Hydrogen Technology

Discussion on preserving Nature: preventing the pollution, destruction and disbalancing of the finely-tuned natural ecosystems on our planet.

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Kestrel
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Post: # 450Post Kestrel »

This is some amazing information to me.
Vesko
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Post: # 962Post Vesko »

The following links were posted on today's news on SlashDot (a technology-related site with innumerable silly posts, but occasional useful info). I add some comments:

This company produces ethanol from two sources: conventional (corn) ethanol and the lower-cost new cellulose ethanol, introduced this year.

http://www.iogen.ca

I can confirm that this is popular in Canada. I don't know the percentage of people using it, but when I visited Canada last year, I learned that ethanol was commonly used there, and I travelled in a car using corn ethanol.

---

http://physicsweb.org/article/news/8/2/6
Fuel cells burn hydrogen to produce electrical energy, with water as the only by-product. However, most of the hydrogen used in fuel cells is produced from natural gas, which means that the energy is not clean. “Hydrogen makes no sense unless it comes from renewable fuels because fossil fuels inevitably produce carbon dioxide,” says Schmidt. “Ethanol is an available and efficient store of renewable energy.”
Ethanol made from corn has already been used to power some car engines, but the process is only 20% efficient. Moreover, all traces of water must be removed before the ethanol can be used as a fuel, which adds to processing costs. Now, the Minnesota-Patras team says that if ethanol was used to make hydrogen for fuel cells, the process would be 60% efficient and the ethanol would not need to be pure.
...
The team believe that it should be possible to produce five molecules of hydrogen for every molecule of ethanol – rather than four as at present - once the process has been optimised. Electricity from a perfect fuel cell would cost only $0.04 per kilowatt-hour says the team, and the first applications could include small remote and portable devices.
If we connect the two articles, it seems that cellulose ethanol -> hydrogen is feasible. Did the aliens had our making unusable straws into clean fuel in mind?

---

Current world oil supply predictions:

http://www.peakoil.net/uhdsg/Default.htm
The present model departs from earlier ones in recognition that the Middle East no longer has sufficient spare capacity to discharge a swing role. A volatile epoch of recurring price shocks and consequential recessions dampening demand and price is now regarded as more likely, with terminal decline setting in and becoming self-evident by about 2010
---

See the original SlashDot news containing the links; in the same news there are more related links that you may want to check out, but I didn't find it necessary to post them, because IMHO they have too much subjective journalistic content.
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Marcus
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Hydrogen Technology Trial

Post: # 1287Post Marcus »

I learnt a few months ago that Perth, Western Australia has been selected to trial Hydrogen Powered buses. It's the only city in the Southern Hemisphere to trial such buses, I wonder why?? A lot of European countries are taking on such trials. At a cost of AUD 2,000000 each I hope all goes well. :applause: It seems at this stage our state Government takes environmental issues seriously.
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Zark
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Post: # 1289Post Zark »

hey thats great news :D ! keep us posted
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Post: # 1412Post Vesko »

The following recent article gives good perspective on what is happening in the large manufacturers' heads.

September 24, 2004:

"BMW unveils world's fastest hydrogen car"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6089614/

Some essential quotes:
"Our drive towards the future is called hydrogen"
...
The company cautioned, however, that while hydrogen itself doesn't pollute, most hydrogen is still obtained either from fossil fuels such as natural gas or by applying grid electricity to split water. Either way releases hydrocarbons.
...
Unlike most hydrogen-powered vehicles, the H2R doesn’t operate on fuel cells but rather uses a modified 6-liter, 12-cylinder combustion engine for its propulsion. Like fuel cells, the H2R's engine essentially emits nothing but water.
...
The company cautioned, however, that while hydrogen itself doesn't pollute, most hydrogen is still obtained either from fossil fuels such as natural gas or by applying grid electricity to split water. Either way releases hydrocarbons.
...
Most other carmakers are focused on fuel cells, but remain open to other approaches.

