Hermaphrodites -- Male/Female

Everyone is related to someone else even if neither one knows it. Here's a place to discuss aspirations toward the perfect relationships with our fellow beings.

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Lena
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Post: # 7945Post Lena »

there is plenty of scientific evidence that homosexuality DOES have biological and genetic basis. I went to a workshop about it. I'm sure if you do more research you will see the information about it.

yes, heterosexuality is the natural way. but so is having normally shaped blood cells. then why are people born with Sickle Cell Anemia? Are you saying that those people made a concious choise to endure that disease? TP mentions that the Higher Self does induce diseases on people for the purpose of learning a lesson. Homosexuality is no different. it's a birth defect but it still serves a purpose.

the reason for not as many animals being homosexual is probably that animals don't have the same lessons to learn as humans do.
Frozn
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Post: # 7948Post Frozn »

Lena, I have read your story here, it helped me understand your point of view, and I am not sure that what I have said applies to you. Yet if you are going to make this argument:
Lena wrote:yes, heterosexuality is the natural way. but so is having normally shaped blood cells. then why are people born with Sickle Cell Anemia? Are you saying that those people made a concious choise to endure that disease?
Then you would also need to admit to homosexuality being a disease. I don't share that opinion, I am just saying it is an error. Perhaps since you also have physical properties that agree with your sexual orientation, it may not be an error in your case. I don't claim to be an expert on this, but I would appreciate your open ears.

I don't see how homosexuality could be compared to a disease, one is a pattern of behavior borne of individual choice, one is a genetic defect. The assumption that homosexuality, as with any other CHOICE is genetic in origin, may be correct in perhaps one in a million cases. With other behavior "illnesses" such as alcoholism, scientists have found genes which link people to an increased risk of developing the disorder, but the choice must still be made by the individual. The notion that behavior patterns just happen, the same way you 'just catch' a cold or other bacterial illness is very dangerous.

Such ideas are borne of a corrupt medical industry who will tell you that you can catch depression for no reason, and you cannot control it. These people will tell you that chemicals in your brain are out of balance, while no criteria for diagnosing the imbalance exist. (Honestly, look it up!) - All this in the interest of a prescription drug industry who would love to see all hyperactive children on ritalin. So let us proceed without the question of whether homosexuality is a choice.

I know this is a sensitive subject, so I will tread lightly across it Lena, and please, I mean no offense, nor am I condemning homosexuality. It should however be defined as what it is. Let us assume that the length of your ring finger and perhaps other hormonal factors give you your inclination to your preference. Alot of factors contribute, but in the end was it not you that made that descision ? Are you not in control of yourself? Of course you are. And although now you may experience romance with a female partner, it will be nothing more than an illusion compared to the bliss you would experience in true love with a male partner.

I agreed with you fully when you gave me your account of your friends who were gay due to unresolved fear or a troubled past--People who don't know who they are inside and yet think they know it all. My aim was to highlight that homosexual practice is useless in nature, and reduces the sexual act to nothing but orgasmic pleasure, without chance of earning the highest rewards from a deep loving bond. According to TP, that can only occur when a man and woman share a high Physical and Spiritual bond. And we as a species can not procreate homosexually, so why all the resentment when I call a spade a spade?

This is an inconvenient truth, but I will try my best not to earn any enemies in the process of saying it.
Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. - Gospel of Thomas
Lena
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Post: # 7958Post Lena »

