Liberation Not for Everyone??

[Alisima]

I have read in various spirituality books that people who suffer from a mental illness (like schizophrenia, multiple personality disorder, etc., etc.) should not attempt any meditation, out of body experiences, etc. Some people even exclude them from doing any lucid dreaming.

Is it true?? Is there no liberation for the mentally ill?? Then why?? Punishment as a result of negative karma??

Surely the conditions for the illness are created by themselves (by behaving bad in a previous life), but that means that a solution is very simple. Or perhapse it is similar to the albino, that mental illness is just an anomaly that should not have happened.

What do you think?

[Vesko]

I have read in various spirituality books that people who suffer from a mental illness (like schizophrenia, multiple personality disorder, etc., etc.) should not attempt any meditation, out of body experiences, etc. Some people even exclude them from doing any lucid dreaming.

Out of body experience and lucid dreaming can provoke uncontrollable bad mental experiences for such people. They are certainly bad for them. However, I do not understand the reason for advising against meditation. I'm sure meditation can help a lot in actually curing the mental problems. After all, a lot of mental problems stem from excessive anxiety and stress, and meditation combats those without the need for mental imagery or sensations. Could it be that such an advice against meditation stems from the fact that many people and professionals are ignorant about meditation and do not know what true meditation is? That it really does not involve neither imagery nor sound nor mental contemplation?

Is it true?? Is there no liberation for the mentally ill?? Then why?? Punishment as a result of negative karma??

Karma does not punish. It's just a blind law of cause and effect. But yes, that would be punishment in our human terms, or more exactly paying for what you have done against the laws of the universe. I think there is a genuine need for true meditation for such people. I would encourage psychiatrists to employ it as much as they can. So, in my view, there IS a liberation for the mentally ill.

Surely the conditions for the illness are created by themselves (by behaving bad in a previous life), but that means that a solution is very simple.

What do you mean by very simple? Mental illness has types and gradations ranging from very mild to extremely severe. Whether a solution is simple or not depends on the seriousness of the case.

Or perhapse it is similar to the albino, that mental illness is just an anomaly that should not have happened.

No, it definitely is not an anomaly. I don't expect God to have made more than a couple of errors . Without mental illness, karma will not be able to fully work against people going against Nature. Physical illness is not enough to cover all cases. Illness of the astral body is necessary to be possible, if there must be such a thing as a developed, illness-free astral body. BTW, illness of the brain falls in both the physical and mental illnesses category, because it is the interface between the astral body and the physical body. It is the computer keyboard, if you want.

Hope my 2c thoughts clarify things a bit.

[bomohwkl]

I had a chance of observing a "mentally" ill person. It all stems of his inability to control his own thoughts. Unstoppable streams of thoughts appreared in his mind due to hyperactivity. Drugs are used to suppress the thoughts making him like zombie. Unfortunately, the experimental drugs have taken toll of his much ability to rationalize and think logically. I still see that meditation can help his situation (I even suggested to him and I even gave him the freedom of choice book but he doesnt seem to understand or always misinterpret it) but his doctor threatens him to be sent to mental hospital if he didnt take the drugs. Spiralling downward.....

[Alisima]

What do you mean by very simple?

Well, you gave the answer yourself.

So, in my view, there IS a liberation for the mentally ill.

I think it is true that self-realization is the most important ingredient for overcoming serious mental illness. However, we all know how haunting a nightmare can be. So the mentally ill may perhapse not value self-realization and choose something else. To run away for instance.

In fact, most people prefer to run away. I see it constantly around me.

I now realize, while typing, than there is no shortcut to liberation. That reading a spiritual book or attending a workshop is not a step closer to liberation, it just satisfies the mind. It is us who choose to read the book so it is us who takes a step closer to liberation. Not because we read the book but because we choose to read it.

Like the saying goes: "A master will appear when the student is ready."

I guess the mentally ill are not ready then.

[Kestrel]

This is a very good topic for discussion.

