Multiple "Dimensions"

[Vesko]

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I'm hoping to challenge you in the future . I'll try to get more data and find the purpose. Anyone with solid experience in astral travelling here?

[Meedan]

Concerning the 'real-time zone':

The astral body is made up of electrons. Astral Projection is the seperation of these electrons from your body. I see no need for a 'real-time zone' or dimension in this physical process. I had thought (before reading certain posts here) that the theory of the multiple dimensions was only from people who thought that the astral body is made of nothing.

Also, doesn't Robert Bruce think that the real-time zone 'updates' itself with a delay? I seem to remember reading that if you place an object in the physical world, it will take a while for it to appear in the real-time zone. This would obviously mean that if there is such a thing as the real-time zone, Michel did not project into it.

[Vesko]

Concerning the 'real-time zone':

The astral body is made up of electrons. Astral Projection is the seperation of these electrons from your body. I see no need for a 'real-time zone' or dimension in this physical process. I had thought (before reading certain posts here) that the theory of the multiple dimensions was only from people who thought that the astral body is made of nothing.

I've written in previous posts that I don't think it's a dimension per se, since the environment is the same as the the physical.

Also, doesn't Robert Bruce think that the real-time zone 'updates' itself with a delay? I seem to remember reading that if you place an object in the physical world, it will take a while for it to appear in the real-time zone. This would obviously mean that if there is such a thing as the real-time zone, Michel did not project into it.

I can't say anything here from experience, except to point you to "Treatise on OOBE" at http://www.astralpulse.com/guides/oobe/oobe_1.htm#3.
I quote here for convenience:

Any new object in the real world is assimilated into the astral dimension over a period of time. A thought form representation of it first grows in the lowest part of the astral, close to the physical dimension, becoming more and more permanent as time goes on. As with all thought forms, the more attention paid to it the quicker it grows.

The higher up in the astral dimension, or the further away from the physical, the less thought forms, of the physical world, as we know it, are found. Physical things have to soak in to it for a very long time before they take shape, and are found, in the higher astral.

Have you ever tried to move around a strange house in the dark? You bump into everything, right. But as you become familiar with it though, a mental picture of your surroundings forms in your mind, and you can find your way around it better. The longer you spend in this house the stronger this mental picture becomes. This is similar to how things are assimilated and grown, as thought forms, in other dimensions.

The generation of thought forms in the astral also works in the reverse. If a physical object has been around for a very long time, it will have grown a lasting thought form impression in the astral. After the object is destroyed or removed, its thought form still endures. You may, for example, in the astral, find furniture in your house you don't have, jumbled up with your own. This is caused by the decaying thought forms of old stuff, belonging to previous tenants etc, still being there, years after the originals have gone.

Old thought forms do not follow their physical counterpart around when they are moved. New ones begin to grow in the astral wherever it is while the old ones slowly decay. The longer a thing is in one place, the stronger the thought form will become in that place. This also applies to buildings, structures and geological features. You may project into a park and find a house, bridge, stream, hill etc that you know is definitely not there. These may have existed in times past. The higher up in the astral you go, the older the thought forms are, or the further back in geological time you appear to be.

The rate of growth of a thought form depends largely on the amount of attention paid to it. For example, a famous painting; loved, viewed and highly thought of by millions, will have a much stronger thought form than that of a common painting that hangs in someone's bedroom and is only viewed by a few. The number of thought forms you find in the astral also depends on how close you are to the physical dimension. If you are very close, as in a real time projection or OOBE, very few thought forms, if any, will be found. In a real time OOBE you are not quite in the astral dimension but are existing as an astral form in the buffer zone between the astral and the physical dimensions.

[Meedan]

Ah, so he was not talking about the real-time zone having a delay, he meant the astral dimensions. That extract further supports my suspicion that the 'astral dimension' is more of a mental construct than a real dimension.

[Lachie]

I'm sorry, Meedan, but how does it support that theory?

If millions of people view an object and it becomes stronger, surely that implies an objective entity or dimension that all can access, rather than some mental construct that is purely subjective... in fact, a mental construct would not be possible for the closest astral realm, which defines itself on similarity with the physical. Any subconscious subjectivity would instantly break the suspension of disbelief, and make the user believe it is a dream...

***, I should start reading the stuff in quotes.

Lachie

[Meedan]

For example, you have a lucid dream one night, in which you manifest the image/environment of your bedroom. Upon waking the next morning, you realise that in your dream, your bedroom didn't contain your new poster that you bought the other day. Since you're not used to the poster being there, it didn't appear in your dream.

If the astral dimension is as I suspect, then one such distortion would also seem to have a delay effect. It would mean that - in projecting to the 'astral dimension' - you are in 'creative' mode rather than 'observation' mode. It is likely that you would forget/distort certain details, especially if they are new objects or things you are not used to yet.

So, in that way, the delayed assimilation effect supports more my suspicion than a seperate astral dimension.


Concerning the millions of people:

If you and millions of other people are aware of something, it is well-known. Anything that is well-known could be easily 'recreated' by your own mind. However, remember that I'm not saying telepathy doesn't exist. Whatever the image that you 'see' is, you would still be able to receive and send information telepathically (electro-photonically). That information could even be visual information.

The point here is that there is no need for an astral dimension to explain any of this. This may even be a case of invoking Occam's Razor.

[Lachie]

Hi meedan,

I suppose that is possible, yes. However, don't forget that the military has been using remote viewing and astral projection on international targets for many years now, as shown by the "Operation Stargate" documents recently declassified.

It's also possible, given the 'poster in the bedroom' example, that it would be more of a perceptual difficulty in one's own mind. For example, the astral dimension is real, but you have not yet accepted the presence of that new poster into your subconscious so it does not appear in your perception of the astral plane.

However, lucid dreams are just dreams - they are not accurate projections into the lowest level of the astral realm hierarchy. I had a lucid dream about being chased by dinosaurs and guys with rocket launchers once. I tried to fly away but woke up before I could exit my body.

I like your idea about the telepathy - that would be very similar to how multiplayer games are programmed and displayed. So you think it's possible that the astral realm is the sum of the telepathic transmissions of all the peoplem on earth?

Talking about this stuff really makes me feel how much we do not know We are like blind children in a field full of razor blades, concrete blocks, and dobermans.

Lachie