What is Happiness?

[bomohwkl]

What is happiness and how do you think you are going to achieve it? Why do you choose this method? Opinions welcome.

[Alisima]

What is happiness?? That is a good question. While we are at it, lets also discuss sadness, because, from my experience, both are interconnected.

Can you imagine being at the beach and watching the sea?? You see her going up and down. Then you can easily imagine that without going up, the sea can't get down. It would be at one level, and there would be no movement.

Same to happiness and sadness, both need eachother to exist. Sadly, we humans, in order to make distinction between the two states, have, wrongfully, mislabel one as being good and the other as being bad. In such a way that the whole society wants happiness and denies sadness.

What we don't understand is that in choosing happiness we automatically choose sadness along with it. However, we only want happiness, so when we get sadness, which always turns up on the end, we start desiring more happiness, which, ofcourse, brings us to more sadness. This cycle goes on, and on forever. And I think it explains much about today's behavior and the 'never enough'-philosophy. ('we' here is referring to the 'modern man', nothing personal.)

I recall a piece of the great movie 'Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas', where Johnny Depp, after losing a game, said to himself: "No, I have got to enjoy loosing.' Brilliant.

In order to end this cycle of happiness-sadness we need to dismantle the misplaced label 'good' of happiness and the label 'bad' of sadness and stop treating them as opposites. We need to plunge into our sadness and realise that without sadness we are nothing. Ofcourse the cycle happiness-sadness will still continue, but without us clinging to one or the other we will arrive at a much more 'stable' state in where we are, without being either happy or sad. Ofcourse this is not easy to understand, only personal experience will help you. And sadness.

So, I don't try to achieve happiness at all. Neither am I supressing sadness, it, just like happiness, comes and goes on its own accord.

Just like a child who plays with his toys. He doesn't play because that will make him happy, he plays because he plays. And THAT makes him happy.

Why did I choose this method?? Well, because all other method are based upon the assumption that happiness is somehow better, or higher than sadness.

[JT]

I think happiness is the absence of sadness and vice-versa. I think we can achieve "happiness" by eliminating the negative or potentially negative things in our lives as much as we can.

I try and take care in who I surround myself with. I try to avoid negativity and people who seem to enjoy being negative. Sadness is difficult to avoid at times, such as when you lose a loved one. Actually finding happiness after something like this is quite a challenge. Part of it is not fighting it and accepting it. Negativity, anger, jealousy, hate, etc. will keep happiness at bay.

[InfoSource]

Here a website with a good list quotes and definitions dealing with what is happiness

http://www.thehappyguy.com/definition-of-happiness.html

What we don't understand is that in choosing happiness we automatically choose sadness along with it. However, we only want happiness, so when we get sadness, which always turns up on the end, we start desiring more happiness, which, ofcourse, brings us to more sadness. This cycle goes on, and on forever. And I think it explains much about today's behavior and the 'never enough'-philosophy. ('we' here is referring to the 'modern man', nothing personal.)

I agree about there being a never enough philosophy in today's world, and that can lead to a lot of greed for wealth and material goods, along with envy/jealously of those who appear to be happier and higher up than you but I disagree about happiness and sadness going hand in hand or for that matter opposites needing each other

Alisima you've seem to say that opposites are equal in value (love/hate, happiness/sadness, etc.) which is dualism, well okay, but this only works sometimes

for instance leadership vs. followers, both depend on each other so that ideology works here

but lets use another example

Freedom vs. Oppression,

I'm talking totalitarian regimes vs. democratic ones, you can use one to define the other but are you honestly going to say they depend on each or one isn't better than the other?

If you do see them as equal in value then you got one potential dangerous ideology

One other thing is you mention in another thread that hate is more productive than love (example given wars), If we look at progress as economical and technology wise than your right, but I look at progress as the betterment of peoples lives in a given community, and for those people involved indirectly or directly during a war, well then they certainty aren't progressing

As for a method for attaining happiness I'd go for spiritual development which is to say what Bomohwkl said in another thread, the development of the mind (left AND right brain) through the means of meditation, self-discipline, observing, and gaining knowledge plus having the abilities to astral project and lucid dream control so I can learn and practice in different environments

[Alisima]

Here a website with a good list quotes and definitions dealing with what is happiness

http://www.thehappyguy.com/definition-of-happiness.html

What we don't understand is that in choosing happiness we automatically choose sadness along with it. However, we only want happiness, so when we get sadness, which always turns up on the end, we start desiring more happiness, which, ofcourse, brings us to more sadness. This cycle goes on, and on forever. And I think it explains much about today's behavior and the 'never enough'-philosophy. ('we' here is referring to the 'modern man', nothing personal.)

