Suggested Diet

[creativekey]

so I don't want to sound fanatical by bringing up Chalko again, but he mentions that a vegan diet is essential to spiritual growth. well, he mentions that a vegan diet is necessary for astral travel more like. I don't remember what TP says about eating our animal friends, but anyway I'm wondering if anyone follows this advice and if everyone agrees that its important what you feed your body? Of course its most important what you feed your mind, but a healthy body helps yes?

[Alisima]

so I don't want to sound fanatical by bringing up Chalko again, but he mentions that a vegan diet is essential to spiritual growth. well, he mentions that a vegan diet is necessary for astral travel more like. I don't remember what TP says about eating our animal friends, but anyway I'm wondering if anyone follows this advice and if everyone agrees that its important what you feed your body? Of course its most important what you feed your mind, but a healthy body helps yes?

Well, it all depends. I can imagine a sumo wrestler not wanting to be vegan and definitly not wanting to do some fasting. So it is just personal preferences here.

[Vesko]

It indeed depends, and we need to know what the dependencies are. One dependency is that we are all human, and general guidelines can be given because of that. Personal preferences need to be within the bounds set by the various dependencies, otherwise bad things happen.

Regarding sumo wrestlers, I do not think they are epitomes of optimal eating and living, since they are considerably overweight (obese) -- overweightness is a conclusively proven factor contributing to disease.

Indeed, it is most important what you feed your mind, but by way of the physical body the optimal operation of the mind depends on physical food, drink and air, too.

Michel's book neither objects to, nor promotes eating meat. Do you remember the part where Thao says the Bakaratinians had been consuming large amounts of meat, but makes no comment whether it is good or bad? But the author has given a stance, evidently based on his Thiaoouba experience, in an audio interview. You can read a transcript of the particular moment in the interview, located on the forum topic "Vegetarian: Good or Bad?" in the "General Spirituality and Healing" forum. Others and myself have given some opinions there, too.

[Lena]

I think TC mainly said it is wrong to kill animals. ever since reading his book I've stopped picking flowers because I don't want to kill them ... but I still eat fish.

"and its okay to eat fish, cus they don't have any feelings" Nirvana

You don't need to be a vegan to astral project, but I guess it helps.

[creativekey]

oh okay so I read the other thread titled "Vegetarian: Good or Bad?". It seems everyone has come to their own conclusions about it. I guess I'll share mine. I think that all answers can be found in nature, and if we look at nature, you'll notice that we have 32 teeth. Only 4 of those are canine (small ones at that). You can tell what kind of foods animals eat by what kind of teeth they have, and when you do the math.. if you eat three meals a day, only 2-3 meals each week should contain meat. With that in mind, I want to point out that every nutrient and vitamin our bodies need can be found in plants, grains, nuts etc.

So though our bodies can handle an occasional serving of meat, it is not necessary to live. Unlike meat eating animals with full mouths of canine teeth and short intestinal tracks. Like someone mentioned earlier, our intestines are very long and meat actually rots in there before its completely digested. (random fact, the average human as 15lbs of undigested red meat in their intestines when they die).

I have been vegetarian for seven years now and its working out well for me. It just puts more pressure to eat healthy and watch what exactly you are feeding yourself. Though like what Michel says in his interview, its really just up to the person. I would suggest eating fish every now and then if you felt a need to eat meat, but now days our oceans are full of mercury and personally I wouldn't take that risk. There's no real need to kill animals, but there is real danger in over-kill. If you know what I mean.

Oh just one more thing I'd like to mention. A friend of mine just became a vegetarian and she said she her mind feels a lot more clear and that her body just "feels better" since she stopped consuming flesh. She also said she feels lighter (and she has lost weight). I was so young when I stopped eating meat, so I don't really remember the difference, but I know its important to not weigh yourself down with meat. It takes a lot more energy to break down than plant foods. Energy you could be using for MIND POWER! he he. anyway, that's all.

