Working Too Much for a Living?

[Vesko]

Moderator note: This discussion continues from the topic "Love and Forgive" in the "Spirituality in Relationships" forum.

I believe that most of the times they work too much. Yes they try to sustain the family and on but they end up losing the point and not being able to meet the treasures that children have.

Aptly said.

When they come from work of course they feel exhausted.. It is natural.. you can't spend so much time working and then have power to do anything else....

I think we are working too many hours in general, but that for certain people 10 hours of work a day are not much if those 10 hours are spent doing work with a higher purpose. From my personal experience, it is possible to have much energy at the end of the day after having worked for 8 hours + 2 hours on average to go to and get back from work, if you have positive thoughts all through the day and are happy about what you are doing -- something that seldom happens on a normal job, because almost all companies, and all the large ones, are concerned only about maximum profit, not the happiness of the employees. I say the last sentence again.

Some time I ago, I did some simple maths based on the following passage from the chapter "The First Man on Earth":

'All of this occurred, in spite of all the warnings they had received. It should be said that before this almost total decimation, both the black race and the yellow race had attained a very high level of technological advance. The people lived in great comfort. They worked in factories, private and government enterprises, offices -- just as happens now on your planet.'
'They had a strong devotion to money which, to some, meant power and to others, wiser, it meant well-being. They worked an average 12 hours per week. On Bakaratini a week comprises six days of 21 hours each. They tended to the material rather than the spiritual side of their existence. At the same time, they allowed themselves to be duped and led in circles by a structure of politicians and bureaucrats, exactly as is happening now on Earth. Leaders fool the masses with empty words and, motivated by greed and pride, they 'lead' entire nations towards their downfall.'

Our week has 168 hours, and on average, and required by law, we work 40 hours per week. Then:

40 / 168 = 23.8%
12 / 126 = 9.5%

The good thing is that from those unitless percentages we can find out that we work 23.8 divided by 9.4 = 2.5 times more than the Bakaratinians did, yet they managed to live in at least the same comfort despite being materialistic. We've screwed up big time on Earth then, friends, big time... Someone up there that we've elected, or so it seems, is living too well at our expense because most of us have been conditioned that life is naturally hard and that one must work so much as not to even start considering things apart from mere material existence, not to mention taking Michel's book seriously. I think that the inclusion of those numbers in the book has one reason: to enlighten us that we can spend considerably less time tending to our material existence, and yet enjoying no less than what we currently enjoy. An important thinly veiled lesson in the book!

[Leventis]

I hate writting small stuff but what can I do :p
I have noticed that when I meditate I get to have more endurance and be more energetic. I don't get as tired and I even sleep less....


Unfortunatelly I have been conditioned too to believe in the materalistic things. I often think of them but thank God after a while I realise that I am thinking of stupid things and that they don't even make sense. Money is created in order to enslave our bodies and sometimes brain/spirituality. Just imagine for a second working spirtually as much as you work.. 40hrs/week average. Imagine the benefits we could get from that

[Vesko]

I hate writting small stuff but what can I do :p

This is no small stuff.

I have noticed that when I meditate I get to have more endurance and be more energetic. I don't get as tired and I even sleep less....

True. I wonder how much they need to sleep.

Unfortunatelly I have been conditioned too to believe in the materalistic things. I often think of them but thank God after a while I realise that I am thinking of stupid things and that they don't even make sense. Money is created in order to enslave our bodies and sometimes brain/spirituality. Just imagine for a second working spirtually as much as you work.. 40hrs/week average. Imagine the benefits we could get from that

We live in a materialistic society, and it is no surprise that we spend doing predominantly material activities in our jobs. But by altering certain goals and activities in our jobs or changing jobs altogether (yes, I think that certain jobs can never become more spiritual -- how do you become more spiritual through bartending if bars are all about materialism?), it is possible to get the mentioned benefits, and even more, from work alone.

[Cezyl]

Everything can be done in a more loving way. You can love your customers, even when serving them drinks, and remember that the drinks you serve are made of the all that is, as are all things. Everything can be done more spiritually, for everthing is a part of the All.


