A Wonderful Site about Awareness, Ego, Mind and False ID

[Bastian]

I don't think good looks, smarts, and charisma are needs for survival [..] People want those qualities because the perception is if you have them they we lead to better social interactions and status and therefore brings about a more happiness

Yes I agree with you, I think we are terribly deluded in thinking that these (mostly) material matters will bring about lasting happiness. Perhaps there is some element of 'survival' mentality going on their also, particularly the competitive behaviour that can go along with these.. and they are all very much centered around selfish-desire..

[Bastian]

Have you ever been EXTREMLY hateful?? If you have then you propably noticed that underneath this hate there flows EXACTLY the same energy as when you where deep in love. So somehow this energy, when present, gets to be labeled as love, and in a different scenario it is labeled as hate.

I don't think they share exactly the same energy. Strong hate and strong love may have some things that appear similar when analysed superficially - such as: intense emotion, intense desire (in which case I could ask is that really love), a strong energy, and a strong desire to act on the emotion -- so yes in this way I think I can see how they could seem to share the same energy. However these emotions are expressed in such radically different ways - eg: With love we wish to nurture and help others. Yet with hate we wish to destroy, and abandon others. One seems creative, the other seems destructive. So, then I would ask if the 'direction' of the energy was the opposite.

True love seems directed towards benefiting others, whilst hate seems to flow the other way??

If anyone found that love and hate had exactly the same kind of energy underneath then I would wonder that perhaps it just seems the same due to our poor ability to analyse them. Perhaps the fact that there is an intense energy involved in both cases leading the observer to think that this energy is EXACTLY the same.. Blinded by its intensity ??

[Bastian]

When someone is one with the divine, he/she and the divine are the same thing. So, they are the divine.

Some people go so far as saying that since I am from the Creator and I am a part of the Creator, therefore "I am the Creator".

It is a bit like comparing a leaf to a tree, the leaf is 'at one' with the tree because it becomes a part of the same entity. Yet if the leaf said "I am the tree" then I would think it absurd.. rather it should say "I am a part of a tree". And if the leaf becomes useless and diseased then it will naturally fall from the tree and die.

Or to put it another way.. To say that "I am the divine" to me seems like a pebble saying "I am the planet". Or a grain of sand saying "I am the beach".

[Alisima]

Sometimes a murderer is more saint then a saint, and a saint more a murderer then a murderer. But it DOES matter what you do!! The whole article is about your misidentification with your mind/soul/bla/bla.

I'd like to go back to this point, I think I understand your point about the saint and murderer, but your point about it mattering what you do seems to contradict some of your other statements

You pointed out to Robanan that it doesn't matter if you misidentify with your ego, living a lie isn't something to worry about (no negative consequences), so if living a lie and living in Truth don't matter therefore it doesn't matter what you do

It all depends on the context in which you use it. Sometimes it doesn't matter what you do, sometimes it does. Say you want to travel to Iceland, and you took a plane to Irak, well THAT matters. As in, it won't get you were you want to go. But if you don't care to which country you go, it doesn't matter which plane you take.

Yes, they do say that. I myself said somewhere else that we are already enlightened. We simply don't realise it. Or you could say, we have 'lost' it.

I remember you saying somewhere else that you didn't like the fact that TFOC and TP tell people to change their ways and go along a spiritual path and that is wrong simply because there is no path to enlightenment, were already enlightened but have lost it

If we have lost it, then we can regain it, and in order to regain it don't we have aim for it, isn't that what Buddha did?

Yes that is what Buddha did. But do you also know at what point he finally reach enlightenment?? It was at a point where he gave up and went to sleep.

In the East there has been, and still is, a very old discussion about whether enlightenment happens through effort or through non-effort. Some say you have to give it all you got, and others say that you don't have to do anything, in fact, the less the better. And still others say that first you have to do all, and at last you have to do nothing. But what is best??

First you have to understand that whatever I say, or anyone else for that matter, isn't the truth. It all depends on what angle you are looking from. So yes, one needs to work hard for enlightenment, and at the same time, one has to do ABSOLUTELY nothing.

Second, what is enlightenment?? It is some sort of understanding, some sort of mental clarity?? Or has it got something to do with the metaphysical?? It is very difficult, if not impossible to explain.

I believe enlightenment is when you are free of falsities. What falsities?? That totally depends on the person.

It won't happen spontaneously nor will it happen by just observing/detachment, understanding your thoughts and feeling are important right?

Well, there have been people who reached enlightenment in a matter of seconds. Or should I say milliseconds. Enlightenment isn't learning, it is unlearning.

You are right. But what words are there left to use?? Can't use God, can't use Divine, can't use Absolute, because ALL are concepts of the mind. But then, how can I explain it?? Obviously, I have to use words. This is the word I choose to use. Words are very limited. I hope we both agree on that.

I think the concept (If I can call it that) of awareness is limiting not just in words to describe it but also because it doesn't explain much, it doesn't explain why there is a universe, and because it can't answer questions like that it doesn't satisfy peoples mind

I never met someone who could explain to me why there is a universe. If only met people who have fancy theories which, upon close examination, fall apart. I want people to discard all knowledge, because it propably came from someone else, and start a TRUE search for the holy grail ON THERE OWN. There is noone who can explain it to you, there is no book which holds intricate knowledge of the universe. You need to do it on your own. And that is, you guessed it, with awareness.

On the other hand TP & TFOC at least try to answer questions like why is there a universe and what purpose does it serve and are therefore more satisfying to the majority of people on this forum (I think)

Yes because most of them (my former self included) want brain-food.

Tom pointed out the limits and contradiction that non-duality bring about

Key to the One? (pt. 1 & 2)
http://bioresonant.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.c ... 7619277604

Ofcourse there are contradictions, but that is because we still are in a dualistic frame of mind.

Hate gets suppressed because people over time have realized that hate doesn't lead anywhere, not to progress, but to more hate

And love does lead to progess?? Do I need to remind you that in times of war the economy actually increases. And most technology is created due to war. So I would say war is actually more productive then love. People in love generally lie in bed, and are, like the proverb goes, "blind".

I am not saying we should all be hateful though.

Love is the opposite, it's a different emotion than hate, you can love something as passionately as you can hate something as passionately, but they’re still different

Love is better than hate because love brings about happiness, hate doesn't

Love and hate go hand in hand. One is not better than the other. Without hate no love and without love no hate. They depend on each other (dualism).

About the needs arising for survival, I don't think good looks, smarts, and charisma are needs for survival

You bet they do. Ask a girl why she puts up make up. She will avoid the question probably and give a unuseful answer, but keep asking. It is the same reason why most animals in nature show unusual behavior when it is mating time. The female wants the best genes for her offspring, and ofcourse someone to pay the rent. It actually all boils down to survival.

And isn't that what society teaches us?? For instance: "You have to get good grades otherwise you won't earn enough money." We are brainwashed. And they did a pretty good job.

People want those qualities because the perception is if you have them they we lead to better social interactions and status and therefore brings about a more happiness

And what is the general idea about a better social status?? Think about it.

Today's society is not just about survival, it's also about quality of life, and technology is supposed to help us in this regard

I even dare to say that most people search for enlightenment is due to survival issues.