[Vesko]

oh okay so I read the other thread titled "Vegetarian: Good or Bad?". It seems everyone has come to their own conclusions about it. I guess I'll share mine. I think that all answers can be found in nature, and if we look at nature, you'll notice that we have 32 teeth. Only 4 of those are canine (small ones at that). You can tell what kind of foods animals eat by what kind of teeth they have, and when you do the math.. if you eat three meals a day, only 2-3 meals each week should contain meat.

The following counterpoint can be made to yours: the intelligent ability of humans to cut flesh and bones with external tools as well as cook them to make them softer may be reasons for not having large and numerous canine teeth. This is not to say that you are wrong, just that more scientific research needs to be done to establish the truth.

With that in mind, I want to point out that every nutrient and vitamin our bodies need can be found in plants, grains, nuts etc.

The so-called non-analogue vitamin B12 can be found only in animal foods. There are other nutrients, such as vitamin A, that may be difficult to obtain in adequate amounts from plants. Of course, you could rely on artificial supplements with their own advantages and disadvantages.

(I have just added the above paragraph to my opinion on the "Vegetarian: Good or Bad" topic.)

So though our bodies can handle an occasional serving of meat, it is not necessary to live.

Certainly, but the question we need to ask is, is not eating meat the best for optimal living? To answer the question conclusively, we certainly need to do a lot of personal introspection and scientific research.

Unlike meat eating animals with full mouths of canine teeth and short intestinal tracks. Like someone mentioned earlier, our intestines are very long and meat actually rots in there before its completely digested. (random fact, the average human as 15lbs of undigested red meat in their intestines when they die).

Have you checked yourself the validity of the studies that have concluded that meat rots inside us, and how the conclusions have been arrived at? I know this is disputed.

I have been vegetarian for seven years now and its working out well for me. It just puts more pressure to eat healthy and watch what exactly you are feeding yourself. Though like what Michel says in his interview, its really just up to the person. I would suggest eating fish every now and then if you felt a need to eat meat, but now days our oceans are full of mercury and personally I wouldn't take that risk. There's no real need to kill animals, but there is real danger in over-kill. If you know what I mean.

One should watch out for plant contaminations, too, especially in processed plant foods, e.g. fluoride and aluminum contaminants in soy foods.

Oh just one more thing I'd like to mention. A friend of mine just became a vegetarian and she said she her mind feels a lot more clear and that her body just "feels better" since she stopped consuming flesh. She also said she feels lighter (and she has lost weight). I was so young when I stopped eating meat, so I don't really remember the difference, but I know its important to not weigh yourself down with meat. It takes a lot more energy to break down than plant foods. Energy you could be using for MIND POWER! he he. anyway, that's all.

It is important to realize that everyone (it does not have to be necessarily true for your friend) who has been overloaded with animal food is surely going to note improvements by eating an equal amount of plant food for a short period, but what are the long-term effects of eating that? This and the previous question about optimal living need to be answered, but we live in the dawn of science and it is far from a solved question and an easy task to prove formally, since a diet consists of many factors and there are many other non-dietary factors that influence health. Also, expending a given amount of energy for digesting a certain food can be good if the food brings benefits to the body that cannot be obtained from a food requiring less energy for its digestion.

[InfoSource]

What do you guys think of a diet consisting of only organic foods?

I found a couple of studies that show the health benefits of eating organic foods vs. non-organic foods

http://lookwayup.com/free/organic.htm
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b1 ... /roth.html

The second link has more detail and a more balanced view of the pros and cons of organic foods with some additional links as well

The pros of organic food are higher mineral content, the non-use of pesticides, herbicides, insecticides, and growth hormones which are potentially harmful to your health especially pesticides, vs. the cons of lower production rates resulting in higher pricing, and the loss of soil nutrients in organic farms

Opinions are welcome, has anyone eaten organic food before?