Cezyl

[Vesko]

You are correct, Cezyl. I should say that I think certain jobs can never become significantly more spiritual, because they impose a natural limit on the applicability of spirituality in them. I also don't really want to say that one cannot advance spiritually through doing such a job, but what I'm sure is that spiritual development will generally be slower, because such a job forces you to do a greater amount of and spend more time performing material activities that do not help the mind.

[Marcus]

Our week has 168 hours, and on average, and required by law, we work 40 hours per week. Then:

40 / 168 = 23.8%
12 / 126 = 9.5%

The good thing is that from those unitless percentages we can find out that we work 23.8 divided by 9.4 = 2.5 times more than the Bakaratinians did, yet they managed to live in at least the same comfort despite being materialistic. We've screwed up big time on Earth then, friends, big time... Someone up there that we've elected, or so it seems, is living too well at our expense because most of us have been conditioned that life is naturally hard and that one must work so much as not to even start considering things apart from mere material existence, not to mention taking Michel's book seriously. I think that the inclusion of those numbers in the book has one reason: to enlighten us that we can spend considerably less time tending to our material existence, and yet enjoying no less than what we currently enjoy. An important thinly veiled lesson in the book!

This should deserve it's own thread because of it's importance to our society.

Here at work there is a man who combines his current job as a planner with his primary job of enlightening people on spiritual matters. Just Monday we were talking when his boss scolds him for not planning
Needless to say, he has indeed made me think

[VeskoP]

This should deserve it's own thread because of it's importance to our society.

Yes, thank you. This post and all the posts above it have been moved to the new topic you are currently reading.

[bomohwkl]

I couldnt agree more. We have been working over-time leaving most of us exhausted in particular in fear of job security.
However, we need not to work harder and longer because of the fear, rather the joy of developing and improving certain skills through oppurtunies presented by the job.

[Marcus]

I have accepted a job within the company I work for that has less hours. Of course this means less money. I have a child on the way and in the grander scheme of things, time spent with ones child is far more important than working the extra 10 or so hours a week I am doing now.

I'm convinced the role of the Father is just as important as the role of the Mother and being away from home 12 hours a day just doesn't cut it

[Leventis]

job security is just an illusion.. You might end up being 45 and not be able to work any where else and the one you were working to fire you...

Although I am not a father yet I agree with you marcus. Both of the parents are really important for the childs development and if you expect them to be connected with you. There case that both parents work and the kids don't even listen to them. They might listen to the baby sitter but not to their parents.. Don't let the connection get lost along the way.

[bomohwkl]

Let's assume that we are not trying to live in a cave or in a monastry environment.

The love of money is the root of all evil and yet the lack of money is the root of all suffering

How irony!!!!

After much thinking and self-reflection, I think we are kind of born to be "slave" of money except the very few. The whole template of "working hard" and "saving as much as you can" in order to escape from such slavery are kind of out of date. Again this is the template of most people (the wiser one) follows.

Our current educational system focuses on preparing today's youth to get good jobs by developing scholastic skills. Their life revolve around thier wages.

Then they got married. Get mortages and kids. The fear of losing the job and the need to provide proper shelter and future education of their children propel the parents to work harder. The need to save enough for retirement is another factor for parents to work harder in order to get pay raise. These is most unfortunate problem faced by poor and middle class people.No doubt that they are hard working people. A trap has set in. I think I am in the trap and I wonder how to escape from such trap. My guy feeling tells me that creativity and lateral thinking are needed to get out of trap. Just wonder.....think and think..... Just wonder what are the other working people opinion. Spirituality always taught us to shun away from money. I think it is just impossible. A healthy spirituality should embrace it as it is part of the working mechanism of the world. It is easier to change our mentality than to change the whole system.

[Alisima]

The love of money is the root of all evil and yet the lack of money is the root of all suffering

It is incorrect, whoever said it. Because selfishness is the root of all sufferings.

