Catholic Church Modifications of the Bible

A place to discuss matters of bygone times that are forgotten, but are recovered so that humanity is no longer condemned to repeat history as it so often does.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

Catholic Church Modifications of the Bible

Post: # 2920Post Zark »

From Thiaoouba Prophecy p133
"‘However, I must assure you that the (original)2 Bible is not the product of the scribes’ imagination - nor is it embellished. There was much truth in it. I say ‘was’ because in the various councils of the Roman Catholic Church, the Bible has been greatly revised, for reasons which are clear: to serve the needs of Christianity. This is why I said yesterday, that religions are one of the curses of Earth. (..)"
One instance of this is The Council Of Laodicea :
from: http://reluctant-messenger.com/council-of-laodicea.htm
Books banned by the Council of Laodicea
Barnabas [ed: also known as: Epistle of Barnabas]
I Clement
II Clement
Christ and Abgarus
The Apostles' Creed
I Hermas-Visions [ed: also known as: The Shepherd of Hermas (First Book)]
II Hermas-Commands [ed: also known as: The Shepherd of Hermas (Second Book)]
III Hermas-Similitudes [ed: also known as: The Shepherd of Hermas (Third Book)]
Ephesians
I Infancy
II Infancy
Mary
Magnesians
Nicodemus
Paul and Seneca
Paul and Thecla
Philippians
Philadelphians
Polycarp
Romans
Trallians
Letters of Herod and Pilate
The First Book of Adam and Eve
The Second Book of Adam and Eve
The Secrets of Enoch
The Psalms of Solomon
The Odes of Solomon
The Fourth Book of Maccabees
The Story of Ahikar
The Testament of Reuben
Asher
Joseph
Simeon
Levi
Judah
Issachar
Zebulum
Dan
Naphtali
Gad
Benjamin
(Source: The Lost Books of the Bible and the Forgotten Books of Eden.
Published by World Bible Publishers, Inc 1926)
* For more info: The Council Of Laodicea In Phrygia Pacatiana 364 A.D.
A listing of all the Canons that were established in the Council Of Laodicea is available
http://reluctant-messenger.com/council-of-laodicea.htm

* A big library of old christian writings, including those removed from the bible
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
Vesko
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:13 pm

Post: # 2928Post Vesko »

Zark, I didn't know so many were removed, and by a single council! This comes to me as a big surprise. Thank you!

There's also this clarification in the book on page 135:
The only times this distortion was purposely done, and for very specific reasons, as I have said, was by the Roman Church during the councils of Nicein AD 325, Constantinople in AD 381, Ephese in AD 431 and Chalcedome in AD 451. There were others too, but of lesser significance.
So, the council of Laodicea is of lesser significance, and yet so many things were removed -- then we can imagine what the significant revisionist councils did to the original Bible :(. Those revisions alone are equivalent to perpetrating all the other horrible crimes through history!
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

Post: # 2929Post Zark »

Vesko wrote:So, the council of Laodicea is of lesser significance, and yet so many things were removed -- then we can imagine what the significant revisionist councils did to the original Bible :(. Those revisions alone are equivalent to perpetrating all the other horrible crimes through history!
From what I have read the Council of Laodicea didn't necessarily modify individual books, but rather banned them. So in that way this particular ruling may have had the most effect - ie: that important knowledge was severely restricted rather than being corrupted. I find the most blatant corruption by the Council of Laodicea was that they perverted the Law which was given to Moses in regards to the Sabbath.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
Vesko
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:13 pm

Post: # 2931Post Vesko »

How did they pervert it, Zark?
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
Kestrel
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 1:11 am
Location: United States, Earth
Contact:

Post: # 2939Post Kestrel »

Most intresting Zark. .

