much identified with our thoughts and ideas that we believe the proces of thinking/analysing to be seperated from our body. But let me remind you of the enormous tasks the mind, perhapse unconscious, handles, which are directly related to the body. Like breathing, or our heartbeat, or digestion. Furthermore, where is our mind?? Where is it's location?? Most westeners believe it to be in their head. While in fact it is everywhere throughout our body, from our big toe to our shoulders. You could actually say that the mind is the higher aspect of the body.
Don't read my signature.
User avatar
trumpet_is_cool
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: Germany

Post: # 3779Post trumpet_is_cool »

Alisima wrote: Anyway, I no longer believe that the mind is seperated from the body. Just like the waves are also not seperated from the ocean. We have been so much identified with our thoughts and ideas that we believe the proces of thinking/analysing to be seperated from our body. But let me remind you of the enormous tasks the mind, perhapse unconscious, handles, which are directly related to the body. Like breathing, or our heartbeat, or digestion. Furthermore, where is our mind?? Where is it's location?? Most westeners believe it to be in their head. While in fact it is everywhere throughout our body, from our big toe to our shoulders. You could actually say that the mind is the higher aspect of the body.
If the mind isn`t seperated, or let`s say can`t get seperated, how would you explain the OBE/NDE Storys where people have left their physical Body ? It was for them a "normal" feel, they was able to think and they remembered their experiences.
User avatar
Alisima
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post: # 3780Post Alisima »

trumpet_is_cool wrote:If the mind isn`t seperated, or let`s say can`t get seperated, how would you explain the OBE/NDE Storys where people have left their physical Body ? It was for them a "normal" feel, they was able to think and they remembered their experiences.
Well, that is a good question, actually. But you have to ask yourself whether, in an OBE, you actually leave the physical body. I know some very respectable people who actually say that you DON'T leave the physical body in an OBE or NDE. Simply because you are never IN it in the first place. Ofcourse, I don't know whether it is true. Firstly because I never have left my body, and secondly, because most OBE and NDE are VERY subjective experiences there is no telling what is true or not.
Don't read my signature.
User avatar
trumpet_is_cool
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: Germany

Post: # 3781Post trumpet_is_cool »

Alisima wrote: I know some very respectable people who actually say that you DON'T leave the physical body in an OBE or NDE. Simply because you are never IN it in the first place.
Okay...
When you are not in it, why should the physical body be "important" ? Couldn`t it be that "you" are not in it for "safety reasons" ? Any physical harm could otherwise have a detrimental effect on "you".
User avatar
Alisima
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post: # 3782Post Alisima »

trumpet_is_cool wrote:Okay...
When you are not in it, why should the physical body be "important" ?
Well, the physical body is important for learning. Although you can argue that you can learn similar things in a dreamlike envirnoment, I believe, however, the physical envirnoment to be one of a kind, and thus are the lessons learned also one of a kind. But I have to agree that I often had wondered why we are not just in a though/dream-envirnoment, where things are controlled by thought. I guess my answer to that is that we ARE in a envirnoment where things are controlled by thought. How else is levitation and other magical mambo-jambo possible??
trumpet_is_cool wrote:Couldn`t it be that "you" are not in it for "safety reasons" ? Any physical harm could otherwise have a detrimental effect on "you".
No, I believe the soul cannot be destroyed. And besides, as long as the soul is concearned there is no within and without.
Don't read my signature.
Bastian
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:32 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post: # 3783Post Bastian »

Alisima wrote:No, I believe the soul cannot be destroyed. And besides, as long as the soul is concearned there is no within and without.
I think by soul you meant 'astral body' (TP does use it in this sense). Didn't Thao or the Thaori say that an astral body would eventually be destroyed if it absolutely refused to learn? or am I just imagining it :-) .. I couldn't find the page..

I find the word 'soul' a little ambiguous as there is a fair amount of variation in the words meaning depending on who you ask. Just have a look at a few of the 'definitions':
from : http://www.mudrashram.com/glossarypage.html
Soul - the Second Octave of Being. It is also called the Higher Self, the Transpersonal Self, the Planetary Soul, or Atma. It is the ensouling entity of the Planetary Realm up to the Monad.


from : http://spiritwritings.com/channelingglossary.html
SOUL, the term is used in two senses: it indicates the ego and the spirit-body. In ancient writings man is described as a triune being: body, soul and spirit. According to this the soul is just as much an envelope, animated by the spirit, as the physical body is an envelope for the soul. At death the soul withdraws and continues to function in the spiritual world. Astral body and soul are almost equivalent terms. Occult teachings, however, speak of five bodies of differing degrees of refinement which will be cast away in time just as the physical body is left behind.


from : http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/a/aristotl.htm
The Soul and Psychology

Soul is defined by Aristotle as the perfect expression or realization of a natural body. From this definition it follows that there is a close connection between psychological states, and physiological processes. Body and soul are unified in the same way that wax and an impression stamped on it are unified. Metaphysicians before Aristotle discussed the soul abstractly without any regard to the bodily environment; this, Aristotle believes, was a mistake. At the same time, Aristotle regards the soul or mind not as the product of the physiological conditions of the body, but as the truth of the body -- the substance in which only the bodily conditions gain their real meaning.

