The Shroud of Turin -- a Fake

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Vesko
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The Shroud of Turin -- a Fake

Post: # 2856Post Vesko »

Michel’s book contains the following paragraph:
‘So all his miracles [of Christ] were performed in order to prove that what he preached was true?’
‘Yes, because the Hebrews and the Romans would never believe him if he hadn’t proven himself. There was a very good example of the strength of skepticism among people on Earth regarding the Shroud of Turin. Although millions believe in the coming of Jesus and practice, more or less, Christian religions, they were anxious to hear the results of research by experts, into whether or not the Shroud covered Christ after his ‘death’. You now know the answer to this. However, people seek proof and more proof, and still more proof, for doubt still exists in their minds.
From the way it is written, I conclude that Thao effectively tells Michel that the Shroud of Turin is genuine.

In the year following Michel’s experience, 1988, experts stated, based on results obtained from a Carbon-14 dating test of samples from the shroud, taken in 1978, that the shroud is from medieval times (1260 AD – 1390 AD). In other words, they proved at the time the shroud is a hoax.

In 2002 I’ve been looking up information about the shroud, and I subscribed to an e-mail newsletter about it, prepared and sent by Joe Marino and Sue Benford, two persons who have spent much time finding the truth behind the shroud (no pun intended). Their site is http://newvistas.homestead.com. On 20th this month, I received a letter informing me that a new study has found that the results announced in 1988 are invalid. I post the letter verbatim because it contains instructions how to obtain for free the research paper PDF that all the news are based on, and also for completeness.
Although I no longer send out bulletins, this definitely warrants being an exception!

Below is the text of 1 article and several available links (the text below is from the 1st link). Be sure to check out "Late Breaking News" on http://www.shroud.com/ on Friday, January 21 regarding this. There will be a complementary article by microscopist Dr. John Brown, which further supports Rogers' findings and will include additional previously-unseen microphotographic evidence.

Ray Roger's article is temporarily available free of charge. When the next issue is published, that one is then normally temporarily available free of charge and all of the articles in all previous issues are available at $15 each. I checked the website today and although the new issue is out, the issue with Rogers' article (vol.425), is still the complimentary one. As the free access could disappear at any time, readers are encouraged to get on the site as quickly as possible. Follow these steps:

1.) Go to http://www.sciencedirect.com/
2.) Scroll down about 1/3 of the page and look for the green highlighted area that says "over 1800 titles online..." Right below that is blue text that says "Search for a title." Type in "Thermochimica Acta" in the search box provided and click on the "go" to the right of the box
3.) Click on the "Thermochimica Acta" link.
4.) Vol. 425 is designated with a yellow icon, signifying "complimentary." When you click on it, it will give you a listing of all the articles available. Scroll down until you find the listing for Roger's article (4th entry from the bottom; or use your "Find in top window browser function). There are 3 options: "SummaryPlus," which has the abstract, outline, illustrations and references; "Full text and links," which has the article in standard HTML format, with hot links; and "PDF," which requires an Adobe reader, which can be downloaded free from http://www.adobe.com/
5.) When the article is no longer free and must be purchased for $15, you will receive instructions on how to do that when you click on the "Full text and links" or "PDF" options.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

New Chemical Testing Points to Ancient Origin for Burial Shroud of Jesus
Los Alamos Scientist Proves 1988 Carbon-14 Dating of the Shroud of Turin Used Invalid Rewoven Sample

DALLAS, Jan. 19, 2005 -- The American Shroud of Turin Association for Research (AMSTAR), a scientific organization dedicated to research on the enigmatic Shroud of Turin, thought by many to be the burial cloth of the crucified Jesus of Nazareth, announced today that the 1988 Carbon-14 test was not done on the original burial cloth, but rather on a rewoven shroud patch creating an erroneous date for the actual age of the Shroud.

The Shroud of Turin is a large piece of linen cloth that shows the faint full-body image of a blood-covered man on its surface. Because many believe it to be the burial cloth of Jesus, researchers have tried to determine its origin though numerous modern scientific methods, including Carbon-14 tests done at three radiocarbon labs which set the age of the artifact at between AD 1260 and 1390.

"Now conclusive evidence, gathered over the past two years, proves that the sample used to date the Shroud was actually taken from an expertly-done rewoven patch," says AMSTAR President, Tom D'Muhala. "Chemical testing indicates that the linen Shroud is actually very old - much older than the published 1988 radiocarbon date."