I agree about there being a never enough philosophy in today's world, and that can lead to a lot of greed for wealth and material goods, along with envy/jealously of those who appear to be happier and higher up than you but I disagree about happiness and sadness going hand in hand or for that matter opposites needing each other

Alisima you've seem to say that opposites are equal in value (love/hate, happiness/sadness, etc.) which is dualism, well okay, but this only works sometimes

for instance leadership vs. followers, both depend on each other so that ideology works here

but lets use another example

Freedom vs. Oppression,

I'm talking totalitarian regimes vs. democratic ones, you can use one to define the other but are you honestly going to say they depend on each or one isn't better than the other?

We are born democrats, so it is logical for us to disgard everything which isn't. Same as it is for totalitarian regimes. One could not say one is better than the other, because one is biased.

There is no freedom in a democratic regime and there is no oppression in a totalitarian regime. Or differently put, there is as much oppression in a democratic regime as in a totalitarian, and as much as freedom in a totalitarian regime as in a democratic.

It is a different way of running a country. Both with different results. Sometimes a democratic-based regime is good, and sometimes a totalitarian-based regime is good.

But there is one problem. Democratic regimes and totalitarian regimes are NOT things on there own. They are composed of SMALLER pieces. It is not that democrats rely on toralitarians, but the smaller pieces they both contain which rely on each other.

You are collapsing many levels into thinking that democrats vs. totalitarians equals happiness vs. sadness. That is simply not the case. Happiness and sadness are INNER values. While democratic ideas and totalitarian ideas, are not inner, but outer.

If you wish to see how democratic and totalitarion ideas are intertwined, you need to look at the smaller pieces of which they both exist. This far more complex than simple happiness and sadness.

In order for me to propely explain why democratic-based and totalitarian-based regimes depend on each other I need to do months of research to fully understand how they operate and need to write a 10+ page article about it. And still it would contain flaws.

I have no such intensions. For it is YOU yourself who can come to the same conclusion by watching your INNER world.

Once you understand that, you have understood the whole outer world too.

Do not try to test my ideology for you are in the wrong frame of mind to appreciate it. It would not work. Hehe, it already has not worked.

Leave the intellectual idea's behind and start working from the inside.

If you do see them as equal in value then you got one potential dangerous ideology

Yes, this is the same reason why many people, including jesus, have been punished. Because it LOOKS dangerous. While in fact there is nothing to be afraid of.

One other thing is you mention in another thread that hate is more productive than love (example given wars), If we look at progress as economical and technology wise than your right, but I look at progress as the betterment of peoples lives in a given community, and for those people involved indirectly or directly during a war, well then they certainty aren't progressing

You need to focus on times AFTER war. After a good fight, people realise what or who they love and start appreciating it again. You can see it in many husbands-housewives relationships. They fight, and then they love.

[Yothu]

There is no freedom in a democratic regime and there is no oppression in a totalitarian regime. Or differently put, there is as much oppression in a democratic regime as in a totalitarian, and as much as freedom in a totalitarian regime as in a democratic.

I invite you to check out Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's book "The Gulag Archipelago".
You needn't write a ten pages+ essay and it is no ten months work of research. Just read it on a few rainy afternoons.

You need to focus on times AFTER war. After a good fight, people realise what or who they love and start appreciating it again. You can see it in many husbands-housewives relationships. They fight, and then they love.

Comparing "husbands-housewives-relationships" with a post-war scenario is more than euphemistic. Such a collective trauma like the past two world wars have a much deeper and enlongated impact on many aspects of human life than a couple having a marital row IMHO.

[Alisima]

I invite you to check out Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's book "The Gulag Archipelago".
You needn't write a ten pages+ essay and it is no ten months work of research. Just read it on a few rainy afternoons.

Well, I am going to order it. And read it. Don't think it will change my point of view though. But I can give it a try.

Comparing "husbands-housewives-relationships" with a post-war scenario is more than euphemistic. Such a collective trauma like the past two world wars have a much deeper and enlongated impact on many aspects of human life than a couple having a marital row IMHO.

I was not comparing the "husbands-housewives-relationship" with a post war scenario. I was comparing the husbands-housewives-relationship with the war-peace-relationship. There is a big difference in that.

[Yothu]

Well, I am going to order it. And read it. Don't think it will change my point of view though. But I can give it a try.

You won't regret it. It is a fine piece of work that has captured a captivating episode of our history. (of course I'm not russian, what I am saying is more: "World-history".)

I was not comparing the "husbands-housewives-relationship" with a post war scenario. I was comparing the husbands-housewives-relationship with the war-peace-relationship. There is a big difference in that.

Yes. // The word "Husbands-housewives relationship" you came up with is cute. I do like it much!

What you mean is a positive outcome in the end, right? A man appreciates his peace only when it is already gone.

[Alisima]

What you mean is a positive outcome in the end, right? A man appreciates his peace only when it is already gone.

Not necessarily positive but more like the eternal change. From left to right, and back to left again.

The breath of the universe as one might call it.

[bomohwkl]

Finding Flow: The Psychology of Engagement With Everyday Life (Masterminds Series) (Paperback).
Is it the path of happiness?