The soul manifests its activity in certain "faculties" or "parts" which correspond with the stages of biological development, and are the faculties of nutrition (peculiar to plants), that of movement (peculiar to animals), and that of reason (peculiar to humans). These faculties resemble mathematical figures in which the higher includes the lower, and must be understood not as like actual physical parts, but like such aspects as convex and concave which we distinguish in the same line. The mind remains throughout a unity: and it is absurd to speak of it, as Plato did, as desiring with one part and feeling anger with another.
Last edited by Bastian on Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"All things derive their life from it [Tao] All things return to it, and it contains them." -- Tao Teh Ching
Bastian
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:32 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post: # 3784Post Bastian »

trumpet_is_cool wrote:If the mind isn`t seperated, or let`s say can`t get seperated, how would you explain the OBE/NDE Storys where people have left their physical Body ? It was for them a "normal" feel, they was able to think and they remembered their experiences.
That is a good example :). But we also have to consider some very interesting facts about how dependent our thought processes are on our physical body, hormones, neuron connections etc. Consider examples such as:
* the way ones personality can change profoundly if they consume a hormone, eg: testosterone
* how memories cease to be formed correctly when specific parts of the brain are damaged
* the effects of cutting the 'corpus colossum' : the left brain doesn't know what the right brain is doing !

I myself have noticed tremendous effects on my emotional state and ability to concentrate when fasting versus when eating junk food. The brain / mind / psyche connection is so closely connected that I think it becomes difficult for us to distinguish one from the other.
"All things derive their life from it [Tao] All things return to it, and it contains them." -- Tao Teh Ching
User avatar
trumpet_is_cool
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: Germany

Post: # 3785Post trumpet_is_cool »

Bastian wrote: That is a good example :). But we also have to consider some very interesting facts about how dependent our thought processes are on our physical body, hormones, neuron connections etc. Consider examples such as:
* the way ones personality can change profoundly if they consume a hormone, eg: testosterone
* how memories cease to be formed correctly when specific parts of the brain are damaged
* the effects of cutting the 'corpus colossum' : the left brain doesn't know what the right brain is doing !

I myself have noticed tremendous effects on my emotional state and ability to concentrate when fasting versus when eating junk food. The brain / mind / psyche connection is so closely connected that I think it becomes difficult for us to distinguish one from the other.
I think if you do fasting, or a deep meditation, you do "seperate" yourself from the physical body a bit, you will seperate completely if you do the fasting so long that you die ;-)

I see the brain as a "transceiver", it is not the "you" but it creates the illusion that "you" are in this Body, i see the physical Body a bit like a "Virtual Reality" device [a limiting one] for learning purpose, the "you" is left when you die. And it it`s the important part - Not the Physical Body, you change it dependant on your "mission".The physical Body is of course linked with the "you" but i can not imagine that the physical Body has an influence of the ,let`s say "undestroyable", Soul/You,it is undestroyable because the physical Body has no Influence on it.[But again, yes the soul/you has/can have an influence at your Physical Body (One-Way)]

This is just my view of my existence, you might have other views :-)
User avatar
Robanan
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:27 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post: # 3787Post Robanan »

Robanan wrote:We always use our mind to overcome the limits of our body, either we take nature as an example or else.... ;
The way our mind can affect our bodies are only limited by our imagination and level of understanding, the case is different with the body. The body cannot affect the mind the same as the mind can affect the body. As Bastian said one can overload the mind by just making it process junk etc.
Alisima wrote:Anyway, I no longer believe that the mind is seperated from the body. Just like the waves are also not seperated from the ocean. We have been so much identified with our thoughts and ideas that we believe the proces of thinking/analysing to be seperated from our body. But let me remind you of the enormous tasks the mind, perhapse unconscious, handles, which are directly related to the body. Like breathing, or our heartbeat, or digestion. Furthermore, where is our mind?? Where is it's location?? Most westeners believe it to be in their head. While in fact it is everywhere throughout our body, from our big toe to our shoulders. You could actually say that the mind is the higher aspect of the body.
Your mind is yours and not your body's. You need your body so you use your mind to keep it healthy and working. Plus to this the mind and the body belong to different categories as they function in different domains and have different purposes. The close mind-body connection is required by you first for the benefit of your own development.

By taking all that I just said into consideration I conclude that to consider "the mind to be the higher aspect of the body" is nothing more than whishful thinking. The body is the physical interface for the mind as it is for all other spiritual facilities of a human being, which are closely connected and related to the body since they interact with it to fulfill their purposes and functions.

You are the sea, The body is just a temporary wave of your existence during a lifetime.

What are we in the ocean of existence?
The essence of Consciousness, is the ability to Create, Process, Transmit and Receive Information Autonomously.
Bastian
Posts: 225
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:32 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post: # 3837Post Bastian »

trumpet_is_cool wrote:I think if you do fasting, or a deep meditation, you do "seperate" yourself from the physical body a bit, you will seperate completely if you do the fasting so long that you die ;-)
Well there is certainly some truth in that - if you go too far and your body can no longer provide the energy that the brain requires to function then the connection becomes weak. But under normal circumstances this should not occur as your body quickly switches over to metabolising fat and muscle for energy.

Also, I am more in control of my body whilst fasting, as is also the case of when I 'fruit fast'. So from my experience I would argue that the spirit-body connection is in fact more stable whilst fasting. When I eat the wrong foods my head becomes foggy, and my memory and ability to concentrate are both reduced; The reason for this is that the efficiency of the neurons in our brain is very sensitive to certain environmental factors, eg: the way blood sugars fluctuate when eating refined foods. This also occurs due to other factors such as infection, lack of oxygen / excess oxygen, toxins, etc.
"All things derive their life from it [Tao] All things return to it, and it contains them." -- Tao Teh Ching
User avatar
bomohwkl
Posts: 741
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 4:56 pm

Re: Mental and Physical Afflictions?

Post: # 10972Post bomohwkl »

Understand that your creator doesn't want you to have toys and things.The creator doesn't want you to do certain things. The creator wants you to become the person necessary to have and do those things. In other words, your creator wants you to GROW- to continue reach for the stars.
Post Reply