Questioning The Book

[Yothu]

*Applause*

[gog]

Hmmmmm Hello everyone!!

Now first thing first.. why do you ppl always QUESTION, QUESTION, QUESTION, you starting to sound like DEBUNKERS... and then you wonder why TOM doesn't answer your questions....

I've read both books more than 5 times, and yes THE GREATEST TEMPLE OF MAN IS INSIDE... everynight when i go to sleep i look forward to my new experiences.. as TOM calls it VERIFICATION. yeah thats what i do. instead of QUESTIONING, VERIFY it yourself.. I thought this forum was about such topics, you know telling ones experiences to share with others.. and what do i see here. always VILIFICATION. why is that???????

Haven't you ppl even tried to meditate, surely i felt the same way when i started a year ago, nothing happens etc etc etc...

This world is so corrupted with NEGATIVITY, no wonder no one does nothing, always questioning...

at the moment I'm in the process of leaving my job and going back to my country and live in the country side.. oh yeah.. already my friends have been telling how am i gonna live etc etc etc... but you see once you realise who you really are and why you are here everything else is an illusion!!!

Well my friends i hope, you STOP questioning and START doing your own VERIFICATIONS with your MIND that is, hehehe

tata LIGHTWORKERS.............

[Vesko]

Dear Impalerr,

Thank you very much for your wonderful post. I hope this wonderful post of yours serves as a wake-up call to all of us to actually practice regular and intensive meditation and concentration in the most beautiful temple, not only speak of it beautifully.

I'm sorry that some of the posts, especially the most recent ones, have given you the impression of excessive doubt on the entire forum. I agree that excessive and obsessive questioning is a waste of time if dedicated practice (in this case, spiritual) is not done by each one of us. Like you, I would welcome less questioning leading to debates of the wasteful type "how many angels could fit on the head of a pin", more than a few of which we've unfortunately got here, and more of the valuable type "I did so-and-so; if you also do it, you are going to see that so-and-so is true."

I must say, though, that if you look at older forum posts, I'm sure you are going to find there is a substantial amount of posts discussing part of the book's text, or some other idea, without any heated arguments at all.

However, I absolutely agree with you that the forum is still sorely lacking first-hand personal experiences from spiritual practice. Your post seems to consider that the most important, and I couldn't agree more.

For the future of this forum, my personal hopes are two:

1. Continual exploration of the book in order to uncover hidden and subtle meanings, and comparison to other sources of information.
2. Sharing experiences inspired by the book: good thoughts and deeds, meditation, concentration, aura reading, astral travel and other valuable spiritual phenomena leading to more insight into true spirituality.

In short, I hope to see the forum gradually evolve into a useful resource that would be the NEXT STEP AFTER "Thiaoouba Prophecy" / "Abduction to the Ninth Planet", not another mindless text dump. I hope you all agree, and I'd like to thank you again, Impalerr, for your insightful and appropriate post (IMHO).



P.S.
Exactly three months ago, I also voluntarily quit my job -- a well-paying job in the city centre. When I decided to do that, I met discouragement and resistance from the vast majority of people I know. I did it because I felt it was high time that I focussed more on spirituality, and work on exactly what I feel would help me in that regard. Once you make the job/life change, I'd like to exchange a couple of e-mails with you . Don't ever give up on chasing your dreams, Impalerr, whatever they tell you!

[Marcus]

at the moment I'm in the process of leaving my job and going back to my country and live in the country side.. oh yeah.. already my friends have been telling how am i gonna live etc etc etc... but you see once you realise who you really are and why you are here everything else is an illusion!!!

This is the exact conclusion that I reached after staying with a friend recently who lives in an extremely isolated area. Life there was very much different to my suburban life. I look at things in a whole new light.

1. Continual exploration of the book in order to uncover hidden and subtle meanings, and comparison to other sources of information.
2. Sharing experiences inspired by the book: good thoughts and deeds, meditation, concentration, aura reading, astral travel and other valuable spiritual phenomena leading to more insight into true spirituality.

In short, I hope to see the forum gradually evolve into a useful resource that would be the NEXT STEP AFTER "Thiaoouba Prophecy" / "Abduction to the Ninth Planet", not another mindless text dump. I hope you all agree, and I'd like to thank you again, Impalerr, for your insightful and appropriate post (IMHO).

Please, please! The above is the most intelligent post that has been submitted in ages.

[Vesko]

But please Marcus, what did you expect? We are SMERT and WIES. (Thanks go out to Lachie for introducing me to this way of showing that one is lowly -- not yet developed -- by misspelling big-meaning and pompous words ).

[Meedan]

Welcome to the forum Impalerr.

