Thinking: in the Brain or Mind?

[Robanan]

[Originally posted on the topic "What is Enlightenment?" in the "General Spirituality and Healing" forum (Moderator note).]

Well, aren't most things just magical brain chemistry??

Does thinking happen in the brain?

[bomohwkl]

Does thinking happen in the brain?

However, it is important to note that external environment does influence in a certain way the way we think. Supression of right eye vision will result a different way of mental perception compared with your left eye.

[Originally posted on the topic "Uncompromising Inner Strength?" in the "Unrelated Topics" forum (Moderator note).]

what really gets me motivated? I want God to be proud of me

I have seen a few speeches given by Islamic extremists/terrorists on TV. I have the same feeling that they want their God to be proud of what they do! A very powerful motivation that can either create havoc or harmony. Caution, the motivation be directed.

[Alisima]

Does thinking happen in the brain?

It is a good question, and since no one actually answered, I'll try.

First, how do you define thinking?? As a succession of thoughts, or just as giving attention to them?? Or as simply being capable of conscious thought??

In the act of writing the above questions, I had another one. Can you think without thoughts??

I tried, but since my thinking had no direction, it was more meditation than thinking. So, I don't think one can think without thoughts. Somehow, thinking and thoughts are related to each other.

Is thinking somehow consciously directing your thoughts?? Well directing to some limit I guess, but certainly not 100 percent. Or does that simply depends on how good one is in thinking??

Personally I think thinking does happen in the brain. You could always attach yourself to an EEG-device and start to think heavily. Still that doesn't prove much.

I think a Zen master would have asked me: show me how you think. To which I probably would answer, I think I can't.

[Robanan]

However, it is important to note that external environment does influence in a certain way the way we think. Supression of right eye vision will result a different way of mental perception compared with your left eye.

I agree,

First, how do you define thinking?? As a succession of thoughts, or just as giving attention to them?? Or as simply being capable of conscious thought??

In the act of writing the above questions, I had another one. Can you think without thoughts??

I tried, but since my thinking had no direction, it was more meditation than thinking. So, I don't think one can think without thoughts. Somehow, thinking and thoughts are related to each other.

Is thinking somehow consciously directing your thoughts?? Well directing to some limit I guess, but certainly not 100 percent. Or does that simply depends on how good one is in thinking??

Thinking is one of the things that the mind does either consciously or subconsciously. Thinking is the act of processing thoughts I suppose that the quality of a thinking activity is defined by the quality of the thoughts the mind is dealing with.

Personally I think thinking does happen in the brain. You could always attach yourself to an EEG-device and start to think heavily. Still that doesn't prove much.

Suppose you have been overeating very much, you will have problems focusing your toughts even if you try to focus on digestion, This shouldn't have happened if thinking was happening in the brain because if thinking was happening in the brain you wouldn't have been able to escape thinking about digesting. I have supposed that you don't have any doubts regarding the fact that the brain coordinates all the process of digestion with all other organs.

I think a Zen master would have asked me: show me how you think. To which I probably would answer, I think I can't.

You are talking about too many thing with just one little phrase, if you want to talk about the point that you wanted to emphasize please be more specific about it so that we could discuss it in details.

[Alisima]

Suppose you have been overeating very much, you will have problems focusing your toughts even if you try to focus on digestion, This shouldn't have happened if thinking was happening in the brain because if thinking was happening in the brain you wouldn't have been able to escape thinking about digesting. I have supposed that you don't have any doubts regarding the fact that the brain coordinates all the process of digestion with all other organs.

The brain consists of many parts. I doubt that the part which is responsible for digestion is also responsible for thinking. In other words, the brain is just a multi-task unit. It can do several things at once, until, ofcourse, one or two things demands much attention. But how much attention does digestion demand?? We can still think after we eat too much.

Anyhow, where do you think thinking happens??

I think a Zen master would have asked me: show me how you think. To which I probably would answer, I think I can't.

You are talking about too many thing with just one little phrase, if you want to talk about the point that you wanted to emphasize please be more specific about it so that we could discuss it in details.

It was not intended as an argument or a discussion. You either understand what I am saying, or you don't.

However, we could make it into something tangible. Prove me that you think.

[Robanan]

The brain consists of many parts. I doubt that the part which is responsible for digestion is also responsible for thinking. In other words, the brain is just a multi-task unit. It can do several things at once, until, ofcourse, one or two things demands much attention. But how much attention does digestion demand?? We can still think after we eat too much.

Digestion is the manifestation of all the organs working together, Even so according to what you are trying to say all the parts of the brain which work with the organs responsible for digestion are simply so overwhelmed with their business that you would black out in a digestion trance each time you were to overeat if your thinking processes were also to happen in the brain. The brain is a single organic unit no matter how many parts it has, this means that all the parts in the brain are interconnected and since the processing capability of the brain is limited, Overloading the brain would have had created a great demand of processing time and resources. As you claim that the brain has a thinking part in the case of overloading of the brain the attention of the thought processing part of the brain would also be required naturally, there is only another way to imagine it differently, and that is if thinking was happening in the brain then you might have been left with a huge amount of rottening food inside your guts if you were to overload your brain with too much thinking activity. Do'nt forget even though the brain is powerful it's processing capabilities are limited. However you can imagine the limit try also to imagine the brain as it is functioning on the verge of that limit.