Concerning too.
‘And there we are. When you push away your neighbours, your son or your daughter - if you aren’t always ready to help even those whom you don’t like, you contribute to the disintegration of your civilisation. And this is what is happening on Earth more and more, through hate and violence."
Thao
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

Post: # 3056Post Zark »

Vesko wrote:How did they pervert it, Zark?
Keeping the sabbath was one of the Ten commandments, but the Council of Laodicea forcibly outlawed people from obeying this law. How can they tell people they must disobey one of the commandments and yet respect the other Nine commandments - crazy. And it happened because of hatred towards the Jews, a hatred which continues to this day.
from The Council of Laodicea
CANON XXIX: "CHRISTIANS must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day .."
Or to put that in plain english, the Council of Laodicea said: "Christians must not be like jewish people by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day..."
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

Post: # 5996Post Zark »

Many of the old Hebrew books are also left out of the Bible. The reason for this is, as with the New Testament, that those who chose the canon of books most likely were not sure about the authenticity of the writings. One of the criteria used, I am told, was that if Jesus quoted from a particular book then it implied an endorsement of that book.

Some of the Deuterocanon listed in the website below appear to be missing from the bible. Also everything after the heading "Pseudepigrapha" is (as far as I know) missing from the bible.

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
User avatar
shezmear
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:48 pm

Post: # 5999Post shezmear »

Hi Zark

Did you happen to see the documentary on TV about this topic by any chance about 2 to 3 weeks ago?
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

Post: # 6000Post Zark »

shezmear wrote:Did you happen to see the documentary on TV about this topic by any chance about 2 to 3 weeks ago?
[scratching my head] hmm.. I think I saw something about Paul.. and nothing else I can recall. What did I miss?
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

Post: # 6001Post Zark »

I found a text that talks briefly about how those people chose the canon of accepted scriptures way back in the beginnings of the Catholic Church.

Title: Pseudepigrapha: An account of certain apocryphal sacred writings of the Jews and early Christians. By: Deane, William John (1823-1895)
About the book of Enoch: "Clement of Alexandria 68 regards it with a certain respect while denying its inspiration. 'I must confess,' says St. Augustine, 69 'that some things of Divine character were written by Enoch, the seventh from Adam, since this is testified by the Apostle Jude in his canonical Epistle; but they are deservedly excluded from the Jewish Scriptures, because they lack authority and cannot be proved genuine.'"
from: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/deane/pseudepig.vi.i.html

At least I can say that a few early Christians had a cautious respect for these non-canonical books (AKA 'apocryphal books'. Which means those books which are of unknown authenticity).

These days Christians have the belief that God must have wanted to protect his writing and therefore we can all be certain that God must have influenced the Catholic Church and King James translators to choose the right books for inclusion in their canon of accepted texts. I know this is wrong and I would love to spend some time dismantling these naive beliefs .. this wishful thinking. Modern Christians treat the idea of God like a kind of Santa Clause (I know, I have been to these churches).
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

Is the Bible perfect?

Post: # 6004Post Zark »

From my experience the average modern Christian believes:
* That God wrote every word in the Bible.
* God put the Bible together.
* If it isn't in the Bible then it isn't written by God, therefore all the Apocryphal books must be forgeries. (eg: Book of Enoch, Shepherd of Hermas, etc).

If God has personally written and perfectly preserved his books then why.. :
* Why don't we have the original texts.. the ones the apostles wrote
* Why are there quotes in the bible that reference books that either no longer exist or are not in the Bible (eg: Book of Enoch is quoted in Jude).
* Why are the names in the New Testament so messed up. (eg: James is really Yacob, John is really Yohanna, Iasus / Jesus is really Yeshu or Yeshua, etc.)
* Why is Mark's grammar poor? Surely if God is dictating the book to Mark word for word and letter by letter then Mark's writing would be free of grammatical errors.
* and so on..

I have read quite a bit of the bible and am quite convinced that much of it is accurate. I just don't believe that the writers are infallible. God isn't dictating every word they write.. the writers have free will.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
User avatar
shezmear
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:48 pm

Post: # 6015Post shezmear »

O.k., I did not take great notice as I new all this from reading other books, but in short, This English gentleman, traveled around and tried to find out actually who wrote the bible, he was not anti bible or pro bible, the more he dug the more he found, example, the bible is just some of the actual story’s of by some people at that time, in that other accounts were actually left out, he showed up that there was serious tampering on behalf of the church to the book it self.

So what you have is a book that was put together and left out other points of view, tampered with, and sold as the “word of god”.

When he confronted the leaders of the church and several of powerful people in this grand cult, it was interesting to watch how they handled these truths, they know, and this is the funny thing.