After much thinking and self-reflection, I think we are kind of born to be "slave" of money except the very few.

No, all who are slaves are slaves to their own imagination.

The whole template of "working hard" and "saving as much as you can" in order to escape from such slavery are kind of out of date. Again this is the template of most people (the wiser one) follows.

Our current educational system focuses on preparing today's youth to get good jobs by developing scholastic skills. Their life revolve around thier wages.

I think it is very logical for any society to promote working. How else can their be food?? Someone HAS to do something in order to survive. That is called working. Period.

Then they got married. Get mortages and kids. The fear of losing the job and the need to provide proper shelter and future education of their children propel the parents to work harder. The need to save enough for retirement is another factor for parents to work harder in order to get pay raise. These is most unfortunate problem faced by poor and middle class people.No doubt that they are hard working people.

Again these people are subjected to their own ideas. And therefor start to work more. When you want a big car, you need to work. If you don't want to work, no big car. In both scenerios you just have to accept the bad with the good. If you want something, you have to do something. It is that simple.

A trap has set in. I think I am in the trap and I wonder how to escape from such trap. My guy feeling tells me that creativity and lateral thinking are needed to get out of trap. Just wonder.....think and think..... Just wonder what are the other working people opinion.

Thinking won't change anything.

Spirituality always taught us to shun away from money.

And for good reasons too. Not that money is bad or something, or that one should stop using it, that is ***.

A healthy spirituality should embrace it as it is part of the working mechanism of the world. It is easier to change our mentality than to change the whole system.

Then change it.

[trumpet_is_cool]

How irony!!!!

After much thinking and self-reflection, I think we are kind of born to be "slave" of money except the very few. The whole template of "working hard" and "saving as much as you can" in order to escape from such slavery are kind of out of date.

Without money you have also to work hard to build a house, collect food, store wood and food to survive the winter etc....The money isn`t the problem, it is the way how it is used to supress the peoples. If we wouldn`t have money we would trade with other goods and there would be again rich and poor peoples...There is nothing wrong with the money but with the attitude of the (rich) peoples who can`t get enough of it...With what right earns a manager or superstar up to millions of dollars and an employee has to work hard to earn enough money to be able to live ?? The system is wrong, not the money itself, it doesn`t matter if we trade with bananas,pearls,rice or money...

That`s just my opinon

[Vesko]

Of course, ultimately it depends on us how to use resources, money or not, and we can use them in a good way or a bad way. But I think that money does have serious undesirable qualities in comparison with barter. A reason money is evil is because it can be produced without having to relate to any existing good or product. This is an additional very convenient way to crook the economy in comparison with a barter, so a monetary economy can be said to be extra susceptible to abuse.

In any economy, there does not have to be poor people, again it depends only on how the resources are used, considering that nature provides enough for everyone.

So called "stars" indeed do not deserve the millions they get, because society does not have a corresponding benefit from them.

[bomohwkl]

trumpet_is_cool wrote

...With what right earns a manager or superstar up to millions of dollars and an employee has to work hard to earn enough money to be able to live ??

That's could well be the reason why young kids don't like education in UK. It is all about fame and power. Can't blame them. That's how the society works. No doubt they are smarter than the teachers by recognizing the reality.

trumpet_is_cool wrote

The money isn`t the problem, it is the way how it is used to supress the peoples

Hmmmm....what happen if people use it to supress themselves even without consciously knowing it? It is a common belief that rich people gets rich by taking advantage of other people. What happen if such assumption is not wholefully correct? Wouldn't it defer you from being able to achieve financially self-reliance? Wouldn't you cut yourself of being financially literate? Couldn't you use your financial literacy to increase your time for spiritual development in future? Early retirement perhaps? Of course, financial freedom doesn't make sense if it is not used to accelarate spiritual development. Can I say that?


Vesko wrote

So called "stars" indeed do not deserve the millions they get, because society does not have a corresponding benefit from them.

Benefits? As it is peceived by minority of us here or majority of people? It is an entertainment at least to majority of people. An human generated illusion at large. A very clever one.