Well my friends i hope, you STOP questioning and START doing your own VERIFICATIONS with your MIND that is, hehehe

...and that is the true path to faith, I agree. That is the best thing to do if you want to 'know' that Thiaoouba Prophecy is true. Don't question christianity, just verify it through your experiences. Do you experience gravity? Good, don't question science, just experience things. There is no other option, of course. If you don't have a 'spiritual experience' then you just need to try harder and for longer, if you do, then it has proven Thiaoouba Prophecy is true. Even if what you experienced matches what people have been experiencing for ages, and have written books on prior to 1987, Thiaoouba Prophecy is the only true version though.

I'm willing to bet that you haven't had a single experience that proves that Thiaoouba Prophecy is true. You may think you have experienced proof of telepathy (as I have done in the past), or astral projection, or a meeting with a higher-self, but how does that prove TP at all? All of those things were mentioned in thousands of books before TP.

I advise that you read TFOC. The logic in it is wrong, but there are some great chapters which highlight the need to question. If you don't understand why questioning things is so important, you could ask Tom himself, I'm sure he'll give you a better answer. The "Talking to fanatics" topic on the TFOC forum should also be of interest, in which you will understand my current predicament (couldn't resist sorry ).

This is truly closed-minded religious talk. Ignoring logic in favour of your own interpretations of experiences. I have come across many religious people whose sole reason for believing is that Jesus spoke to them. Nothing I argue will change their minds about their religion, not even logical arguments, since 'Jesus spoke to them'.

Yes, logic and intelligence (in fact, only intelligence, since it can derive logic) suffice to imagine new ideas, because they/it can operate on any set of abstract entities, such as numbers, and perform any logical operation on them, to produce any other abstract entity or a set of those as a result, the latter being able to represent a particular design or a mental construct (idea). Intelligence is necessary to control the process in order to achieve a desired result. A desired result can be anything and differ arbitrarily from the initial abstract entities. Anything includes something completely new.

Re-arranging numbers produces more numbers. The numbers might be able to represent things, but the G.I. wouldn't know this. The G.I. would have to already imagine the new thing that the numbers represent. Whatever it wanted the 'abstract entities' to represent would be something 'new' it had imagined.

Can anyone explain this? Surely the logic of such an evolved being should be a little better than that!

That's the problem of humanity. Coincidence and after coincidence? How many coincidence is required to convience you? What are the chances that it can happen like that?

You missed the point, bomo. According to Thao, telepathy itself should have proven to Michel that he wasn't hallucinating or dreaming. This is ridiculous, as far as I can tell. Have you never had a dream in which you were using telepahty?


I appreciate that some may want this forum to only be about experiences that suggest that TP is true, and no opposing views. Some people don't want to hear logical arguments against the book, preferring to believe that it is true. I am - in this topic - picking out parts of the book which are problematic. Actually, you may remember that I did this even when I fully believed it to be true .

Do you even admit the possibility that TP is not true?

I hope you will soon see how the advice to 'stop questioning' is very dangerous. Plus, remember that personal experience is more fallible and unreliable than logic.

'Believing is not enough... You need to Know'

With love

Meedan

[bomohwkl]

According to Thao, telepathy itself should have proven to Michel that he wasn't hallucinating or dreaming. This is ridiculous, as far as I can tell. Have you never had a dream in which you were using telepahty?

Exactly what happen to Micheal. He received a bruise from Thao when so many 'methods' failed. In what way that you think would be better for Micheal to know that he is not dreaming? Kick him until he bleeds as a friendly welcome? Some people might think that he would be dreaming too...... It is extremely difficult for human minds to understand something that they never come across and something that seems strange and out of ordinary. It would be like dreaming. It is important to look at Thao's perspective. What is the Thao's purpose? A lovingly welcome or to prove logically that he is not dreaming? So what Meedan would do if he is as evolved as Thao when coming to such situation? Can you find a better method that accord with the purposes of the universe in such situation?

Do you experience gravity?

It is what you understand from the experience which is important!!!! Have you missed it again? If you understand gravity, you can even predict the influence. If you understand gravity you can "generate" gravity or even neutralize it. If you understand force of electromagnetism, you can predict the bahaviour in a given situation and you even start to generate electric and magetic field in a controllable ways. If you understand normal human psychology, you can given predict their behaviour. You can predict your best friend behaviour because you come to understand him so well.

Well my friends i hope, you STOP questioning and START doing your own VERIFICATIONS with your MIND that is, hehehe

It is a self-contradicting sentence. When you want to verify something, you have a hypothesis that you want to test. The hypothesis might be the answer. You set up the experiment (life) and test the hypothesis. You might need to abandon the hypothesis when proven wrong or come up with a better or refining it again. And test it. Questions in mind=> hypothesis=>verification=>refinement (more specific questions)=> until we have satisified that you have found the truth. Life has strange ways to expose our weakness of our perceptions of life. That's the way I reach certain conclusions of several statements of Tom.

