Hydrogen Technology

Discussion on preserving Nature: preventing the pollution, destruction and disbalancing of the finely-tuned natural ecosystems on our planet.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Alisima
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post: # 3872Post Alisima »

That is good. The only problem is, where can I find a hydrogen tank station??

I hope that the hydrogen tank station isn't far from being constructed. At least every 100 miles, since that is the current range of the motorcycle. I can only guess the final costs of building so many hydrogen stations, but I imagine it to be quite expensive.
Don't read my signature.
Vesko
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:13 pm

Post: # 3873Post Vesko »

I didn't realize that the hydrogen engine is also going to solve the noise problem -- a grave danger to the electronic astral body -- as well!
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
User avatar
trumpet_is_cool
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:59 pm
Location: Germany

Post: # 3877Post trumpet_is_cool »

I don`t think that bikers will be excited about "noiseless" bikes...
Also...From where does the Hydrogen come from ? You must first put in Energy to produce it and i doub`t that solar or windpower will be used for this...Hydrogen can only be a crutch...
User avatar
Alisima
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 2:01 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Post: # 3878Post Alisima »

Well, perhapse we can finally create a good zero-point-energy device, and tap the energy out of the aether.

Or perhapse nuclear fusion??

Our last resort would always be nuclear energy, although I doubt we'll find a solution to the nuclear waste problem.

Anyhow, it is always better than fossil fuel.
Don't read my signature.
Vesko
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:13 pm

Post: # 3879Post Vesko »

tumpet_is_cool wrote:I don`t think that bikers will be excited about "noiseless" bikes...
That is one of the first thoughts I had, too. A lot of people I've seen show off through disturbing others with the noise from the motor.
trumpet_is_cool wrote:I don`t think that bikers will be excited about "noiseless" bikes...
Also...From where does the Hydrogen come from ? You must first put in Energy to produce it and i doub`t that solar or windpower will be used for this...Hydrogen can only be a crutch...
I wouldn't dismiss it offhand. It only suffices for the production cost to be almost as cheap as that of petrol, for it to become feasible. Iceland, by virtue of its geographic location, has geothermal power, so they currently run public transport busses with hydrogen engines in Reykjavik, as a previous forum post informs. While the conditions there are special, there exist several additional far more universally applicable methods currently in development. From http://www.nrel.gov/hydrogen/proj_produ ... ivery.html:
Certain photosynthetic microbes produce hydrogen from water in their metabolic activities using light energy. Photobiological technology holds great promise, but because oxygen is produced along with the hydrogen, the technology must overcome the limitation of oxygen sensitivity of the hydrogen-evolving enzyme systems. Researchers are addressing this issue by screening for naturally occurring organisms that are more tolerant of oxygen, and by creating new genetic forms of the organisms that can sustain hydrogen production in the presence of oxygen. A new system is also being developed that uses a metabolic switch (sulfur deprivation) to cycle algal cells between a photosynthetic growth phase and a hydrogen production phase.
This is one of the techniques, named biological water splitting -- the page lists and explains others -- photoelectrochemical water splitting, reforming of biomass and wastes, solar thermal water splitting, renewable electrolysis. The site says those are the 5 major categories of research and development in the field. Perhaps there are / will be others, too.
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
User avatar
InfoSource
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:14 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Post: # 3898Post InfoSource »

The First hydrogen plane tested in the US:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4643575.stm

Well we now have hydrogen based cars, buses, motorcycles, and planes that are either available to a degree or in the works

The next step is hydrogen-based boats (or are there some available already?)
Vesko
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:13 pm

Post: # 3900Post Vesko »

The following from the article is strange to me:
But the advantages of hydrogen power have not been established definitively. Fuel cells produce water vapour, which is itself a greenhouse gas.

Released several kilometres up in the atmosphere, it is not clear how the global warming impact from this technology would compare with emissions from conventional engines.

As the fuel cell aircraft becomes a reality, practical research to answer this question will become more feasible.
considering the following I have come across:

http://www.virtualtechnologiesltd.com/F ... logies.htm:
Fuel cells produce electricity through reverse electrolysis, an electrochemical reaction. This combines hydrogen and oxygen to form water vapor, heat and electricity. These byproducts can be re-utilized by the fuel cell system. The heat can be used for space heating. Water vapor may be captured and used as re- supply for additional hydrogen. The electricity is directed to an external circuit, where it is used as needed.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4037024.html reveals a patent filed in 1973 (!). The abstract is:
A product-water management system removes steam produced by the reaction of [h]ydrogen and oxygen in a fuel cell, by circulating a hydrogen stream, containing the steam, from the fuel cell to a condenser where the water is liquified and collected in a sump. A continuously operating pump forces water and/or hydrogen from the sump through a transfer line to a water storage tank. Hydrogen is vented back to the condenser from the storage tank through a vent line concentrically mounted within the transfer line. A tank drain on the storage tank allows hydrogen to be purged between missions.
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
survivor
Posts: 288
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:32 am
Location: melbourne, Australia

Post: # 5650Post survivor »

Hydrogen, All talk and No WALK

Apparently the 'Governator' of L.A has accepted to trial Hydrogen vehicles with some pump stations gathered around L.A, sorry this is brief, but I cannot remember where I read this. try / http://www.schwarzenegger.com

-Also, Australia has at least five big plantations that are producing Bio-diesel from used oil (canola) obtained from fish'n'chip shops. (China are the biggest importers of this used oil)

-Honda keep teasing us with an Ad that has a hydrogen car, nothing else mentioned.

