Desensitized

[Vesko]

To bolster Lachie's words, I'd add that Sri Yuktesvar from "Authobiography of a Yogi" says, as far as I can remember, that this world is not designed for complete non-violence (ahimsa). I think the answer was prompted by the need to kill a mosquito. The inexperienced student, the author of the book, was bothered by mosquitoes and wondered if it's ok to kill them, while his teached, Sri Yuktesvar was not bothered (and not bit) by mosquitoes while sleeping because of his spiritual abilities.

[Lachie]

Does this mean that since violence is needed in this world, we should learn to like it, by playing these games?

No, not at all. Violence should never be celebrated. It should be treated like nuclear fission or genetic engineering - something that should be treated carefully, used wisely, and generally discouraged whenever possible.

I'm not some violence-hungry maniac =] But I think it is wise to accumulate a general knowledge of fighting and violence. Imagine what it would be like if every person on Earth was non-violent, and only one person was violent and immoral. That one person would have tremendous power over the entire planet, and would inflict terrible suffering on the people around him.

I would love to have a non-violent spiritual solution to high-intensity conflict situations but in the current world climate, and our current spiritual level of evolution, it's just not feasible. Perhaps Tom's next project could be the development of a technique to non-violently stun opponents using only the mind! NINJA!!!

hehe

I appreciate all of your opinions though. It's something i've been thinking about for a while now. Btw i noticed Bomohwkl has not posted here yet - perhaps he agrees with me?

Lachie

[Meedan]

Naah, personally I see the great bomo agreeing with me .

I know you're not violent at all Lachie, but what you are doing is confusing two subjects. I am saying that even if violence were a daily part of our lives, something we had to do all the time, there would still be no justification whatsoever for playing violent video games.

I am not a pacifist (in its strictest sense, anyway). I know that there are certain situations where violence is needed. I am saying that being a sociopath is the worst thing you can do in these situations though.

Violence should never be celebrated. It should be treated like nuclear fission or genetic engineering - something that should be treated carefully, used wisely, and generally discouraged whenever possible.

I agree, but a sociopath does not. Playing violent games slowly makes you think about using violence more liberally. They make you want to "resort to violence" at a much earlier time than necessary. This is a fact.

Even a war-mongering person may agree with me that violent video games should not be played, since these are seperate issues.

Imagine what it would be like if every person on Earth was non-violent, and only one person was violent and immoral. That one person would have tremendous power over the entire planet, and would inflict terrible suffering on the people around him.

I don't think that person would have any power at all, but as I said there are certain situations (not really that one though) where violence may be necessary.

No matter what the situation, violent games and media are never justified.

[Yothu]

Perhaps Tom's next project could be the development of a technique to non-violently stun opponents using only the mind! NINJA!!!

Lachie, do you have any reference? Stories, Tales, Docus or something on that? You got my interest

[bomohwkl]

From Cambridge Advanced learner dictionary
violence : actions or words which are intended to hurt people

Violent entertainment means nothing if you have the appropriate spiritual background to mitigate the damage it causes. Well, not so much damage - but control the power it gives you. Not everyone who can wield a hammer is able to smash someone's head with it.

The problem is when you play violent computer games at night, you will start dreaming that you are one of it. Your dream would be like a war zone, rather than a RESTFUL sleep with sweet dreams. My perferrence is to free extra resources of my mind before I sleep.

Let me give you an example. Say you come home and someone was raping one of your children, or your wife. The intruder has got a knife, but you have got a hammer... now, i don't think there would be anyone on this forum who would stand there and say, "Please stop. I'd hit you, but i don't believe in violence. Get out, please."

Your reaction is determined by your level of your spiritual maturity. You might even make a joke or inspire the intruder away from the violence.

This world was not designed for non-violence. it was designed for enlightened violence, as proven by Thao in attacking and killing those creatures with which reason was impossible. Remember: pacifism only works against a moral enemy

Enligtened violence? Sounds misused phrase such as holy war! About the killing in parallel universe, firstly they are in danger and you cannot have any meaningful discussion with them. They can just run away surely. Thao has few things to fear of. One of the solution is to confront the 'fear' rather than run away . Besides, Micheal was there and there was a responsibility to protect Micheal. One of the motives of Thao 'psychically kills' the persons from parallel universe is to liberate the astral body so that normal lessons of life can take place allowing the persons a chance to progress spiritually. I am sure that no pain is involved. Just severing the silver cord between the physical and astral bodies. Is it violence? Cluttering and polluting your mind with violent games with your self-consent is a self-inflicted violence. I am sure that they would have hardly have restful sleep at night. But people don't see it like that because people has yet to comprehend what they have done to their consciousness. I haven't played such games for long long time and have no interest anymore. I enjoy restful sleep. It makes you feel good and you tend to eat healthier as a consequence of restful sleep. Violent games drained my mental resources.
The motive people want to learn martial art is important. One might interest on the mind-body connection. One might want to learn because it gives them self-protection. One might learn because he want to take revenge.