"As unlikely as it seems, the sample used to test the age of the Shroud of Turin in 1988 was taken from a rewoven area of the Shroud," reports chemist Raymond Rogers, a fellow of the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. Rogers' new findings are published in the current issue of Thermochimica Acta, a chemistry peer reviewed scientific journal.

"Pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry results from the sample area coupled with microscopic and microchemical observations prove that the radiocarbon sample was not part of the original cloth of the Shroud of Turin which is currently housed at The Turin Cathedral in Italy," says Rogers.

"The radiocarbon sample has completely different chemical properties than the main part of the shroud relic," explains Rogers. "The sample tested was dyed using technology that began to appear in Italy about the time the Crusaders' last bastion fell to the Mameluke Turks in AD 1291. The radiocarbon sample cannot be older than about AD 1290, agreeing with the age determined in 1988. However, the Shroud itself is actually much older."

Rogers' new research clearly disproves the 1988 findings announced by British Museum spokesperson, Mike Tite, when he declared that the Shroud was of medieval origin and probably "a hoax." The British Museum coordinated the 1988 radiocarbon tests and acted as the official clearing house for all findings.

Almost immediately, Shroud analysts questioned the validity of the sample used for radiocarbon dating. Researchers using high-resolution photographs of the Shroud found indications of an "invisible" reweave in the area used for testing. However, belief tilted strongly toward the more "scientific" method of radiocarbon dating. Rogers' recent analysis of an authentic sample taken from the radiocarbon sample proves that the researchers were right to question the 1988 results.

As a result of his own research and chemical tests, Rogers concluded that the radiocarbon sample was cut from a medieval patch, and is totally different in composition from the main part of the Shroud of Turin.

Contact:
Michael Minor
(972) 932-5141

http://www.ereleases.com/pr/20050119008.html

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=34747

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050119/phw016_1.html
Here is one more news announcement: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/di ... urin_x.htm
(Link courtesy of Slashdot.com).

To obtain the paper and learn the details, either follow the instructions above or follow the link http://www.shroud.it/ROGERS-3.PDF. The link is published on ??rino & Benford's site and may be temporary. If you wish to keep the document, save it now. Here is the abstract:
"Studies on the Radiocarbon Sample from the Shroud of Turin" by Raymond N. Rogers, 2004.
Los Alamos National Laboratory, University of California

ABSTRACT

In 1998, radiocarbon laboratories at Arizona, Cambridge, and Zurich determined the age of a sample from the Shroud of Turin. They reported that the date of the cloth's production lay between A.D. 1260 and 1390 with 95% confidence. This came as a surprise in view of the technology used to produce the cloth, its chemical composition, and the lack of vanillin in its lignin. The results prompted questions about the validity of the sample. Preliminary estimates of the kinetics constants for the loss of vanillin from lignin indicate a much older age for the cloth than the radiocarbon analyses. The radiocarbon sampling area is uniquely coated with a yellow-bron plant gum containing dye lakes. Pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry results from the sample area coupled with microscopic and microchemical observations prove that the radiocarbon sample was not part of the original cloth of the Shroud of Turin. The radiocarbon date was thus not valid for determining the true age of the shroud.
For better images of the shroud and reconstructions of the body and face of Christ, see
http://www.shroud2000.com/ImageGallery/ ... -Menu.html, particularly http://www.shroud2000.com/ImageGallery/Set2/028_28.jpg and http://www.shroud2000.com/ImageGallery/Set1/205_5.jpg. I am sure you wouldn't want to miss the latter image -- it's a facial portrait of Jesus Christ as per the shroud.

In some of the images, you will notice the similarity between the facial and bodily features on the shroud, and the book illustration of Jesus Christ.

For more information about the shroud and some more images, you might want to read http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_2.htm. The page has not been updated yet with this most recent finding.
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Vesko
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Post: # 2869Post Vesko »

I have the following information courtesy of Michael Meanwell:
The last time I spoke to Michel, I had a series of questions - issues that had plagued me for some time. Among these was "Is the Shroud real or a fake?". Because, as you know, it's unclear from his exchange with Thao.

Michel said that it's definitely a fake.