If what is true about whats stated in the book that individuals get advanced notice of certin things, in their lifes preview. Then perhaps its a very hard lesson, being mentally ill. Its obviously a result of physical errors resulting in both physical and mental difficulties. Weather at birth or later in a persons life, I think that they would see it.

In the United States 8 Million children are treated for Attention Deficit Disorder and Attention Deficit Hyperactivty Disorder, with Ritalin and other similar drugs. When I was younger, I was also "treated" (erm yeah )
Its an intresting experince, I'de never been so angry as I had been under the influnce of this [ritalin], and yes zombie like indeed. Its so supressive, why do people think that supressing things is so great? You're not acutally dealing with the problem you're just delaying it. Perhaps the medical community looks at it from all the wrong perspectives. Then again, what are their motives ? Oh I can figure that out can't you $$

I can tell you that I have "ADD" and also, I've told people that its a skill rather then a "disorder" thats because I've learned that its just probally a tool that I can use to encourage me to wonder why, encourage me to think ect. Hmm, never worded it like that before but I think thats a good discription.

Rather then opressing some minor problems, its better to step up and learn to take advantage of certain things.

However, I know were talking more sever here. I simply think its a very difficult lesson, that they've choosen. Perhaps its ignorant to think that. However, I think that their astral body would be just as capable as any other individauals. However, I cannot assume anything in such a case this is the problem. You can't generalize and comment on thoughts about a entire group of people since their all individauls.

Also another thought is that other individuals can be effected by a mentally retarted person, for instance if you have a mentally retarted child, you will be forced to look at things from a difrent aspect. These people are brilliant in their own way, they cannot even ratlionalize enough to create prejudice in their own mind, its a quality I admire

Anyways, just ask you'rselfs lots of questions about it and type what you think. I think its a great topic though perhaps we may realize something new.

[Vesko]

Very interesting, Kestrel. ADHD (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder) can definitely mean that one is concerned about different or more things than survival necessities or what is drummed into him/her by the "authorities". Once one is more oriented though and has explored the different options and has chosen worthwhile activities to commit to, it should naturally subside. What do you think?

As for the medicines you mentioned, I have noticed that our so-called medicine is mostly about suppression of the symptoms. It's horrible how many people are depressed, but it's even more horrible to suppress this all the time with medications without addressing the real problems. People need love and worthwhile goals to aspire to, not suppression.

[Kestrel]

It may be a bit off topic, however browsing the dictionary I found a great word.

"palliate • \PAL-ee-ayt\ • verb
1 : to reduce the violence of (a disease); also : to ease (symptoms) without curing the underlying disease
*2 : to cover by excuses and apologies
3 : to moderate the intensity of"

Its not a concidence in my mind Vesko. This is just a symtom of living on an extreeme material side of life, where people are recgonized as mere profit possibilitys. I've come to a scary realization, that every aspect of ones exsistance in my country is regulated by money. It dosent stop, it keeps going. You're sick, its a buisness not compassion overall its a buisness. You want to learn (sometimes usless) knowelge, its a buisness. Police, to protect and serve they say, they forgot to mention violations = profit. I just want to point out that this could be one reason for the just vast numbers of depression vesko. This is one reason that the various churches use too in some form.

Medical research is just another comdity. They always seem to rush them, to completion too creating new perscriptions which always come back 1 year down the road causing more problems in the user then orignally. Thats okay though, they will just sell you some more. I understand the purpose of money somewhat to mantain power. Hmmm it just seems so forigen to me.

Well as for you're comments on ADD, it would sound logical but im not sure. I have only studied it abit. Theres many diffrent types actually. So in all reality I think it might be more then one type of condition.

[Vesko]

Sorry, I wrote my previous post a bit terse, of course some, or perhaps most, of the types must be clearly serious disease.

[Kestrel]

Yeah, we can't just brush it off as a result of certain things, I am sure its something much deeper. Thats obviously not being adressed properly.