“Our bet is that the way to take the automobile out of the environmental equation is the hydrogen economy and hydrogen-based fuel cells,” said Fritz Henderson, the head of General Motors’ European arm. “We are spending a lot of time, money and effort to get there, but you can’t focus on only one (technology). You have to keep your feet in various different camps.”

Juergen Hubbert, head of DaimlerChrysler’s Mercedes division, had a stock answer when asked when fuel-cell cars would become a reality.

“This question comes up every year and ... I always have to say it will take 10 years,” he said, noting Daimler was making good progress with fuel cells but still faced bumps in the road.

“We have reduced volume (of fuel cells). We have reduced weight. What we couldn’t reduce so far is costs. Costs are still by far too high,” he said.

He cited a chicken-and-egg situation in which volumes had to go up to bring prices down, while high prices were keeping a lid on the size of the potential market. Fuel cells add thousands of dollars to the price of a standard car.
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First Retail Hydrogen Fuelling Station Opened in the US

Post: # 1782Post Vesko »

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Post: # 1794Post Kestrel »

I saw on TV a station that was powerd by solar power.

Meaning it splits the atoms to make the fuel for the fuel cell car, with solar power. Well solar cells might be expensive at first, but in the long run free power from the sun, free fuel. I wonder if anyone can find a better deal.

I know ford and BP are teaming up in sanfranscio detriot and some other citys to test this out. They will have small feets running with Hydrogen Fuel cell powerd ford foci (Focus). It may not be to far away that ford sells ford focus hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?cat ... Id=2017980

Theres the article. I'de love to drive a focus with a Hydrogen Fuel Cell engine, that would be awsome.

http://www.ford.com/en/vehicles/special ... Hybrid.htm

Found that on google. The engines name is "Think" Intresting concept. It says it only gose 80 MPH though, wonder why. I know my focus gose 110 with a govenor on it.

Hmm well reading up about this car in diffrent articles I've found on the internet. The engine weighs a lot right now. It also dosent put out as much horse power. I think though that there are enoguh smart researchers to figure this problem out. .
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Vesko
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Breakthrough in Producing Pure Hydrogen

Post: # 1957Post Vesko »

November 28, 2004.

Breakthrough in hydrogen production using nuclear power to do electrolysis of water by subjecting it to very high pressure.
To me, the process seems very simple, and I find it hard that such things are considered "breakthroughs" if they could be done perhaps more than 60 years ago? I mean, we had all this technology back then, for sure, but somehow history got swayed in the way of fossil (or whatever they are) fuels. What is your opinion?

http://www.indystar.com/articles/7/198067-9767-010.html

Source (and more links):
"Creating Hydrogen with (Very) Hot Water"
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl? ... 28/1921233
Last edited by Vesko on Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post: # 2644Post Vesko »

January 12, 2005

"Iceland's Hydrogen Buses Zip to Oil-Free Economy"
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... ydrogen_dc
The Reykjavik bus driver said diesel and hydrogen buses were similar to drive. "But the hydrogen bus is less noisy. Sitting in a diesel bus for nine hours sometimes gives you a headache. These buses don't have that problem."
See a photo of the steam coming out of the bus:
http://wwwb.aftonbladet.se/stockholm/03 ... ss2-34.jpg

Also from the article:

Remember Thao's words that the hydrogen motor is going to be more economical to consumers?
"The idea is that the buses should be twice as efficient as an internal combustion engine," said Jon Bjorn Skulason, general manager of Icelandic New Energy Ltd, which is in charge of seeking new applications for hydrogen like the bus fleet.
Also:
The world's first hydrogen filling station, run by Shell, opened in Reykjavik in April 2003.
One real "curiosity", IMHO:
Bush, for instance, wants to break reliance on Middle Eastern oil supplies as part of a wider quest for national security with a $1.2 billion scheme to promote hydrogen.
Huh? $1.2 billion for promotion of hydrogen, whereas roughly at the same time $300+ billion have been spent in the recent war? To me, that's another first-category decision (not first-class)... Definitely goes well with Thao's words that we are stifling the hydrogen motor.

