Is Competition Good?

[bomohwkl]

Do you think competition is good to one's self progress and/or one's spiritual development? Is competition always good? To what extent it is good/bad? More importantly, what can we learn from a competition?

Opinions welcome.

[Lena]

I think competition is a primal instinct because I used to be very competitive when I was younger, always having to win even at a stupid game. however, I don't think it's necessary to be competitive. If anything, it causes conflict and agression. I'm going to use the old saying here, "What Would Jesus Do?" and I don't think Jesus would have had a competitive attitude, not even with Buddha if they ever knew eachother.

so no, I don't think competition is good in general, but its especially not neccesary for one's spiritual development.

[InfoSource]

I think competition is good/bad depending upon the context

In sports competition is the main focus whether it be in individual or team sports, in individual sports competition with other players gives you a measuring stick of where you rank in a league and how far you need to train and/or refine your game to get to the top, likewise in team sports

A competitive spirit is good if it gives you motivation to improve oneself, but it can be bad if it leads to an obsession to be better than everyone else, or have more wealth than everyone else, which can tempt people to lie, cheat, or even be violent to reach the top

You can argue that materialism/consumerism is caused by competition with others, which is what I think the Thaori were pointing to when they said materialism was the number 1 problem on Earth,

As far as competition for spiritual development is concerned, I don’t think it will help you, it’s not about who has greater telepathic abilities or who can astral project the longest, it’s an individual pursuit that doesn’t require competition with others, it’s not a race but a process

[Bastian]

For the sake of argument I will propose that competition is very similar to greed. Greed is desire for material wealth (and food), and competition is often expressed as the desire to have more material wealth than another. Of course competition is much broader form of selfish desire than materialism (or greed).

Sometimes people do the right thing for the wrong reasons. If you desire to improve yourself for competitive reasons then perhaps you are doing the right thing for the wrong reasons?

People can do 'good' things out of greed (you would be surprised), and yet greed is harmful to our spiritual progress. Believe me, I have seen a good example of how greed can benefit society - and it was an example used to defend capitalism. This of course raised the conclusion that greed is materially beneficial and therefore morally good.

[Aisin]

Believe me, I have seen a good example of how greed can benefit society - and it was an example used to defend capitalism.

I'd prefer you share the example, than to blindly believe your statement.

[Bastian]

I think competition is a primal instinct because I used to be very competitive when I was younger, always having to win even at a stupid game.

Yes, I used to love playing games like adventure games, fantasy games, etc. After reading thiaoouba prophecy I eventually realised that the reason these games were addictive was that they kept up a constant stream of desirable things to collect / acheive - eg. spells, gold, levels, skills, etc. The mechanism that had me hooked was just like that of those 'slot machines' they have in casino's - they pandered to my greed!

however, I don't think it's necessary to be competitive. If anything, it causes conflict and agression.

agreed

I'm going to use the old saying here, "What Would Jesus Do?" and I don't think Jesus would have had a competitive attitude, not even with Buddha if they ever knew eachother.

It might be cliched but it works great and is a super simple way of getting our priorities straight. Other folks could ask "What would Krishna do?" or "What would Buddha / Moses / Mohammed do"

[Bastian]

Sometimes people do the right thing for the wrong reasons. [.. snip..]
People can do 'good' things out of greed (you would be surprised), and yet greed is harmful to our spiritual progress. Believe me, I have seen a good example of how greed can benefit society - and it was an example used to defend capitalism. This of course raised the conclusion that greed is materially beneficial and therefore morally good.

I'd prefer you share the example, than to blindly believe your statement.

That's your choice . If I tried to restate / paraphrase it in my own words I could not give a decent rendition of the article. I don't have time right now to find it online, and I can not remember the title of the article. I have it filed away at home - pretty sure that I know where it is.

In the mean time just trust me ok

What I said wasn't meant to be a statement in defence of capitalism. The conclusion one might reach from the article is that "greed is materially beneficial and therefore morally good" and I raised that point as it is an example of a Non Sequitur argument (a type of 'logical fallacy').

Just because something appears to be materially beneficial to society, it does not always mean that it is good for our spiritual development. I was not saying that "capitalism is good", rather I was reiterating that "sometimes people do the right thing for the wrong reasons". So.. I will give you a different example of that point:
Multinational companies will regularly give enormous donations for PR purposes, ie. they do it to generate 'good will' among consumers. The intention they have is to use the donation for marketing / advertising purposes so that people will buy more of their products -- not because they cared about the poor, sick, or famine struck. Outwardly the companies give the illusion of being generous and kind but inwardly (in their hearts and minds) they are only doing it for selfish gain. They are like a wolf in sheep's clothing..

Matthew 6:1 "Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
5 "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.

[Aisin]

Yup, i understood you weren't defending capitalism. I was curious about the example, hope you'll locate it soon

You may be partially correct on the point "Multinational companies will regularly give enormous donations for PR purposes", but they may be doing more than that. There is deeper meaning to donations than mere PR purposes, donations may boost the emotional well-being and confidence of the donor (as an individual or organization). but then again, these are still beneficial mechanisms in a capitalist world.

I'd like to share this book: The science of getting rich by Wallace D. Wattles, downloadable from http://www.scienceofgettingrich.net/ [or PM me, i'll send u the pdf]

There are a lot of arguments and principles in the book which i disagree with. However, it touches quite some crucial issues in capitalism, some relevant to our discussion. Of course the main objective of the book is about how to be rich in the materialistic sense, but surprisingly, it cannot be achieved with pure greed for materialistic possession, and not by competition at all. The most intriguing notion is a balance between body (and all things physical), mind and soul (i interpret it to be spiritual aspect). This part of the message may shed some light for us to bridge the gap between extreme materialism and extreme spiritualism

There is also a chapter in this book which mentions that, in order to excel in 'getting rich', one should rise above the 'competitive plane' and advance onto the 'creative plane'.

[Bastian]

Yup, i understood you weren't defending capitalism. I was curious about the example, hope you'll locate it soon

Wasn't as easy to find as I thought. Kind of hard because I could not remember the title / author but only the general theme of the text. Found it in the end:

Capitalism and Greed by James Doti

You may be partially correct on the point "Multinational companies will regularly give enormous donations for PR purposes", but they may be doing more than that.

I did not exclusively say that all Multinationals give to charity for PR purposes, rather I said it happens and my guess is that it is a regular occurrence. I am sure there are some large companies where the managers / CEO's have a sincere desire to help charities. As I understand it - a 'public company' exists for the prime purpose of generating profit for its share holders, and that this is enforceable by law (heard about that in a movie/documentary .. err what was its name? I think it was called 'The Corporation'?). Giving to charity does not immediately increase a share holders returns unless it promotes further profit through PR -- at least I can't think of an example where it would..

[bomohwkl]

Definition
capitalism
an economic, political and social system based on private ownership of property, business and industry, and directed towards making the greatest possible profits for successful organizations

The question is how are we going to achieve the greatest profits? It there any ways of maximizing the profit without exploitation? How far does one go until one starts to exploit other people?

exploitation
when someone uses someone else unfairly for their own advantage