Imagine what it would be like if every person on Earth was non-violent, and only one person was violent and immoral. That one person would have tremendous power over the entire planet, and would inflict terrible suffering on the people around him

.

Haha, who give the *** such a powerful as a leader? It sounds that peaceful, non-violent people has no appreaciation of peace themselves, and hence choose a violent leader............giggle.........sounds so amusingly illogical........

[Lachie]

Haha, who give the *** such a powerful as a leader? It sounds that peaceful, non-violent people has no appreaciation of peace themselves, and hence choose a violent leader............giggle.........sounds so amusingly illogical........

You misunderstood me a little here... i meant to say that since the one person has no morals, he can simply kill or torture any opposition to him seizing power. The way the current system is set up, the people with the least morals win - as has been seen by innumerable despots and dictators who torture and kill their opposition for an easy ride to power.

If my wife or child was being raped, I would not stand around and make a joke. I would not 'distract' or 'inspire' the intruder away from my wife or child. Those suggestions are laughable when you consider the type of person who would sink so low as to rape a weaker person.

It's all very well to preach non-violence when you are isolated from society, but try teaching it to a bouncer or a security guard.

Instructor: "You know, we were going to teach you how to defend yourself, but we thought you might do better if you quoted some inspiring philosophy, or perhaps made a joke. Here's a joke book, and a philosophy book, so that when you are attacked you can just open to a page of your choice, and loudly quote a certain phrase or joke. The people attacking you will realise that they are wrong and they will walk away."

Tee hee hee heee.

Lachie

PS. If Thao wanted to liberate the people, why didn't she kill them all? If she wanted to distract them or teach them a lesson, why didn't she conjure up an illusion? No, it seems that there is a deliberate lesson in that first part of the book. There are innumerable ways she could have dealt with that situation, instead she used the basest means possible.

[Marcus]

Your reaction is determined by your level of your spiritual maturity. You might even make a joke or inspire the intruder away from the violence.

Here's how I think 99.99% of people would react to a violent act, for example home intrusion:

1 You hear the intruder in the middle of the night
2 you get up to investigate
3 you are confronted
4 you ask/tell them to leave
5 if they don't leave and then they go on to attack you, you defend and protect yourself/family by all means possible.

Making a joke or trying to inspire someone is great in theory, but when push comes to shove it's totally inpractical.

Someone who breaks in to steal is not thinking logically, they obviously have an addiction that they need to feed. Jokes will mean nothing.

[Lachie]

"What's that noise?"

"AHHH AN INTRUDER!!! KNOCK KNOCK!!!"

Intruder: "Who's there?"

"Donald Duck!"

Intruder: "hahaha thats a good one, now lie on the floor over there while I take all of your stuff. What room is your daughter in?"

I don't think so, ppl....

Lachie

[bomohwkl]

Why a raper/robber want to intrude your house the first place?

1. Your house projects a great material wealth.
2. Your house seems to lack of basic security and careless in protecting your house, eg your door is unlocked, your window is wide opened
3. You live in a doggy area.

I heard from my friend that a house in my city was intruded by a robber. The house was rented by 6 young chinese students. Luckily, they have nothing much to steal. He opened the fridge and stole a bottle of milk............... Poor intruder. I wonder why he didnt rape them. My own opinion is that he found out that they were in worst situation than him and yet able to survive without stealing. He could well be inspired and make him think how to change his life. The intruder is able to intrude because of the very doggy house and doggy area the students were living.

So, with this information, we can drastically decrease the likelihood of being intruded. It is better to avoid situation that lead to violence. Because violence by the other people usually lead to violence on yourself in particuarly in the mind. Only people with high level of spiritual maturity will be able to do otherwise. I don't think everyone in here can do otherwise.

Imagine what it would be like if every person on Earth was non-violent, and only one person was violent and immoral. That one person would have tremendous power over the entire planet, and would inflict terrible suffering on the people around him. Since the one person has no morals, he can simply kill or torture any opposition to him seizing power.

I have seen this hypothetical situation from a COMPUTER GAME and even several hollywood movies. Could it be the effect of modern entertainment brainwashing the mass of the earth? I would be more agreeable if it has occured in the history.

I quote interesting paragrahs from Tom,

Suppose that the society was based on healthy principles and its members were brought up in the atmosphere of integrity. Do you think members of such a society would choose an *** for a leader? In a healthy society there may be thousands of *** with extraordinary ideas, but they will never be allowed to become leaders...

Hitler could ONLY hurt so many people, because he obtained a TOTAL support from the FLOCK. People in Germany had totally surrendered their intellect and integrity and AGREED to act as puppets of the "Reich" rather than as human beings.

For anyone conscious - the phenomenon of Hitler is one of the best examples in the history of Earth how dangerous could be following the flock.

"Majority of the stupid is guaranteed at all times" wrote Albert Einstein before Hitler came to power. How do you feel TODAY about being lead by leaders who are chosen by the majority? Aren't we repeating the same mistake over and over again?

