Abortion

[Vesko]

Indeed there is something else, there always is something else. Perhapse that is why I said "but not astute enough", it was, however, not as a personal remark. Sorry for the tension here. Try to see it as a joke and loose up. There is no energy in my words apart from what you put in while reading it.

Fine, I take it as if it were a joke and loose up, now that you explain. There is no problem with me now. But there is still the problem that there are, no doubt, many readers that would have been offended, too, if they were in my place, so in the future, please put in the effort to minimize the possibility for misinterpretation of your words in the first place.

[Lena]

It is what is called a “maybe baby”, it is a device that you put a little bit of suliver in and you can tell wither you are ovulating or not, this way you can figure out your cycle, and when is a good time to “make love”, the benefits, no hormonal pills, no condoms which most people I know can’t stand, and your working with nature to your advantage, you just have to stop making love for a couple of weeks in every month, this is also a advantage, as this tends to “make the heart grow fonder”

I don't think this would work because typically, a woman is craving sex the most when she is ovulating. it would be very frusterating to abstain from intercourse during that time of month.

Conversations are always split, that is because most conversations have no basis. Look in the world around you; watch people talk. After a minute or so, many have strayed from there original paths. Only one in a thousand actually knows what the conversation was about 30 min. ago. Most talk but can't remember what about, they even forget they have forgotten.

I recall a casual conversation I had yesterday, and specifically what we talked about. I remember some conversations I had last week. maybe I'm weird.

[shezmear]

Yes it does work; I know people that do it, still interesting that you say, “a woman is craving sex the most when she is ovulating”, an interesting design..Don`t you think?

Males abstaining from sex is very hard also, no, let me try and do that justice, it is very, very , very, very , very hard, it seems that the human mechanism is geared for this event to take place, every time I have fought with it, I have lost, however if one can manage to abstain for say 2 weeks some interesting things start to take place, of cause this is relative to the male, my point, yes, I can totally agree with you it is hard to abstain from sex as a female, but it is hard for both party’s, I would dare say that if the female is craving sexual fulfillment the male would pick up on various signals which would also drive him to the event with far less self control.

In all a little self supervision can go a long way.

Not all things can be easy…and remember this approach is still using nature, I’m sure someone will dispute that the “natural” thing to do would be to make love, and I can also see the value of this.

But if one wants to be able to have some say in one’s unconscious drives and remain in the frame work of nature, one would need to exercise some form of self control, and yes this will arise in frustration, but I’m not sure how long it will last, the frustration that is…:)

[Alisima]

Yes it does work; I know people that do it, still interesting that you say, “a woman is craving sex the most when she is ovulating”, an interesting design..Don`t you think?

Well, sex is the way we keep ourselves alive. And we are programmed to do that. The interresting thing is that sex isn't simply used to procreate, but also for a variety of other reasons. For instance: pleasure. But, pleasure can also be 'created' by doing other things, even alone. In fact, apart from a child, all things created due to sex, which are essentially 'feelings', can be created by other means, and much more intense that is. Sadly, many people think these intense sensations/feeling are spiritual, and, because they want to be as spiritual as it gets, they abstain from sex and honestly believe sex to be bad and only for sinners (ofcourse there are a millions other ways for people to condemn sex.) The worst part is that trying to abstain from sex is like trying to think yourself without thought, which is impossible. There is essentially no difference between a person who indulges in sex and one who consciously tries to abstain from it. Although the latter will probably not have sex, depending on his strength of will, he will continuously try to maintain himself in a state where he won't have sex, and, like the former, his head will be full with thoughts of sex (although, unlike the former, he will think about not having sex while the former will think about having sex. But, there is no difference, both think about sex.) So, when you see that not thinking about sex is different from thinking of not having sex, you will understand where those who condemn sex, and also those who try to abstain from it without condemning (even for a little while,) went wrong.