Source and links:
"Hydrogen Buses in Iceland"
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl? ... 12/2313203
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Alisima
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Post: # 2653Post Alisima »

Vesko wrote:Huh? $1.2 billion for promotion of hydrogen, whereas roughly at the same time $300+ billion have been spent in the recent war? To me, that's another first-category decision (not first-class)... Definitely goes well with Thao's words that we are stifling the hydrogen motor.
Well hydro-technology certainly develops slow. But you should not complain about $1.2 billion. It is what positive people call a start!

I can understand why Bush thinks war has a bigger priority, he is not right ofcourse, but you should not condemn him.

Ofcourse that would mean I shouldn't condemn you either..... hmm, in that case, sorry :wink:
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Zark
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Post: # 2657Post Zark »

Vesko wrote:Huh? $1.2 billion for promotion of hydrogen, whereas roughly at the same time $300+ billion have been spent in the recent war? To me, that's another first-category decision (not first-class)... Definitely goes well with Thao's words that we are stifling the hydrogen motor.
I wonder if the $1.2B is a farce.. an insincere attempt to generate some positive media hype without any intention of living up to their promise. I am certain it didn't cost Iceland $1.2B to get those buses using hydrogen fuel !
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Post: # 2665Post Robanan »

uhmm, guys... I have this link That I seemed to keep for no apparent reason since I didn't study the site thoroughly. it's:
The American Hydrogen Association
Let me know if you find anything intresting there :wink:
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Post: # 3350Post Robanan »

Ford Motor Company plans to introduce its first commercial hydrogen-powered V-10, E-450 shuttle bus
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Post: # 3434Post Robanan »

World's First Fuel Cell MotorcycleUnveiled

The ENV (Emissions Neutral Vehicle) bike was designed to Intelligent Energy's brief by a British team, led by multi-award-winning designers Seymourpowell. The ENV bike is fully-functioning and has been engineered and purpose-built (based around Intelligent Energy's CORE fuel cell) from the ground up, demonstrating the real, everyday applicability of fuel cell technology. The CORE, which is completely detachable from the bike, is a radically compact and efficient fuel cell, capable of powering anything from a motorboat to a small domestic property.

Key Components of the Bike Power System
Motor - 6kW, 48 VDC Brush motor (model LEM-170, supplied by LMC)
Motor Controller - Brusa Direct Current (model MD 206)
Fuel Cell - 1kW Intelligent Energy air-cooled (2 x AC32-48)
Hydrogen Storage - High pressure carbon composite cylinder (Luxfer L65)
Hydrogen Energy - 2.4kWeh
Storage Battery - 4 x 12V Lead Acid (15Ahr) connected in series

Performance Data
Acceleration - 0 ­ 20 mph in 4.3s (32kph), 0 ­ 30 mph in 7.3s (48 kph), 0 ­ 50 mph in 12.1s (80kph)
Top speed - 50 mph (80kph) (note: ENV has been tested to 50mph ­ however, with further refinements and redevelopments, this top speed is expected to be exceeded)
Range - At least 100 miles (160km)

Physical

Bike mass - 80 kg (Total mass including CORE)

Fuel

Hydrogen - 99.9% purity
Oxygen - Taken from air
Hydrogen refuel time less than 5 minutes

Interface

Electrical connection - Multi-core (Intelligent Energy specific)

-Link courtesy from ADDICT3D
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jamen
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New Hydrogen Powered Motorcycles

Post: # 3871Post jamen »

I heard the news a week ago, It sounds great , they will be selling them by the next year
"The total silence in the countryside is fantastic. It's kind of like riding a horse," designer Ben Watson says, ... here is the link

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u ... rogenpower
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