Anyhow, where do you think thinking happens??

In the mind and my opinion is that the mind is definetly not in the brain.

It was not intended as an argument or a discussion. You either understand what I am saying, or you don't.

However, we could make it into something tangible. Prove me that you think.

What is it? you and that Zen master have never experienced thinking?

You're turning funny again Alisima...

How do you imagine me being able to make a single comprehensible phrase if I was not thinking?

[Alisima]

Digestion is the manifestation of all the organs working together, Even so according to what you are trying to say all the parts of the brain which work with the organs responsible for digestion are simply so overwhelmed with their business that you would black out in a digestion trance each time you were to overeat if your thinking processes were also to happen in the brain. The brain is a single organic unit no matter how many parts it has, this means that all the parts in the brain are interconnected and since the processing capability of the brain is limited, Overloading the brain would have had created a great demand of processing time and resources. As you claim that the brain has a thinking part in the case of overloading of the brain the attention of the thought processing part of the brain would also be required naturally, there is only another way to imagine it differently, and that is if thinking was happening in the brain then you might have been left with a huge amount of rottening food inside your guts if you were to overload your brain with too much thinking activity. Do'nt forget even though the brain is powerful it's processing capabilities are limited. However you can imagine the limit try also to imagine the brain as it is functioning on the verge of that limit.

Anyhow, where do you think thinking happens??

In the mind and my opinion is that the mind is definetly not in the brain.

Well, the mind is responsible for one's thoughts, it is the seat of the faculty of reason. So thinking does not happen in the mind, but by the mind.

I think many neurologist would disagree with you, but on the other hand, I guess there would be some who indeed agree with you. However, I cannot prove it does happen in the brain, for I don't know.

What is it? you and that Zen master have never experienced thinking?

I have no Zen master, I just agree with most of there views. Forget them.

How do you imagine me being able to make a single comprehensible phrase if I was not thinking?

You wrongfully assume you have to think in order to create something, in this case a comprehensible phrase.

[Yothu]

You wrongfully assume you have to think in order to create something, in this case a comprehensible phrase.

Well, what do you propose? How does it happen then?

Every thought has got weight, shape, size, form, colour, quality and power. A Yogi can see all these thoughts directly with his inner Yogic eye. Thoughts are like things. Just as you hand over an orange to your friend and take it back, so also you can give a useful, powerful thought to your friend and also take it back. Thought is a great force; it moves; it creates. You can work wonders with the power of thought. You must know the right technique of handling and manipulating a thought.

Suppose your mind is rendered perfectly calm, entirely without thoughts. Nevertheless, as soon as thought begins to rise, it will immediately take name and form. Every thought has a certain name and a certain form. Thus you find that every idea that man has or can have, must be connected with a certain word as its counterpart. Form is the grosser and name the finer state of a single manifesting power called thought. But these three are one; wherever there is one, the other two also are there. Wherever name is, there are form and thought.

[1]

[1] http://www.dlshq.org/download/thought_power.htm

[Robanan]

Yothu, thank you for your enlightening Post

Well, the mind is responsible for one's thoughts, it is the seat of the faculty of reason. So thinking does not happen in the mind, but by the mind.

I think many neurologist would disagree with you, but on the other hand, I guess there would be some who indeed agree with you. However, I cannot prove it does happen in the brain, for I don't know.

So The mind generates and releases the thoughts for them to be processed in the brain? Would you generate millions and millions of numbers on a computer just to sit and calculate them with a calculator? (mind = computer, brain = calculator -relatively speaking)

You wrongfully assume you have to think in order to create something, in this case a comprehensible phrase.

There are two moments here, one is that most of the things which we do without thinking are those things that we have already thought about and have already learned, The second point is that thinking can be further applied to the things that we have already learned (like making phrases) for the sake of improvement (making aimed comprehensible phrases) do not confuse these two points.

Tell me and Yothu how is it that it is wrong to make such an assumption.

Prove me that you think.

You already have experienced thinking if you recognized according to your opinion that "I wrongfully assumed...." so what's the point of asking me to prove that I think when you do think yourself? Do you remember what Tom said? That proof can only arise in the mind?

[Lena]

[Originally posted on the topic "Uncompromising Inner Strength?" in the "Unrelated Topics" forum (Moderator note).]

what really gets me motivated? I want God to be proud of me

I have seen a few speeches given by Islamic extremists/terrorists on TV. I have the same feeling that they want their God to be proud of what they do! A very powerful motivation that can either create havoc or harmony. Caution, the motivation be directed.

good point, I must be carefull of that.

I believe that intellect lives in the mind, and that our brain is only tool to express our thoughts in the physical world. if there is something wrong with our brains, our thinking comes out wrong, but that does not necessarily mean we aren't smart. I think this applies to people with learning disorders or mental diseases.

[Vesko]

if there is something wrong with our brains, our thinking comes out wrong, but that does not necessarily mean we aren't smart. I think this applies to people with learning disorders or mental diseases.

That is certainly true. There have been many clever people who have been mentally crippled by illness affecting the brain.

[Lena]

if there is something wrong with our brains, our thinking comes out wrong, but that does not necessarily mean we aren't smart. I think this applies to people with learning disorders or mental diseases.

That is certainly true. There have been many clever people who have been mentally crippled by illness affecting the brain.

Wow, Vesko, that must be the shortest post I've ever seen come from you!