[Aisin]

Since this issue is brought up, I'd like to share some valuable info which I've collected, and which I think are highly significant advice.

~~~

Dr Lin Guang Chang, trained in Chinese medicine, has advocated a set of specially designed diet, clinically proven to be suitable for any healthy person as well as patients of cancer or chronic illnesses. The principle of a meal is: 20% fruits, 40% vegetables (2 varieties, preferably 1 of them uncooked to preserve natural enzyme), 20% sweet potatoes, 20% unpolished rice and grains (including beans for source of protein). It's preferable to ingest according to the sequence listed, ie fruits first.

In addition to what we should eat, food /additives that we should avoid and should only consume in minimal quantity are also plenty, eg: salt, sugar, oil, artificial colouring, preservatives, soft drinks, dairy products, eggs, seafood, meat. Those who're unable to conform to vegetarian diet mentally or emotionally, should ingest meat last, ie after rice and grains.

Another important priniciple in selecting the best food for yourself is to go for food grown in the same climate (same latitude) as your dwelling place. For example: rice is more suitable for inhabitants of tropical climate, whereas people living in temperate climate may benefit more from wheats. The above was originally recommended for Asians, residents of other continents who're interested to give it a try may make adjustments according to the local climate.

I'd like to testify that the above diet works well. There are similar reactions as those described in 'The Joy of Perfect Health' by Tom Chalko, but in a more gradually progressive manner. The diet can be considered an intermediate or preparative stage to fasting.

~~~

Dr Zhang Jia Rui, also trained in traditional Chinese medicine, has elucidated in his books the main cause of illnesses. Most of the time, we fall sick when the pH balance within our body is upset. The ideal pH value of our internal environment should be pH7.35~7.45. The illness may manifest itself as various diseases including allergies, cancer, and chronic diseases, but these are often traceable to the main cause.

We fall sick because our lifestyle and diet has deviated from nature. Symptoms of diseases such as coughing, inflamation and fever are just the steps that our body undertakes in order to restore balance with nature.

Food rich in protein release a great amount of acidic end-products after digestion. (amino acids), eg: seafood, eggs, dairy products. Our body is capable of balancing the abrupt increase in acidity after digestion, by releasing Calcium ions from our bones and teeth to neutralize the drop in pH. Abrupt high acidity is hazardous to our body, this release of Calcium ions can be considered a natural defence mechanism which prevents the sudden drop in pH. But you can imagine what will happen if we continue to lose more Calcium from our body.

From personal experience, I had developed a tooth decay during a time when I took in a high percentage of protein (from milk and eggs) in my diet. It's most likely not a coincidence.

~~~

I also happened to browse a few pages of one of Deepak Chopra's book in a bookshop, and one particular notion caught my attention. It was said, the most recommended food is the one that contains 'prana' (energy), examples are vegetables fresh from the garden. In that sense, it can be deduced that even a vegetarian diet mainly consisting of heavily preserved or semi-rotten vegetables or over-cooked vegetables (as opposed to fresh vegetables) is not beneficial either. Like the 'you are made up of what you eat' concept.

Organic food is often said to be preferable over non-organic food, but organic food are also much more expensive. I haven't finished reading the entire book, but it's fair enough to say that the type of food we eat, and the quality of the vegetables that we eat matter more than whether it's organic or not. I have not fed entirely on organic food, but by just making minor adjustments according to the recommendations above, i've benefited alot.