Sorry to disappoint. As you know, scientifiic 'facts' are never set in stone - they are often refuted by new scientific data and so on - no doubt this new opinion will be challenged in the future.
After I insisted that the exchange with Thao actually seems (well, only seems) to confirm that it's not a fake, and asking if I am only imagining that the illustration of Christ for the book resembles the reconstruction from the shroud, and whether Michel could have accidentally given the reverse (wrong) answer, here's the follow-up:
I have to admit - the question about the Shroud has plagued me for a long time - I read a couple of books about it when I was young and always kept up with the latest developments or discussions. As for Michel's response - it was very clear "It is a fake." I have that final conversation recorded as well. There was no possibility of misunderstanding him or him giving me a reverse answer. Admittedly - it was a simple question and a simple response - we did not discuss it at length.
I agree with you - when I re-read the Shroud discussion, Thao's words infer that it is real. But, if you consider that the Shoud is a fake and then re-read the words, her points about faith and proof make sense in this light as well.
As for the Jesus Christ depiction - I must admit, I never considered this in relation to the Shroud. It never occurred to me. I immediately saw this as Christ suspended, as Michel describes, in the Golden Doco.
Well, that's it for now!
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Robanan
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Post: # 2892Post Robanan »

The illustration of the Christ for the book did not depict Christ as having a beard.
1- Nor having bruises or wounds from a crown of thorns as tried to be shown at http://www.shroud2000.com/ImageGallery/Set1/129_29.jpg

2-And it also doesn't show any scourge marks or burns as suggested at http://www.shroud2000.com/ImageGallery/Set2/107_7.jpg
http://www.shroud2000.com/ImageGallery/Set1/116_16.jpg

3-Finally it does not show so many wounds similar to the ones on this picture.

4-The Christ looks much much younger in the illustration for the book than in any of the pictures at http://www.shroud2000.com/ImageGallery/ ... -Menu.html

I doubt that the Christ was tortured savagely before his crucifixion.
I think that Michel should have noticed point 1 and 3 of the above for sure.
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Aisin
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Post: # 2893Post Aisin »

Robanan wrote:I doubt that the Christ was tortured savagely before his crucifixion.
interesting food for thoughts. we don't know for sure. but the possibility suggested above, may lead us to infer that more brutality was portrayed or added on, to provide contrast for the 'sacrifice' story which many organizations preach... how facts are twisted by human words...

and the movie 'the passion of the christ' doesn't help either.
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Post: # 2897Post Kestrel »

I have not totally read veskos post however I will when I get the time.

Aisin, the thing that gets me is people who use the tourturing of christ. Not to downplay all the pain and suffreing tourture is, what about all the Jewish individuals in concentration camps? Plenty of them got to suffer, plenty of them got to know what it was to be a science experiment a mere specemine to study for nazi scientist.

What about all the other genocides in history, its not always line up and shoot, often theres lots of tourture and ect for certin individauls. What about people today, even here in my own country who suffer from violent crimes. Example, a man getting stabbed 22 times and still surviving, being left for dead. I am thinking of no specific actual event, however I am confident 100% I could find a news clip about something similar. That sounds like tourture to me.

So the next time somone preaches, yells to you about the terrible tourturing death, just consider that.

Meh I hate being off topic.
‘And there we are. When you push away your neighbours, your son or your daughter - if you aren’t always ready to help even those whom you don’t like, you contribute to the disintegration of your civilisation. And this is what is happening on Earth more and more, through hate and violence."
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Vesko
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Post: # 2901Post Vesko »

Michael Meanwell said:
But, if you consider that the Shoud is a fake and then re-read the words, her points about faith and proof make sense in this light as well.
Indeed. From the paragraph following the one that mentioned the shroud, namely
'When you return to Earth and tell your story, the first thing you will be asked is for evidence. If we were to give you, for example, a piece of metal which doesn't exist on Earth, there would always be one, among the experts who analyze it, who would insist that you prove the metal was not created by a clever alchemist of your acquaintance - or some such thing.'
'Will you give me something as proof?'
'Michel, don't disappoint me. You will have no material proof, for precisely the reasons I have just outlined - there would be no point.'
I hadn't realized that the shroud also constitutes material proof.

Anyway, we have a direct answer now, too. Thank you both, Michel and Michael!!!
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Vesko
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Post: # 3839Post Vesko »

Today's news:

"Turin Shroud 'confirmed as fake'"
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15 ... 01,00.html
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Post: # 3841Post Robanan »

We as the people of the planet earth seem to be very famous throughout the galaxy because of our skepticism. Muslims say that those who were the true prophets of God could perform miracles, clearly Mohammed was the one who was supposed to make it clear to the people of our planet that we are not to witness any miracles from anyone anymore. I think this is why the muslims say that mohammed was the last prophet who brought the most complete religion.

I don't know why exactly I said this, probably because I feel it is time for us to experience the consequences of the attitude of seeking poof and evidence instead of learning to develop spiritually on our own.

The Thiaooubans are smart!
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