If you have a question, think out the possible answers and verify each one by one through life. That's why life is like an experiment for us to test our so-called hypothesis. That makes life sooo interesting. I am trying to find more energy to be awake to do different stuffs and to test my hypothesis......I observed a surge of my energy level when I realized that but I think my words have little impacts as I read that Tom had said that long time ago. Even I read it years ago, the understanding hasn't really filter through into my own perspective of my life. For the reason was at the moment I couldn't find enough examples/history of my own life that lead to the conclusion of it. Everyone need to find their own answers from their history of their life.By aiming for opportunities that can test the hypothesis is a great way of learning. You can even design your own life experiment to test your hypothesis. Fun! Fun! Fun!

[Vesko]

Meedan, you misunderstood Impalerr's post totally. He wrote: "why do you ppl always QUESTION, QUESTION, QUESTION". He urges only to stop being stuck at the questioning stage and make the next step to either prove or disprove what is questioned. He means that endless discussions alone do not suffice to prove or disprove those things.

[Meedan]

Exactly what happen to Micheal. He received a bruise from Thao when so many 'methods' failed. In what way that you think would be better for Micheal to know that he is not dreaming? Kick him until he bleeds as a friendly welcome? Some people might think that he would be dreaming too...... It is extremely difficult for human minds to understand something that they never come across and something that seems strange and out of ordinary. It would be like dreaming. It is important to look at Thao's perspective. What is the Thao's purpose? A lovingly welcome or to prove logically that he is not dreaming? So what Meedan would do if he is as evolved as Thao when coming to such situation? Can you find a better method that accord with the purposes of the universe in such situation?

I think you have misunderstood again bomo. I was just pointing out an unintelligent statement from Thao.

Here it is again:

How could I know? What I was hearing was so fantastic! Perhaps I was hallucinating; perhaps I had been drugged; perhaps I would soon ‘wake up’ in my very own bed? ‘No, Michel,’ interrupted Thao, reading my thoughts. ‘I wish you would stop doubting in this way. Telepathy itself should be enough to convince you.’

Michel experiencing telepathy does not prove that what Michel was experiencing wasn't a dream. Thao should have understood this. In fact, you could even say that it would have convinced him more that it was a dream. If you had a dream (partly lucid perhaps) in which you read the thoughts of one of your dream characters, would you then believe the dream was real?

It is what you understand from the experience which is important!!!! Have you missed it again?

Ok, what do you understand from it? Do you mean how you interpret it? Or what information you suddenly gain from it? It is not very reliable justification to believe something just because it seemed to 'come to you' while you were meditating etc... You will need to explain exactly what you mean, because right now it sounds vague and unreliable, but my mind is open.

Meedan, you misunderstood Impalerr's post totally. He wrote: "why do you ppl always QUESTION, QUESTION, QUESTION". He urges only to stop being stuck at the questioning stage and make the next step to either prove or disprove what is questioned. He means that endless discussions alone do not suffice to prove or disprove those things.

That's not what I see in Impalerr's post. Notice that it is only you that has put 'always' in bold. Notice that 'question' is in capitals. Notice that it says to 'stop questioning'. No doubt Impalerr will now say that it was what was meant, but if you re-read what was said objectively, there is a clear meaning there.

Obviously if that IS what Impalerr meant then, sorry for the misunderstanding, but a question still needs an answer. No questions I have asked here really require much more than a reasoned answer. It sounds like what you are saying is that only experiences can prove or disprove the book. ...And I know that Impalerr is talking about so-called 'spiritual' experiences, so how exactly can you disprove the book with those kind of experiences? It seems that waiting for 'spiritual' experiences is just waiting forever until you find that the book is true (no option that it is not true).

Don't forget that christians, muslims, etc.. have spiritual experiences that 'prove' that their religion is true, but only logic can argue against them.

[bomohwkl]

Michel experiencing telepathy does not prove that what Michel was experiencing wasn't a dream. Thao should have understood this. In fact, you could even say that it would have convinced him more that it was a dream. If you had a dream (partly lucid perhaps) in which you read the thoughts of one of your dream characters, would you then believe the dream was real?

I have answered your questions.

It is not very reliable justification to believe something just because it seemed to 'come to you' while you were meditating etc... You will need to explain exactly what you mean, because right now it sounds vague and unreliable, but my mind is open.

I have given you how to achieve the understanding with examples. Look carefully.

[Meedan]

I have answered your questions.

I have explained why your answers are missing the point. I'll explain again if you still don't understand:

How do I know this isn't a dream? We are using telepathy, that should convince you.

That answer makes it no more likely to be real whatsoever. Michel could easily have still been dreaming that he was communicating with telepathy. Telepathy doesn't even slightly suggest that it wasn't a dream. Please re-read that last sentence again.

This is what Thao was saying. This is very very poor logic. This is yet another unintelligent statement from the book.