The funny thing is that refraining from thought, like refraining from sex, is impossible. Just like you cannot consciously refrain from thought, you cannot consciously refrain from sex. But how do you refrain from sex?? You don't, you can't. This is the simple truth, while the concept sex is still in your head, you can't refrain from it. You can only indirectly refrain from sex when the whole concept of sex isn't in your head, either as wanting to have sex or as wanting not to have sex (paradoxically, this can't be considered refraining from sex since the whole concept of sex isn't there.)

Males abstaining from sex is very hard also, no, let me try and do that justice, it is very, very , very, very , very hard, it seems that the human mechanism is geared for this event to take place, every time I have fought with it, I have lost, however if one can manage to abstain for say 2 weeks some interesting things start to take place

As I said above, it isn't hard. It is actually very easy. You have to be in a good frame of mind though.

of cause this is relative to the male, my point, yes, I can totally agree with you it is hard to abstain from sex as a female, but it is hard for both party’s, I would dare say that if the female is craving sexual fulfillment the male would pick up on various signals which would also drive him to the event with far less self control.

Instead of having sex there are millions of other things to do.

Not all things can be easy…and remember this approach is still using nature, I’m sure someone will dispute that the “natural” thing to do would be to make love, and I can also see the value of this.

And by making love you mean having sex?? Well, I guess at some given moments it is the natural thing to do, instead of not doing it. There is essentialy nothing wrong with it, just a release of 'energy'. But I also believe there are ways of 'union', with yourself, that, instead of releasing energy, create energy, and, ofcourse, fulfilment.

But if one wants to be able to have some say in one’s unconscious drives and remain in the frame work of nature, one would need to exercise some form of self control, and yes this will arise in frustration, but I’m not sure how long it will last, the frustration that is…:)

Everything that leads to frustration is better to avoid, since, frustration is, ehh, well, frustrating... Although the avoiding of frustration in itself can lead to more frustration whenever you are frustrated since you were trying to avoid it. So the whole frustrating itself is like a vicious circle. That is why you should avoid it, but, since avoiding frustration is the cause of more frustration, you should avoid avoiding frustration. This ofcourse goes on endlessly and in the end leaves you frustrated. So, to recap, everything about frustration, even avoiding frustration and avoiding avoiding frustration, leads to frustration. And the same is with everything you try to avoid, including sex and thought. (this is basically a recap of the first two paragraphs, but in other words.)

Interestingly, this above discribed mechanism is how I believe many people go insane. But that is another story.

[Lena]

Interestingly, this above discribed mechanism is how I believe many people go insane. But that is another story.

I'm sorry, but I think trying to comprehend your post almost made me go insane.

[shezmear]

Alisima not to take anything away from what you have said,but I have to agree with Lena on this one, it was hard work,

[Yothu]

There is nothing to be "understood" in Alisima's latest post. It simply is off-topic.
Alisima, let's stick to the topic carefully. I also advise you to re-read your own post at least once before hitting the "Submit" button to ensure its relevance and consistency.
Also, I will not debate this post of mine at this position. Any comments or "analysis" of it will be removed immediately.

[Aisin]

As far as when rape happens, I think abortion should be a choice to the female, however I think in evolved civilizations rape would be minable,

Agree, in that case, our world is far from evolved. Rape still happens in every country. I was considerably shocked when i read about the unbelievable extent to which it happens in the biographical book 'Desert Flower' by Waris Dirie. Just a few decades back in Somalia, every man who encountered this girl travelling alone had attempted to rape her, who was in her early teens then. And her father's friend had raped her when she was only 4 years old. In my opinion, he should really receive the treatment described in TP, get bitten by ants to death.

I also think education would be far superior leading to women making far better choices about there body’s cycles and who they slept with.

Now the last 4 words of the sentence above, maybe you did not mean it, Shezmear, but it can sound misleading and discriminative. Is it only the responsibility of the female when unwanted pre-marital pregnancy occurs? Does that exempt the male from his liabilities for getting a girl pregnant?