Of course, when we allow things to go too far - we have to face consequences. When we allow a house to become on fire - it is too late to maintain the house in good order. We need to apply emergency procedures and destroy the house in the process. When people allow *** to become a leader - ridiculous situations such as fighting become inevitable.

My view is that the best thing to do is to keep the house in a good order to begin with, by using our Intellect to predict and avoid dangers

Use your Intellect to avoid danger. If we never aim for it we will always fails as history shown.

PS. If Thao wanted to liberate the people, why didn't she kill them all? If she wanted to distract them or teach them a lesson, why didn't she conjure up an illusion? No, it seems that there is a deliberate lesson in that first part of the book. There are innumerable ways she could have dealt with that situation, instead she used the basest means possible.
Liberating?’

Let quote the books. Thao has explained the REASONS behind the action. People like us don't even understand our own actions much to say understanding about the universe and the role we played. Killing all of them is not the role and resposibility of Thao. THe highlight is mine.

Of course we were. These are people who have been here for ten or fifteen thousand years - who knows? We don’t have time to establish that and besides, it is of no importance. Nevertheless, it illustrates well what I was explaining to you a few moments ago. These people passed into this universe at a certain time, and they have lived in that time ever since.’

‘It’s frightful!’

‘I agree. However it is part of natural, and therefore universal, law. Furthermore, they are dangerous because they behave more like wild beasts than human beings. Dialogue would not have been possible between them and us, just as it is not possible between them and most of the others living in this parallel universe. For one thing, they are unable to communicate; and for another, they, less than anyone, understand what has happened to them. We were in real danger and, if I do say so, I have done them a favour just now, of liberating them.’

‘They are liberated from their physical bodies and are now able to continue their cycle, like every living being, according to the normal process.’

‘So if I understand correctly, this parallel universe is a curse - a kind of hell or purgatory?’

‘I didn’t realise you were religious!’

‘I just make this comparison to show you that I am trying to understand,’ I replied, wondering how she could know whether or not I was religious.

‘I know, Michel, I was only teasing. You were right in explaining it as a kind of purgatory but, of course, this is quite accidental. In fact, this is one of several accidents of nature. An albino is an accident, and a four-leafed clover can also be considered as an accident. Your appendix is just as much an accident. Your doctors still wonder what use it could possibly have in your body. The answer - no use whatsoever. Now usually, in nature, everything has a precise reason for existing - that’s why I list the appendix among the natural ‘accidents’.

‘People living in this universe suffer neither physically nor morally. For example, if I hit you, you would feel no pain, but if the blows were strong enough, although without pain, you could still die from them. This might be difficult to comprehend, but it is so. Those existing here know nothing of what I have just explained to you, and it is fortunate because they would be tempted to commit suicide - which, even here, is not a solution.’

‘What do they eat?’

‘They don’t eat, nor do they drink, because they don’t feel the need to. Here, remember, time has stopped - those dead won’t even rot.’

‘But that’s terrible! In all, the greatest service that one can render these people would be to kill them!’

‘You raise an important point there. Effectively it would be one of two solutions.’

‘What is the other?’

‘To send them back where they came from - but that would pose great problems. Because we are able to make use of the warp, we could return many of them to your universe, and thus liberate [1] them, but I’m sure you are aware of the enormous problems that would create for the majority of these people. Here, as I have already said, you have people, who have been here for thousands of years. What would happen if they found themselves back in the universe they left so long ago?’

‘They might go insane. In all, there is nothing to do.’ She smiled gently at my affirmation.

Thao have seems to considered all solutions...... as you know.

[Meedan]

I think it is obvious that a rapist or violent intruder will often warrant the use of force, especially in the example Lachie originally gave. Your motives for using force - however - are the most important part of it.

That is a very good quote from Tom that bomo gave. In the parallel universe quote, I don't see where they considered the option of killing them all (either everyone in Earth's parallel universe or everyone in that group that almost attacked).

[Lachie]

Meedan, i agree with you fully. I also think you and bomo made excellent points regarding how playing violent games affect you. I think i'm going to have to stop playing these games as soon as possible. i find i much prefer the 'empire' games (which are based on war, but are not as violent).

take care all,

Lachie

[Vesko]

Meedan, i agree with you fully. I also think you and bomo made excellent points regarding how playing violent games affect you. I think i'm going to have to stop playing these games as soon as possible. i find i much prefer the 'empire' games (which are based on war, but are not as violent).

...but empire-building games foster grandomaniacal thoughts IMHO .

[bomohwkl]

...but they foster grandomaniacal thoughts IMHO

Alas, I am just showing my perference and the reasons behind them by relating to my very own SELF-observation.

[Meedan]

I think Vesko meant 'empire' games bomo.

[Vesko]

OMG, of course empire games! Bomo, please accept my apologies for anything on my part that has lead you to believe I am speaking about you and Meedan.