Religions at the top are held together by people who understand that they are brain washing people, maybe at the bottom you have all the believers but the guys at the top, are living the high life and loving it.

And also, when he asked about these anomalies in the book, there response told me that they were not really interested in the truth, in fact they all had there own mantra, to the point were in the end, I sort of felt well what is the point, you know, it they want to stand for that then left them.

There is a book I read called “reincarnation the phoenix and the fire mystery” big red book like 600 pages just about man’s history with the concept of reincarnation.

Anyway it goes on to show how and say openly, if people claim to follow the teachings of Christ they are actually more buddhist then so called Christian, if they follow Christ and what he said, then they are subscribing to reincarnation because this is what he said, this is what he was about.


It has bucketloads of information about various teaching from various places but it also tells of the Church’s systematic suppression of the original teachings of Christ, example in the early 13 century the Catha’s who believe in reincarnation flourished in Italy and France were massacred according to the records half a million people, after the pope at the time launched a crusade to stop the heresy, whole villages were wiped out.
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

bible and reincarnation / rebirth / resurrection

Post: # 6019Post Zark »

shezmear wrote:There is a book I read called “reincarnation the phoenix and the fire mystery” big red book like 600 pages just about man’s history with the concept of reincarnation.
[...]
It has bucketloads of information about various teaching from various places but it also tells of the Church’s systematic suppression of the original teachings of Christ, example in the early 13 century the Catha’s who believe in reincarnation flourished in Italy and France were massacred according to the records half a million people, after the pope at the time launched a crusade to stop the heresy, whole villages were wiped out.
Wow sounds like a very interesting book! Actually there was some talk about reincarnation in christianity in the following threads:
* Bible: Did Jesus Teach About Reincarnation?
http://www.goldenplanetforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=447

* Michel's Book and Ancient Texts
http://www.goldenplanetforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=3

One of the problems for Christians who hear about reincarnation was that they have old Jewish / Christian writings and traditions that taught them that resurrection was a one time only thing.. and also they don't understand how we can be reborn as babies, nor understand why we would have no memory of our former lives.

The general belief is that we are resurrected into full grown bodies, some even believe we have the same body / appearance as before. However I think there are two or three places in the bible where people are talked about as becoming young children.. these verses of course are believed to be a metaphor. One or more verses are in the gospels and I think there was something in Isaiah.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
User avatar
shezmear
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:48 pm

Post: # 6020Post shezmear »

yes it does make reference in the bible to reincarnation if you know how to read between the lines, although given that it is open to interpretation, that really makes it problematic for the believers.
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
User avatar
Zark
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:21 am
Contact:

Bible symbology / metaphor

Post: # 6023Post Zark »

shezmear wrote:yes it does make reference in the bible to reincarnation if you know how to read between the lines
Yeah reading between the lines is so very important. If a person is not ready for the real meaning then they will not understand. It is part of the nature of the metaphor and symbology of the bible. One good example of this is the parable of the seed, but also for bible prophecies in general.

=== Symbology + The Parable Of The Leaven ===
For instance there is a very short parable "The Parable Of The Leaven" in Mt 13:33 : "Another parable He spoke to them: 'The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal till it was all leavened.'". Most will just read it and go 'huh' and then just keep reading and forget about it. I did. It takes quite a bit of effort to get to the real meaning. To understand the parable you need to know the meaning of three things a) the woman, b) the leaven, and c) the meal (wheat flour). All three meanings are spelled out elsewhere in the bible... hiding them like this encourages people to search and learn for themselves.

One thing that happens for people who do not wish to hear the real meaning is that they try to twist the meaning into something else. They don't want to hear what it says, so they change it into what they want it to say. In "The Parable Of The Leaven" the symbols are very simple and are used in the bible in a consistent manner and this is important as it is an indicator of authenticity. But the true meaning of this parable is that a religious group (woman) has mixed bad teachings (leaven) in with the good teachings (meal/wheat) such that the whole lot has become well and truly leavened (turned bad).

What religious group wants to believe that their teachings have been corrupted? It is so very deeply contrary to what they want to believe.. so they work hard at trying to change the meaning into something else - even if that requires that they invent new symobols that have never before been used in the bible, as can be seen here: http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/pa/pa_06.htm
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. -- Douglas Adams
Post Reply