"Material" Evidence for the Existence of the Soul

[bomohwkl]

Have you come across "material" evidence of the existence of soul? The evidence should be able to convince those hard-core skeptics?

[Meedan]

I've not seen any material evidence for it. Don't forget that we should also try to be 'hard-core' sceptics, or as sceptical as we can be.

For example, starting this week, I decided to remove from my mind all previous beliefs, theories and opinions about life, the book, TFOC, God, and aiming to re-read the arguments, staying as objective and critical as I can. If my previous opinions were correct, then I should come to the same conclusions again. We'll see...

So far it seems very enlightening, I recommend everyone try this.

[bomohwkl]

. K.Korotkov. “Light After Life”. , 1998 NY. Backbone Publishing Company (In English) Experiments and ideas on after-death changes of Kirlian pictures.
The book seems to be the best book for skeptic. Of course, if they really seek.

[Rezo]

im not sure if this is for real or not [im betting its not] but there is a website called worlditc.org. They supposedly communicate with the dead and get audio or audio and video from dead people.

of course its probably very hard to swallow because anything with technology can be contested. There is also a very interesting man who said he could be against a white background and concentrate, and when a photo was taken you would see these places he never went to or something of this nature.

any physical evidence though, to be seriously researched, I would guess would have to be focused on the auric changes as electrons and/or thouht are measured.

The question is, how to measure astral electrons with atoms??

measuring the various levels in the amygdala might tell us what is going on. I dont think we can ever know exactly what someone is experiencing in another state, though, because each connection to the divine is private. [even though down here its in groups of nine].

[Lena]

there is, in fact, material evidence. when a person dies they immediately lose about 8 ounces (I think thats the correct amount, but I'm not sure). we know this because the beds in hospitals say how much weight is in the bed. so, i guess all the non physical bodies combined weigh 8 ounces. that would make sence since they're made of electrons, right? electrons weigh almost nothing.

I think I read about this in Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics but I'm not sure. I can't remember where I get information from anymore

[Vesko]

You have certainly read about that in Robert Bruce's works. I think 8 ounces is too much weight. There is the following statement in his "Treatise on Astral Projection", volume 2, part 2 (http://www.astraldynamics.com/download/Treatise.pdf):

Dying people in hospitals have had their beds placed on delicate scales shortly before death and hooked up to EEG and ECG monitors. In all cases, at the exact moment of death, a sudden weight loss of approximately one quarter of an ounce is observed.

I couldn't find the same or similar in "Astral Dynamics".

Something else: the book does not say that other non-physical bodies, except the astral one, are made of electrons. Nor it says that the former separate at death. Perhaps there is no need to, because the astral body is self-sufficient (plus it is going to re-attach to the Higher Self after a short while), and they disintegrate in close proximity to and together with the physical one.

[bomohwkl]

Dying people in hospitals have had their beds placed on delicate scales shortly before death and hooked up to EEG and ECG monitors. In all cases, at the exact moment of death, a sudden weight loss of approximately one quarter of an ounce is observed

I wonder why it is not reported in a scientific journal.

[Lena]

You have certainly read about that in Robert Bruce's works. I think 8 ounces is too much weight. There is the following statement in his "Treatise on Astral Projection", volume 2, part 2 (http://www.astraldynamics.com/download/Treatise.pdf):

Dying people in hospitals have had their beds placed on delicate scales shortly before death and hooked up to EEG and ECG monitors. In all cases, at the exact moment of death, a sudden weight loss of approximately one quarter of an ounce is observed.

I couldn't find the same or similar in "Astral Dynamics".

Something else: the book does not say that other non-physical bodies, except the astral one, are made of electrons. Nor it says that the former separate at death. Perhaps there is no need to, because the astral body is self-sufficient (plus it is going to re-attach to the Higher Self after a short while), and they disintegrate in close proximity to and together with the physical one.

yes, thanks for clearing that up. Like I said, I wasn't sure, but you know what I'm talking about. I remember reading Treatise on Astral Projection online a while back. I don't know where I got "8 ounces" from...

I wonder why it is not reported in a scientific journal.

I don't know. same reason I guess why I've never met anyone who has heard of Thiaoouba Prophecy before.

[Robanan]

There was a program on the TV today here in Ukraine, it was titled "Life after death" it was a documentary about the existance of the sould and what happens after death. They showed Prof. Korotkov and his camera he showed that the aura changes dramatically by the third day after clinical death. Many many arguments were raisen during the whole program and scientific experiments were shown, most of which really hinted that the body is not alone. In the end a skeptic was interviewed with the emphasis to show that no matter how much evidence and hints you provide some people are simply too stubborn to accept the truth.

[Bastian]

I wonder why it is not reported in a scientific journal.

Well .. even *supposing* it were true that hospital scales have recorded such changes in weight, I do not believe any 'self respecting' scientific journal would publish such data. People associated with research of that nature become the subject of ridicule.

Also, scientific journals are subject to a peer review process that has a tendency to filter out information that is controversial, or conflicts with the existing paradigm of the reviewer.

I am hopeful that their are some scientific journals that are both open minded to new paradigms / ideas and still cautious enough to filter out false information.

[Rezo]

Very interesting..

The next step would be to figure out where the sudden loss in weight comes from, and how sudden it actually is [to rule out physiological explanations]...it would be very important to make sure any 'physical' evidence cannot be simply explained away as strictly a physiological process.

[Rezo]

I would also like to know if the program in ukraine w/prof korotkov is viewable, although its probably only in russian language. I can read it but only veeeery slooowly!

[Robanan]

1- http://www.kirlian.org/kirlian/korotov/korotkov.htm
Scroll down to "Experimental investigations of a human body Energy-and-Information activity after death"

On the basis of these results we conclude that energy-information does not comes to zero at clinical death. In some cases it continues to be present even as much as 4 days after death - a time when all biochemical processes characteristic of life will have ceased and been replaced with autolytic and putrefactive processes. It was particularly significant that course of decline in energy-information depended on the cause and nature of death. These few results need to be confirmed and extended. Naturally, we see a large amount of work ahead. In some years these experiments had been reproduced both in our laboratory, and in some others. The result was in principle the same.

it seems to me that the notion of "zero down" is when the aura completely fades out.

2- http://www.kirlian.org/gdvresearch/korotkov/index1.html
3- I also came up with http://www.triune-being.com/Data/Korotk ... ntNews.htm
4- This site is filtered out from Iran and I can't view the page http://www.mefeedia.com/tags/dr._konstantin_korotkov

in short just google: Korotkov Life after death

[Matt]

Actually, the soul-weighing-21-grams-theory was published in scientific journals. Dr. Duncan MacDougall in the very early 1900's measured the weights before and after the death of 6 patients - only 2 of them showed a difference of about 15 grams. Keep in the mind, the scales used to weigh things back then were done by hand and only accurate to the ounce(about 30 grams)... The results were never reproduced in subsequent studies.