you might find it interesting that I'm currently in a relationship with a male; we love eachother very much and it does actually feel better and more natural than when I was in love with a female. back then I went through a phase where I was mostly interested in girls because I felt vulnerable/insecure and to me females were less threatening. so that was a choice. then after a while I got tired of it and now I am glad to have my boyfriend. that was a choice. but throughout everything and even now I have sexual attractions to both sexes. I don't feel like I have any control over that. it's like telling a straight man not to be aroused by females. you just can't help it. I can and do control my behavior and I choose what type of person I want to be with but I can't control that instinctual sexual attraction. so I don't know, maybe it was an "error" for me to chose a female partner over a male. I don't regret it because I learned a lot from being in that relationship and it would have been an inevitable error anyway.
And although now you may experience romance with a female partner, it will be nothing more than an illusion compared to the bliss you would experience in true love with a male partner.
are you saying that to me specifically or just in general? if I were a lesbian it wouldn't be possible to have true love with a male. I would chose to love a female rather than be alone my whole life. or I could go the tom chalko way and channel all my sexual energy into spiritual energy! :P
Such ideas are borne of a corrupt medical industry who will tell you that you can catch depression for no reason, and you cannot control it. These people will tell you that chemicals in your brain are out of balance
this is a little off topic, but I wanted to mention that I've experienced being told those things. I do beleive I have genetic tendency towards addiction and depression but I've learned to live happily without medication or substance abuse.
My aim was to highlight that homosexual practice is useless in nature, and reduces the sexual act to nothing but orgasmic pleasure, without chance of earning the highest rewards from a deep loving bond
many heterosexuals reduce the sexual act to nothing but orgasmic pleasure. many heterosexuals will even have sex without any love for their partner. I think that's far worse than for a gay couple who at least love eachother on some level to have sex. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just pointing this out.
This is an inconvenient truth, but I will try my best not to earn any enemies in the process of saying it.
I'm not your enemy :D[/code][/i]
Frozn
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Post: # 7961Post Frozn »

Lena wrote:many heterosexuals reduce the sexual act to nothing but orgasmic pleasure. many heterosexuals will even have sex without any love for their partner. I think that's far worse than for a gay couple who at least love eachother on some level to have sex. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just pointing this out.
I totally agree.

I cannot say however that I havent made the error of meaningless sex. It is wrong, but only as wrong as masturbation (WERE ALL GOING TO HELL!). Both are demonstrations of ignorance, and you cannot punish people for being ignorant. I seek to find the ultimate pleasure, but as of this writing, she eludes me. The reasoning is, empty pleasure in pursuit of the ultimate bliss is better than no persuit nor any pleasure at all.

I am happy to hear that you have learned so much from your experience with women as well as men. As far as the attraction goes, it isn't an 'error' to appreciate beauty. The 'error' I was talking about was to seek true love from the same sex, or to not be seeking it at all. From what you have told me, you are farther down that road than I am. Also thanks for having an open mind on such a polarizing subject. My issue was only against the twisting of the words of Thao, with the hormonal loophole. I believe the term 'neurotic' was a bit harsh, but I think we can soften it up for the easily offended. :lol:

How about 'People whose upbringing led them to be attracted to the wrong gender'?

Well, its a start... :wink:
Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. - Gospel of Thomas
pattern
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Homosexuality

Post: # 9817Post pattern »

I haven't read this post yet, aside from the first few. Here's my input and experience, and why I also think that homosexual people are neurotic.

When I was young, I think about age 11 or 12, I was only friends with males. We began to play around and I became quite homosexual, but nothing except "touching and feeling" occurred. This went on for several years, until I "LEFT THE TOWN AND MOVED TO ANOTHER, LARGER TOWN, WHERE I SOON DEVELOPED OBSESSIVE COMPULSIVE DISORDER AND OTHER NEUROTIC SYMPTOMS". I had no idea at the time, but reflecting now, this seems to a direct result from loss of my homosexual mate, or something of the like. It should be known I had inbetween minor and sever "OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder), high social anxiety, and frequented a "psychiatrist". I was put on medication, etc etc. I eventually fixed myself overtime, adjusting to the lifestyle I was expected to live. I am now totally broken free from all OCD except sneezing, which I still think is rational and not irrational (if its irrational its OCD, in my opinion), because i believe sneezes are a sign of poor health, and my despise for the people who sneeze, including myself, is therefore explained. I have overcome this however, by countering this belief with "if we sneeze, it is a sign that our system is working properly to keep bad things out". So now I am not as bothered by sneezes, depending on which belief I am entertaining at the time. So in a sense, i have overcome atleast most of my neurotic symptoms.