~~~

Dr Dhilip Kumar, a veteran yoga instructor in Malaysia has also mentioned that, vegetarian diet is preferred; and to go deeper onto a spiritual path, vegan diet is more preferable, which should also exclude spices (eg: onion, garlic). This has also been echoed by some Buddhists. It's also interesting to note that Dr Dhilip advises those who can't live without eating meat to gradually reduce meat intake, and to ingest in smaller quantity, than to abruptly eliminate meat from their diet, so that they do not go into emotional distress for deprivation of meat. I guess mental health is as important as physical health when diet is concerned.

~~~

I'm unable to quote any medical journals for the purpose of 'first-hand' information, especially the works quoted above are considered traditional or alternative medicine, as opposed to mainstream modern medicine. However, the books and clinical experience of the doctors mentioned are highly recognized and effective, and to me that matters more than papers written based on experiements done on mice, for example.

References:
Books and articles on healthy detoxification and other aspects of healthcare by Lin Guang Chang
Book 'The Principles of Avoiding Illness' by Zhang Jia Rui
Books by Deepak Chopra
* Some of the references are not in English.

[Aisin]

Would this topic be more appropriate under the healing section of 'General Spirituality and Healing' forum?

Moderator note: Yes, thank you, moved (VeskoP).

[Bastian]

A friend of mine just became a vegetarian and she said she her mind feels a lot more clear and that her body just "feels better" since she stopped consuming flesh.

I remember someone else saying just that .. that their mind became clearer after becoming a vegetarian.

from pg108 Thiaoouba Prophecy
‘Surprisingly, I’m not particularly hungry, and yet, on Earth, I have four meals per day!’
‘It’s not really so surprising, my friend. Our food here is prepared in such a way that the calories contained in the food are released at regular intervals over a two-day period. We continue to be nourished without overloading our stomachs. This also allows our minds to remain clear and alert and, after all, our minds must be a priority - isn’t that so?’ I nodded my agreement.

from pg82 Thiaoouba Prophecy
‘At the moment, most responsibility is taken for the physical body, but this is a serious mistake. If your psyche is poor, it will influence your physical appearance accordingly, but, regardless, your physical body will wear out and die one day, whereas your psyche, being part of your Astral body, never dies. On the contrary, the more you cultivate your mind, the less you will be burdened by your physical body and the quicker you will proceed through your cycle of lives.

Regarding the last quote: It is of course helpful to look after our physical body. However when reading the above I realise that physical health should never overshadow our spiritual development. Our primary responsibility is our spiritual development.

I am not wishing to discourage discussion of matters regarding of physical health, just reminding myself of my priorities . It is very easy for me to get all caught up in matters physical health (I have a pretty bad immune disorder), so much so that it becomes a real distraction.

[Bastian]

Adults need far less protein then children. There are some real disadvantages to over-consumption of meat:

Eating large amounts of protein produce a high 'Renal Acid Load' on your kidneys (uric acid is the metabolite). Reducing the 'Renal Acid Load' can make life easier for the kidneys. If you eat a lot of protein then the kidney has to excrete minerals like calcium along with the uring in order to balance urine pH. Fruit and veg produce an alkaline load, and hence no issue with calcium loss.

* See this page for info on 'renal acid load' and a table indicating what load different foods put on the kidneys :
http://www.thepaleodiet.com/acidbase.htm

Quote from: http://www.thepaleodiet.com/acidbase.htm
"Bone health is substantially dependent on dietary acid/base balance. All foods upon digestion ultimately must report to the kidney as either acid or base. When the diet yields a net acid load (such as low-carb fad diets that restrict consumption of fruits and vegetables), the acid must be buffered by the alkaline stores of base in the body. Calcium salts in the bones represent the largest store of alkaline base in the body and are depleted and eliminated in the urine when the diet produces a net acid load. The highest acid-producing foods are hard cheeses, cereal grains, salted foods, meats, and legumes, whereas the only alkaline, base-producing foods are fruits and vegetables. Because the average American diet is overloaded with grains, cheeses, salted processed foods, and fatty meats at the expense of fruits and vegetables, it produces a net acid load and promotes bone de-mineralization. "