-Recently on an Australian show named "The New Inventors" someone has a new engine which runs on compressed air. http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1072065.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1160726.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/newinventors/txt/s1201795.htm



***Beyond tomorrow ch7 7.30pm edit: (don't worry, it's a replay)
..there is a little car they will review that runs on compressed air. http://www.theaircar.com
joaopaulo20002001
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:05 am
Location: ireland
Contact:

Switch To Hydrogen!

Post: # 7076Post joaopaulo20002001 »

HI all im new to this forum I'v read the book it was real eye opener.
cooll link so check it out it development of Fuel System Kit converts your existing vehicle to run on Hydrogen. http://www.switch2hydrogen.com/
Vesko
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:13 pm

Post: # 7077Post Vesko »

Welcome to the forum! Thank you for the link, let's hope something good comes out of this development in the end.
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
User avatar
Robanan
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:27 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: Hydrogen Technology

Post: # 10565Post Robanan »

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hype_about_Hydrogen about the book named "The Hype about Hydrogen" Author Joseph J. Romm (Publisher Island Press, Publication date 2004, ISBN 1-55963-703-X, ISBN 1-55963-704-8)
The Hype about Hydrogen contends that global warming and U.S. reliance on foreign fuel imports cannot be solved by the hypothetical hydrogen economy that has been advanced as a possible solution to these problems, and that "neither government policy nor business investment should be based on the belief that hydrogen cars will have meaningful commercial success in the near or medium term."

The book explains how fuel cells work and compares different types. It then reviews the difficulties in marketing fuel cells for applications other than transportation and argues that these are in fact easier and more likely to happen soon than transportation applications.

The history of hydrogen and its methods of production are then described. The book claims that the most common and cost-effective method of hydrogen production is from natural gas, which emits large amounts of CO2 (a greenhouse gas), since it would require too much electric power to produce hydrogen using the electrolysis method. The monetary costs of hydrogen fueling infrastructure for the U.S. are then estimated at half a trillion U.S. dollars, and the book describes additional energy and environment costs to liquefy and compress hydrogen for use in fueling stations.

The book goes on to discuss the hypothetical evolution of the cost of vehicles with fuel cells and with hydrogen-powered internal combustion engines, as well as possible adoption strategies. It then reviews the issue of the greenhouse effect and offers four reasons why hydrogen would not be useful in reducing greenhouse gas emissions:

* Internal combustion engines continue to improve in efficiency.
* Since hydrogen is likely to be made from combustion of fossil fuels, it produces less CO2 and other greenhouse gases to burn the fossil fuel directly.
* Fuel cells are likely to be much more expensive than competing technologies.
* Fuels used to make hydrogen could achieve larger reductions in greenhouse gas emissions if used to replace the least efficient of the electric power plants.

The book then describes pilot projects in Iceland and California.

In its conclusion, the book states that hydrogen will not be widely available as a transportation fuel for a long time, and describes other strategies, including energy conservation techniques, to combat global warming.
In response to the book above I would like to quote the article and study of Professor Jill Granger and Tom J. Chalko from his forum of discussion, on the same issues presented.
I would like to underline the following facts:
Professor Jill Granger wrote:The simple statement that water is made from hydrogen and oxygen doesn't give us a very clear picture of what really goes into the creation of a molecule of water. A quick look at the chemical equation for the formation of water tells us more.

2H2 + O2 = 2H2O

It takes two molecules of the diatomic hydrogen gas, combined with one molecule of the diatomic oxygen gas to produce two molecules of water. In other words the ratio of hydrogen to oxygen is 2:1, the ratio of hydrogen to water is 1:1, and the ratio of oxygen to water is 1:2.
and Tom says:
UV light from the Sun splits water 2h2o into h2o2 and free hydrohen h2. It happens in the oceans/waterways as well as in the moisture in the air.

This process is responsible for the presence of free oxygen in the oceans for all underwater creatures to use (h2o2 disintegrates into h2o and oxygen) and the presence of free hydrogen in our atmosphere.


To further elaborate on this would require more expert effort, but the idea behind this post is to inform you that hydrogen can never lose it's credibility as a possible option toward solving the problems we have ahead of us in the coming years, no matter how we like to present excuses that "our knowledge of the field is limited" or write whole book just to say "I don't know". We just have to look for better ways to improve our understanding of this trend of technology that supports nature so intimately. Do not listen to excuses of the establishment that are made to support confusion and promote ignorance. Feel free to add any related studying material that you can find regarding technologies and methods of producing hydrogen fuel from water using UV light. Indepth expert discussions about the process itself are also welcome.
The essence of Consciousness, is the ability to Create, Process, Transmit and Receive Information Autonomously.
Post Reply