Check out
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... 2?v=glance

The more I delve into spirituality, happiness and self-actualisation, the more I see it is a very complex and dynamic system if one wants to get all of the three areas.

[Lena]

here is my personal story about finding happiness:

A couple years ago I was very depressed, even suicidal at times. I was cutting myself. as soon as I got out of my controlling middle school I was finally able to quit cutting and I gradually became less depressed. however, I was still having problems last year so I decided to no longer strive to be happy, but aim for spirituality instead. I started coming off my anti-depressant and over time I realised I don't have to choose between spirituality and happiness because spirituality IS happiness. now I don't take any drugs or medication and I am the happiest I've ever been. I have a better understanding of the universe and myself. before I thought ignorance was bliss, but I was far from blissfull. now I know truth and I am happy.

[Bastian]

A couple years ago I was very depressed, even suicidal at times. I was cutting myself. as soon as I got out of my controlling middle school I was finally able to quit cutting and I gradually became less depressed.

I think in Australia instead of 'Middle School' we say 'High School' ? [.. ..OK, I looked it up just now and 'Middle School' is the first three years of what we call 'High School']

Anyway, like you I had some pretty depressing years in high school as there were a number of sadistic people in both the schools that I attended.

When I finally finished my High School years and attended a tertiary school .. there I found a great deal of happiness! The people at my university were (in general) so kind, and so very different from the folk in my high school.

In High School I was forced to go to school and associate with sadistic, cruel hearted people. It was like being in a jail. Even the windows had bars!. Life was bleak, pointless and without joy.. and when there is little or no joy in life then it becomes difficult to see the point in living.

While I was in high school I felt that adults somehow didn't quite appreciate just how cruel children can be too each other. Nor did they comprehend that if they as adults were being treated the way some of these children were treated, then they too might be driven to the brink of suicide. I assert that children are not all born as 'little angels' as so many naive people would believe. Far from it, some children are sadistic from a very early age - as I have seen with my own eyes. When I do see this really physically violent and sadistic behaviour in children, it is usually in boys.. even as young as six or seven!

In university I was free to choose what classes I attended, free to leave, free to choose who I associated with, and what a difference it made! Freedom of choice certainly made a difference here compared with experience in high school . The amount of work I had to do at university was far greater and more difficult than in high school but it didn't matter because there were so many kind people there.

[Bastian]

now I don't take any drugs or medication and I am the happiest I've ever been. I have a better understanding of the universe and myself. before I thought ignorance was bliss, but I was far from blissfull. now I know truth and I am happy.

Like you I was placed on medication previously and also became very depressed. However in my case the medication I took was for severe inflammation. The depression came after I left university and as my immune disorder degenerated and brought a great deal of pain. Eventually I learned to control my disease through following a restricted diet, and finally the sun was shining in my life again (The dietary restriction was far more effective than powerful anti-inflammatory drugs)

[Bastian]

So, I don't try to achieve happiness at all. Neither am I supressing sadness, it, just like happiness, comes and goes on its own accord.

Not at all, as I have said in my previous two posts the amount of happiness or sadness in my life is resultant from my experiences.. and also influenced by the degree of freedom I am given, my choices, and the choices of others.

Happiness isn't some fairy that comes and goes as it pleases. Rather I found that it is dependant on whether my human needs are met or not. When I am content with the state of my life then I am happy. When I find myself wanting then I am unhappy.

That means I have experienced a human need to be treated with kindness, to be free from agonizing pain, and to have the freedom to make my own choices (in as far as my choices are not harmful to others). Some people have needs that are impossible to satisfy and such people can never experience lasting happiness.

I much prefer the Buddha's philosophy on happiness and suffering:

"There is happiness in life,
happiness in friendship,
happiness of a family,
happiness in a healthy body and mind,
...but when one loses them, there is suffering." -- Dhammapada

Buddha's Four Noble Truths:
1. There is suffering
2. There is a cause of suffering
3. There is an end to suffering
4. There is a path leading to the end of suffering

[Yothu]

HAPPINESS

Nasrudin saw a man sitting dispiritedly at the side of the road. And asked him what troubled him.
"There is nothing of interest in life, my brother,"said the man.
"I have sufficient capital in order that I don't have to work, and I am only on this trip in order to seek something more interesting and entertaining than the life I have at home."
"So far I haven't found it!"
Without another word, Nasrudin seized the travelers knapsack and made off down the road with it, running like a rabbit. Since he knew the area, he was easily able to out distance him
The road curved, and Nasrudin cut across several switchbacks, with the result that he was soon back on the road, well ahead of the man he had just robbed.
He put the knapsack by the side of the road and waited for the distressed traveler to show up.
Presently the miserable man appeared, following the tortuous road, more unhappy than ever because of his loss.
As soon as he saw his property lying there, by the side of the road, he ran towards it, shouting with joy.

"That's one way of producing happiness," said Nasrudin.