Anyway, I am now fully attracted to girls, the memory of being homosexual is very vague, and I'm not afraid of other homosexual men(except when it reminds me of my past). I have never been attracted to men since, but I have also not achieved friendship with many of them (homosexual or straight). I take kinder to women as friends aswell now (as Michel does). So, maybe this provides insight to the homosexual and neurotic pattern :). I am 17 btw.

Oh and I can safely say that even BEFORE my homosexual development I displayed signs of neurosis, although much more minor, or otherwise unnoticed due to being a first child with orphaned parents with little experience of such things.

Oh and I'm also still plagued by false claustrophobia (klaustrophobia??), or however you spell it. But I think this may be due to my previous mouthbreathing habits, rather than through the nose and deeply. I still cant sleep at night without a fan =(.

On a higher note, the experience of these things all happen for a reason, thankfully mine didnt take a lifetime to learn, just a couple of years. I have seen many people here distaste the experiences others go through, which they already have, expecting them not to make the same mistakes. I would like to friendly remind them, that this is perhaps the reason we are here, to learn through mistakes, and not be expected to skip through them simply because it has been overcome before. On the positive side, going through such a lifestyle has enabled me to be very empathetic of other people, and I pride myself on being able to understand exactly why a person is the way they are, no matter how they are. No matter how seemingly evil, or clueless a person is, we must remind ourselves that this is natural, and in thier own best interest. I think the main question is, how do we coexist with such people, and overpower the patterns which bring these personalities into existance. Perhaps such major natural disasters are required, as popularized here, but until we find a solution, we should refrain from criticizing others on thier own pace of spiritual development.

One thing I never understood about TP book, is that by thier own philosophy, we have all the time in the universe, and mathematically, we will reach the source by the time infinity expires :). so whats the big rush? Keep in mind, I haven't finished the book, and im sorry if I missed an important part explaining otherwise
survivor
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try reading the last 4pages of this thread

Post: # 9828Post survivor »

pattern wrote:I haven't read this post yet, aside from the first few. Here's my input and experience, and why I also think that homosexual people are neurotic.


Anyway, I am now fully attracted to girls, the memory of being homosexual is very vague, and I'm not afraid of other homosexual men(except when it reminds me of my past). I have never been attracted to men since, but I have also not achieved friendship with many of them (homosexual or straight).
Accordingly to TP, homosexuals are neurotic heterosexuals.

I think the author should have just left the homo explanation alone out of the book..
an act against {free will} is an act against nature
pattern
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Post: # 9838Post pattern »

thats what I was saying lol, what was your point bolding that phrase?
survivor
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Post: # 9841Post survivor »

pattern wrote:thats what I was saying lol, what was your point bolding that phrase?
..let go, the fear. :idea:




Oh and read page 5 of this thread. :bounce:
an act against {free will} is an act against nature
Frozn
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Post: # 9859Post Frozn »

heres one more :D

Just popping by to say hi, and yes I still read these boards.
Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. - Gospel of Thomas
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Rezo
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Post: # 9860Post Rezo »

interesting subject...

...but I wonder this: why isn't hermaphroditic intercourse considered a slightly 'gay' situation, in that, the genitals involved on each hermaphrodite, assuming each type are fully developed, are fully involved [both have both types]?

-just an observation. I'm not afraid to ask [well I was for a few days when I first saw this, but actually I had this question a while now, but not very important to me I guess].

to put it a bit more simply maybe, what is a 'male' hermaphrodite, and what is a 'female' one??
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shezmear
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Post: # 9861Post shezmear »

it`s not gay because they are equally female as they are male.....
By their deeds shall you know them.
J.C
sahbii
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Evolution

Post: # 9997Post sahbii »

just wanted to see if anyone had heard of a theory regarding, homosexual feelings and evolution, as part of a process of transcending sexual/animal nature urges as part of a spiritual progression..? hmmm

More later..
Lena
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Post: # 10255Post Lena »

pattern, I've never heard of a story like yours. it's interesting. thanks for sharing!

what I hear more often are stories about gays being sent to jesus camp to turn them straight. and you can imagine what happens when a bunch of gay boys go to camp together. obviously it doesn't work. :)
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