[Bastian]

Vitamin B12 is an issue for Vegans (as they consume no animal products), but it wont be a problem for vegetarians who eat dairy products.

The current stance of nutritionists is that Vitamin B12 is absorbed in the small intestine and not in the large intestine / colon. Oddly the bacteria in the colon produce huge amounts of active B12, so why can't our bodies absorb some of that? Very odd. Enough to make one think there is a huge design flaw !

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html
Bacteria present in the large intestine are able to synthesise B12. In the past, it has been thought that the B12 produced by these colonic bacteria could be absorbed and utilised by humans. However, the bacteria produce B12 too far down the intestine for absorption to occur, B12 not being absorbed through the colon lining.
[...]
Good sources of vitamin B12 for vegetarians are dairy products or free-range eggs. ½ pint of milk (full fat or semi skimmed) contains 1.2 µg. A slice of vegetarian cheddar cheese (40g) contains 0.5 µg. A boiled egg contains 0.7 µg. Fermentation in the manufacture of yoghurt destroys much of the B12 present. Boiling milk can also destroy much of the B12.

[Bastian]

As far as I know Vitamin A is not an issue for vegetarians as the liver can readily convert beta-carotene and other carotenoids into Vitamin A as needed. In fact beta-carotene has significant advantages over Vitamin A as it is tolerated far better at high doses.

The livers of certain animals contain excessive levels of Vitamin A, enough to be toxic -- and a particular danger for pregnant women (it can cause birth defects).

[Bastian]

Have you checked yourself the validity of the studies that have concluded that meat rots inside us, and how the conclusions have been arrived at? I know this is disputed.

It is good for us to check these things out for ourselves . We have to ask ourselves whether the information comes from trustworthy sources.

There is so much false information flowing around in all circles... and even honest and sincere people will accidentally propagate false information. Even 'respectable' areas such as Medical Science have their fair share of false doctrine - this I can attest to from personal experience with my immune disorder (in this matter diet is central, and the use of an 'elimination diet' is the key).

So then I am thinking about the role of criticism on this forum..
My approach now is that I need to speak up if someone says something I think is wrong (politely of course, and choosing my words carefully). Criticise the information, but not the person. Better to do this than to propagate false information. On the other hand, I have to expect to get a fair share of that kind of polite criticism in return without getting all worked up about it.. not always easy :O

[Aisin]

Although research has been carried out, medical reports have been published, I still have reservations on the recommended quantity of vitamin intake we need each day, considering that various publications has indicated that commercial factor plays a big role in driving such researches. It's been said that 'opposing and disagreeing results are systematically ignored or misquoted in the scientific press'. A good example is: The Cholesterol Myths by Uffe Ravnskov, MD, PhD, a more comical version of the idea is available as well. That said, I'm not trying to discredit any medical research, it's just that there's too much cluster to effectively filter out the gems. Of course we still need vitamins, it's just that natural food is always a better option compared to artificial supplements or fortified food.

Here's the 'New West Diet' suggested by Dr Tim O'Shea :

NEW WEST DIET

I. UNRESTRICTED

* Raw fruits
* Raw vegetables (or lightly steamed)
* Brown rice
* Grilled fish
* Selected herbs
* Whole grains
* Ezechiel bread
* 1-2 litres good water

II. WITH SOME MODERATION

* Clean meats, cooked rare ( clean means no hormones or antibiotics)
* Unprocessed fruit and vegetable juices
* eggs
* Raw dairy
* Raw nuts and seeds

III. ON RARE OCCASIONS - (not during initial detox period) -- (and only with enzyme supplements)

* Processed cheese
* Commercial pizza
* Commercial butter
* Real ice cream (no gum)
* Canned foods
* Alcohol
* Coffee
* Pasteurized dairy (as long as you don't mind liquid formica)

IV. NOT IN THIS LIFETIME

* Soft drinks
* French fries
* Doughnuts
* Potato chips
* Refined protein powders
* Margarine
* Hydrogenated oils
* Mayonnaise
* Hydrogenated oil snacks (salty snacks)
* diet soft drinks
* Nutrisweet/aspartame
* Soy in any form
* White bread

Another interesting notion is brought forward by Professor Jane Plant in her book:
Your Life in Your Hands, which relates the consumption of commercial cow's milk with the risk of breast cancer.