The Search for Aliens

This forum is intended to cater for topics that do not strictly relate to the book "Thiaoouba Prophecy", "She and I", and other closely related material.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Marcus
Posts: 211
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:59 am
Location: Perth, Australia
Contact:

The Search for Aliens

Post: # 3280Post Marcus »

Taken from: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/20 ... 313722.htm
Japan scans skies for alien life
Two Japanese observatories have started a probe to find signs of extraterrestrial life using radio and optical telescopes, in Japan's first government-backed search for aliens.

"I don't think it would be any wonder if life like us exists somewhere else as space is vast," Mitsumi Fujishita, radioastronomy professor at Kyushu Tokai University, said.

The five-day search is being done jointly at the Nishi-Harima Astronomical Observatory, and the state-run Mizusawa Astrogeodynamics Observatory in northern Japan.

The researchers say there have been earlier Japanese efforts to detect signs of aliens but this is the first such search involving a state-run organisation.

The Mizusawa observatory is using a radio telescope with a diameter of 10 metres to try to find radio waves.

Rhe Nishi-Harima observatory, with a two-metre reflector telescope, aims to detect light.

They will focus on the area near the Hydra constellation where a US researcher detected radio waves in 1988.

Another researcher says it "will be very difficult to find signs as we don't know which radio waves would come at what time or from where."

"Even if they cannot detect anything, however, it is important to find out what it (the lack of detection) means scientifically," he said.

Japan is drafting an ambitious space program, with a goal of a manned station on the moon by 2025, after successfully sending into space a satellite last Saturday.

The launch came 15 months after a similar unmanned launch failed disastrously.
Reckon they'll find anything? :)
It aint about who you love but do you love?

Michael Franti/Spearhead.
User avatar
InfoSource
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:14 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re..

Post: # 3294Post InfoSource »

I think they should try looking at the Pleiades star system
User avatar
Robanan
Posts: 949
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:27 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post: # 3300Post Robanan »

Do they have instruments that enables them to see/find planets? Does anyone have any idea how do they "Look for/find" planets?
The essence of Consciousness, is the ability to Create, Process, Transmit and Receive Information Autonomously.
User avatar
bomohwkl
Posts: 741
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 4:56 pm

Post: # 3306Post bomohwkl »

ah...dont think they will be able to find any. I dont think aliens communicate using radio waves. Those alien civilisation that communicates using radio waves will not be able to sustain its ignorant understanding of nature as the cilivisation will go down probably in 300 years time?
Vesko
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:13 pm

Post: # 3307Post Vesko »

This program (which is quite short, only 5 days) does not aim at all at the direct observation of planets that harbor intelligent life outside our solar system and is similar to the SETI program in the US. The optical telescope that the Japanese use is quite small (2 m.), and has absolutely no capacity to discern any extrasolar terrestrial, or Earth-like planet. From what I know, even though their radio telescope is 10 m., it too is quite incapable of obtaining images of, or even detecting extrasolar terrestrial planets.

It is thought that only terrestrial planets can harbor life because bigger planets would crush life as we know it, that is why it seems that only they matter for finding intelligence.

So, instead of trying to find such planets or intelligent life on them by directly observing them, researchers use the radio telescope to capture radio (not visible light, or optical) frequencies originating from certain areas in space. Doing this, they do not construct an image. Instead, they scan the frequencies for patterns that cannot be explained by non-living processes. Having captured the data, they can scan it for data much later.

With such inadequate equipment, it seems the Japanese researchers only use the optical telescope after they spot a suspicious pattern in the data. Then they can use both the optical and the radio telescope to obtain images of the area that the patterns originated from so that they can study it in more detail. It is worth noting that while radio telescopes can be used to obtain images, they have much worse resolution in comparison with equivalent optical ones, but are used because radio data can provide valuable information.

In fact, any current Earth-based telescope, even the currently largest 10-11 m. optical telescope mirrors are incapable of discerning extrasolar terrestrial planets, because the atmosphere limits the resolution of any optical telescope. That is why even the relatively small 2.5 m. Hubble telescope, which is unfortunately going to be de-orbited soon, has a much superior resolution to even the biggest Earth telescopes. However, it still pays off to build much large telescopes on Earth than we currently have, because even though the resolution from Earth hits a limit, those very large telescopes are capable of discerning much dimmer, fainter objects. There is work underway to build optical telescopes with a single 100+ metre mirror. I've also read about techniques to compensate for the undesired effects (such as turbulence) of the atmosphere, and it is possible that one day those new very huge telescopes are going to allow the detection of extrasolar terrestrial planets right here from Earth.

To get most of the function of a large telescope (optical, radio, etc.) without building one, it is possible to use a technique called interferometry, to combine two or more telescopes separated by a certain distance, and obtain the effect of having a single telescope with a mirror area equalling not only the combined mirror area of the separate telescopes, but also considerably larger one. However, an interferometer is still an inferior substitute, so it still makes sense to build the large telescope.

Our current Holy Grail of search for extraterrestrial planets that can harbor intelligence are projects making use of an array of smaller telescopes in an interferometer configuration, using ingenious techniques called nulling or nullifying interferometry, also known under the name of interferometric coronography, to cancel out the glare of stars around which terrestrial planets may be orbiting (I remember reading how one of the caveats in it is the usage of filters in the form of a cat eye). While cancelling out glare is not an absolute requirement for the detection of Jupiter-sized planets for example, and many of them have already been successfully found in other solar systems, light from the smaller Earth-like planets is overtaken by their star(s) (or sun/s/), and that does not allow us to discern those planets. Similarly, the gravitation effects of an Earth-like planet on its surroundings is negligible and we do not seem to be able to use it as a discerning factor, either. So all in all, only such interferometers, or their large equivalent telescope, and their situation in space, seems the only thing for the foreseeable future that is going to allow us to discover Earth-like planets -- unless there is a breakthrough in Earth-based telescopes, but even if there is, it is probably going to occur after we have already found many Earth-like planets through the usage of space interferometers.

The ESA Project Darwin is an infrared space interferometer will makes use of the nulling technique and 6 telescopes, currently slated for launch in 2014.
The NASA equivalent is the Terrestrial Planet Finder, slated for launch in 2012-2015, with 4 telescopes (but larger than Darwin's) but still undecided (will decide this year or next) on the exact design of the telescopes to use. The page says the Terrestrial Planet Finder is going to be able to detect Earth-like planets 50 light years away.

Probably, as Bomohwkl said, aliens do not communicate with radio waves, because the latter travel at the speed of light, and the distances between stars are too great to allow for efficient communication. In the Meanwell audio interviews, of which there are excerpts on Meanwell's site, Michel Desmarquet states this is not the way to communicate and that is why the people of Mu built their pyramids -- to have instant communication at the speed of thought.
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
Vesko
Posts: 1086
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:13 pm

Post: # 7213Post Vesko »

Above I write:
Vesko wrote:Similarly, the gravitation effects of an Earth-like planet on its surroundings is negligible and we do not seem to be able to use it as a discerning factor, either. So all in all, only such interferometers, or their large equivalent telescope, and their situation in space, seems the only thing for the foreseeable future that is going to allow us to discover Earth-like planets
As can be read from the article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extrasolar_planet, there is actually a limited existing method for this -- four (4) Earth-like planets have already been confirmed (date?) to be detected non-visually through a technique called gravitational microlensing and this is currently the only way to detect such planets. And "detected planets will tend to be several kiloparsecs away", i.e. very far, "so follow-up observations with other methods are usually impossible". Still, this is certainly better than nothing until Project Darwin and Terrestrial Planet Finder are realised, or some other unexpected method is discovered.
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
Post Reply