It takes 2 to create the issue, and it's only fair to take the same 2 to solve it, be it (1) marriage; or (2) abortion. If abortion is the choice, the female would have suffered greatly physically, would it be fair to ask her to suffer emotionally (guilt, distress, confusion, dilemma) all alone? shouldn't the baby's father also play an active role in the emotional trauma that the mother goes through? in that sense, i do not think that it is the mother's decision alone whether to abort or not.

BTW, survivor's post in Hermaphrodites - Male/Female regarding Tom's explanation of the 6th of Tibetan 6 exercises just strikes me as very relevant. If only people are not blinded by their sexual drive, and that people are enlightened about what to do with excessive drive, they can easily abstain from pre-marital sex (abstinence is still the best contraception) and won't create unwanted babies, hence why do we even need to talk about abortion? (oh but that's too utopian...)

In my fathers day if you got a women pregnant you got married

I know you also said this and you do not have a stand on this issue yet. My stand is, if you bang someone's car you pay for the damage or the repair. likewise with pre-marital pregnancy. maybe our parents' generation had been more compassionate, they don't kill the baby, they raise him / her and provide shelter and a family for the baby. after all it's their action that brings the baby into existence, cause and effect.

[shezmear]

Hi Aisin

I agree with all that you have you said, to explain what I meant by this, (I also think education would be far superior leading to women making far better choices about there body’s cycles and who they slept with)

Yes it is entirely the responsibility of both party’s, but the reality is the female gets stuck with the child, hence if I was a female, and know what I know about males I would be very careful who I slept with, because at the end of the day, the child is growing in me, not him, although he morally carries the responsibly, I end up carrying the child, which as I said in my previous post "should" be a wonderful thing.

I have herd stories of younger people getting pregnant and the younger man just simply run’s away?

Or better still claims he is not ready to be a farther, which is sad , I had to watch as a close friend of mine went through an abortion, while the so called farther, just claimed he was not ready to grow up, I guess, what I’m saying is the female need’s to be street wise about were things lead, because there are realities and people out there that will tell you anything to get into bed with you, and this is my point, it’s not right and it never will be but it’s what goes on.

I am in many way’s great full that I am male and not born in a third world country, I think the way females are treated is the worst of the worst, I will not repeat some of the story’s I have read and been told but I have herd some true horror story’s, were nobody wins, everybody is hurt and violated and nobody is held accountable.

This is often were I struggle with the whole concept of Karma, in relation to these issues.

It’s funny you mention the book Desert Flower because for some strange reason back in like 1999 I saw this book and picked it up in Brisbane were I used to live, and read the back cover, and have always remembered her story, I like the idea how she changed her life, she did something about it.

[Aisin]

Shezmear, if you put together the 1st & 4th paragraphs of your post, there is no cause and effect relationship actually. What I mean is, no matter how careful the girl is, she has no way of predicting how the guy will react when she announces her pregnancy. Maybe the guy himself can't even predict how he reacts. He may be pleasant & passionate before, but runs away when he learns of the pregnancy. Sad but true isn't it?

Glad to know that you are glad of being a guy

[survivor]

Many many moons ago I sat on the fence re:abortion, NOW I'm against abortion (obviously it's one's choice) and yet, the Australian government wish to introduce this sickening abortion pill named RU486 (even the name stinks of evil) still, it is an individual choice and I believe 'ptex' quote below should apply to anyone seeking an abortion.(which I put in bold and underlined below)

On the other hand, a proactive step would be to educate people regarding not only about this issue but also towards the ways of spirituality, honesty... and, you know, I believe in giving a second chance to the deserving ones.

The preservation of life should be the Highest Priority among all other priorities!

[anonymousbeing]

Bring a life onto earth is a BIG responsibility on earth. If you think you are incapable of providing love and security to the yet unborn child, think again whether you can to cause unnecessary suffering to that child.

[Lena]

Bring a life onto earth is a BIG responsibility on earth. If you think you are incapable of providing love and security to the yet unborn child, think again whether you can to cause unnecessary suffering to that child.

or better yet, think again before having intercourse in the first place.

[anonymousbeing]

unfortunately it doesn't happen all the time when the emotion is high!!