[bomohwkl]

have explained why your answers are missing the point. I'll explain again if you still don't understand:

How do I know this isn't a dream? We are using telepathy, that should convince you.

That answer makes it no more likely to be real whatsoever. Michel could easily have still been dreaming that he was communicating with telepathy. Telepathy doesn't even slightly suggest that it wasn't a dream. Please re-read that last sentence again.

This is what Thao was saying. This is very very poor logic. This is yet another unintelligent statement from the book.

I have answered the question.

[Alisima]

I have answered your questions.

I have explained why your answers are missing the point. I'll explain again if you still don't understand:

How do I know this isn't a dream? We are using telepathy, that should convince you.

That answer makes it no more likely to be real whatsoever. Michel could easily have still been dreaming that he was communicating with telepathy. Telepathy doesn't even slightly suggest that it wasn't a dream. Please re-read that last sentence again.

This is what Thao was saying. This is very very poor logic. This is yet another unintelligent statement from the book.

So what if Michel DID dream. And in his dream he communicated with either his own higher self or a spiritual advanced being. Something like a vision of some sort.

It does not matter. The way the message is brought is not important. It is the message itself.

If you find things contradictive it is because you look for them.

[Yothu]

I'm willing to bet that you haven't had a single experience that proves that Thiaoouba Prophecy is true. You may think you have experienced proof of telepathy (as I have done in the past), or astral projection, or a meeting with a higher-self, but how does that prove TP at all? All of those things were mentioned in thousands of books before TP.

Oh, come on!

Only a blind person would question the eyesight of healthy people.
We as healthy people acknowledge the fact that we can perceive vibrations with our eyes that we call light (we can even define its spectrum) and hence colours, don't you agree?

As for me, I experienced telepathy before I even learned how to read. Since then I prove it daily to myself. Why don't you do it too? I bet you do but you don't want to accept it as a matter of "fact".

It's time to wake up.

It isn't about proving that "TP is true" or anything like that. Read TFOC again and you probably will understand the need to develop our intellect which can only be achieved through your very own individual effort.

Like Tom mentioned a thousand times before in the Reader's Forum: A "proof" can ONLY arise in an INDIVIDUAL'S OWN MIND. No one can understand anything FOR someone else, much like no one can learn to speak or walk for someone else.

If intellect is unwilling or unable to seek - no possibility of any proof exists for such an individual.

Please, let us let go our ego and pride for a minute and be humble


PS: I know who's going to be the first one to answer this post

[Meedan]

PS: I know who's going to be the first one to answer this post

Who?

So what if Michel DID dream. And in his dream he communicated with either his own higher self or a spiritual advanced being. Something like a vision of some sort.

It does not matter. The way the message is brought is not important. It is the message itself.

If you find things contradictive it is because you look for them.

I'm not saying it was a dream, but you're missing the point. Thao, is she supposed to be clever? Re-read the quote. Then maybe again. If you guys are 'missing the point' on purpose, to make me stop talking about this subject then...

I'm willing to bet that you haven't had a single experience that proves that Thiaoouba Prophecy is true. You may think you have experienced proof of telepathy (as I have done in the past), or astral projection, or a meeting with a higher-self, but how does that prove TP at all? All of those things were mentioned in thousands of books before TP.

Oh, come on!

Only a blind person would question the eyesight of healthy people.
We as healthy people acknowledge the fact that we can perceive vibrations with our eyes that we call light (we can even define its spectrum) and hence colours, don't you agree?

As for me, I experienced telepathy before I even learned how to read. Since then I prove it daily to myself. Why don't you do it too? I bet you do but you don't want to accept it as a matter of "fact".

You're missing the point of what I said too. None of the experiences that I listed above - even if they are true - prove that Thiaoouba Prophecy - specifically - is true. There have been hundreds of books written before TP that talk about all of those phenomena.

It's time to wake up.

It isn't about proving that "TP is true" or anything like that. Read TFOC again and you probably will understand the need to develop our intellect which can only be achieved through your very own individual effort.

Like Tom mentioned a thousand times before in the Reader's Forum: A "proof" can ONLY arise in an INDIVIDUAL'S OWN MIND. No one can understand anything FOR someone else, much like no one can learn to speak or walk for someone else.

If intellect is unwilling or unable to seek - no possibility of any proof exists for such an individual.

Please, let us let go our ego and pride for a minute and be humble

I recently found out that I had no good reason to believe that TP or TFOC is true. The main point of this topic is to ask what reason do you have for believing in them. Remember, a "proof" can ONLY arise in an INDIVIDUAL'S OWN MIND only because that individual has to understand the terms and the predicates of the proof (the chicken example). That quote does not mean that you should accept experiences of telepathy as proof for TP (I'm not saying you do).

Don't forget that christians, muslims, etc.. have spiritual experiences that 'prove' that their religion is true, but only logic can argue against them.