God told me to invade Iraq, Bush tells Palestinian ministers

[trumpet_is_cool]

What do you think, assumed that the Statement comes really from Bush, is it true or is it a lie that he got orders to start war`s ?

Nabil Shaath says: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressr ... bush.shtml

[Alisima]

It is always funny to see two forces fighting who both claim god is on their side.

A god who supports both sides in war could be considered very awkward, at least from a moral standpoint.

Bush is a very determined man, although most presidents are. Whenever he would get something in his mind, he would probably do it, whether it is coming from god or not. He even would try to convice everyone his idea came from god, even if it is to shift the blaim.

Personally I don't think god speaks english, which is probably the language bush hears. I don't think god speaks at all. His message is only transmitable through silence.

Any man claiming to hear god is clearly delusional, for god has no need to speak.

Bush is using god as an excuse to do horrible things. He is no better then any tyrant he is fighting.

[Vesko]

My opinion is that the war in Iraq has done significantly more harm to the sociopolitical situation than the undeniable benefit of removing Saddam in itself (see below). There is a lot of hidden harm in the war, because it has given a very bad example to the less conscious people in the entire world that violence is fine. Such less conscious people would surely try to justify their actions on the basis of what one of the most economically powerful countries did in the past, and continues doing.

I think it is easy to see the above if one is a reasonable person, and I think that God, who is supposedly by far the most reasonable being, would understand that and would not even hint at such a war.

In view of the above, I think that if Bush really uttered those words -- and it is possible that he did not actually -- they provide evidence that Bush has fallen to the level of religous fundamentalists. He is becoming, if he is not already, exactly like some of the people he opposes.

In case someone is wondering what exactly I mean by "undeniable benefit of removing Saddam in itself", I mean that it cannot be denied that removing a tyrant from ruling, in itself, is bad in any way. However, I think that Saddam should not have been removed in the way it has been done because it (the way) has caused harmful side effects, including the promotion of violence in the factions in and around Iraq, instead of promoting negotiations and peaceful understanding to achieve a much better agreement between the factions than what the disturbing situation is now.

[Robanan]

According to Thao God has never spoken to any Human being:

‘He could not have done so, since it is astral bodies which aspire towards Him and not God who leans towards them. That would be like a river flowing backwards -...'
-quote from the book

It is funny to quote Michel here:

The politicians use the word democracy like a smoke screen. The majority of politicians have three gods - power, glory and money. They are, nonetheless, afraid of the masses because as Arki (See Chapter 10) demonstrated, groups of people who really get on well can achieve exactly what they want.

-The book, postscript

This might very well depict what Bush means when he talks about God telling him to do this and that. We all have that little voice inside which talks to us, by the way isn't that voice generated from our own thoughts?

Captain America is here to save the world...Who can save us from Captain America?

[Vesko]

Thinking again, it is pretty incredible to me that he said those words. I hope they have been mistranslated and he did not say them.

[Lena]

I voted "I don't know" because I honestly don't know. I've heard so many lies that I don't pay attention to the media or news anymore. I don't follow politics. I do know that Bush has repeatedly demonstrated his lack of understanding of the Purpose, but then again, if a higher power really did tell him to go to war, maybe it is because to do that would be less evil than something else that would happen if we didn't go to war, which is hard to imagine, but is possible. Like when the Thiaooubians let the bombs go off in Japan.

According to Thao God has never spoken to any Human being: Quote:
‘He could not have done so, since it is astral bodies which aspire towards Him and not God who leans towards them. That would be like a river flowing backwards -...'
-quote from the book

I think sometimes people who hear messages from their higher selves or spirit guides mistake them for messages from God simply because they don't know what a higher self or spirit guide is.

[Robanan]

I think sometimes people who hear messages from their higher selves or spirit guides mistake them for messages from God simply because they don't know what a higher self or spirit guide is.

Higher Selves and spiritual guides don't tell people to start war and invade other countries. If you have forgotten the purpose of existence of man according to the great Thaora let me remind you that Higher Selves and Spirit Guides exist for the sole reason to serve that purpose.

I voted "I don't know" because I honestly don't know. I've heard so many lies that I don't pay attention to the media or news anymore. I don't follow politics. I do know Tothat Bush has repeatedly demonstrated his lack of understanding of the Purpose, but then again, if a higher power really did tell him to go to war, maybe it is because to do that would be less evil than something else that would happen if we didn't go to war, which is hard to imagine, but is possible. Like when the Thiaooubians let the bombs go off in Japan.

I appreciate your honesty but allow me to invite you to rethink the subject over, It is clear that it couldn't have been God who talked to Bush, in my previous comment on this post I'm drawing your attention to the point that it couldn't have been either the Higher self of Bush nor any spirit guide (if we suppose Bush has one and even knows how to listen to it) as to what I think there are two available options:

1- Thiaooubians talked to Bush

2- Bush is psychologically driven by his own ambitions

I would like to discuss the why(s) and why not(s) of these two points.

[Alisima]

Or he is lying.

[Lena]

Or he is lying.

thats probably the most likely situation. and thanks for clearing things up for me, Robanan

edit: spelling error

[Frozn]

1- Thiaooubians talked to Bush

2- Bush is psychologically driven by his own ambitions

I would like to discuss the why(s) and why not(s) of these two points.

I would like to argue that neither of the two are true in bush's case.

First let's consider the highly unlikely event that Thiaooubans talked to him. Although it is true that they may try to affect him in some way, being who he is and what he's 'accomplishing'; I'm SURE the people of Thiaoouba would NEVER agree with pre-emptive warfare. Any state that starts a war based on "Well, they might attack us! Lets get em!" is wrong, as is the premise of all war. Thiaoouban intervention would have surely involved something peaceful yet effective, so I think we can rule that one out.

As for Number 2, it's closer to the truth. However hes so thouroghly controlled by corporate agendas both inside and outside of his own family making him rich, that he acts according to other people's ambitions. He's merely a puppet in my opinion.

That leaves me with 2 possibilities:

1. He is lying, as Alisima said.

2. He is just plain delusional - out of touch with reality and believing his own thoughts are the thoughts of 'God'. I'm leaning towards this idea personally.

Oh PS, Nice to finally meet you Robanon! I read your posts on sciforums about TP, and I've got to hand it to you. You pressed those Darwinist believers hard to the wall with your clever and intelligent posts. Way to go.

[Vesko]

I rule out any possibility that he was given an advice from "above" to start the war, because the variants for peacefully resolving the situation were not exhausted at all. And not only were they not exhausted at all, but the war has been started largely on the basis of unsubstantiated beliefs about the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The latter were subsequently never found, as officially reported by the CIA. Any advice from "above" would be aimed first and foremost at exhausting any and all peaceful ways of resolving the problem before possibly resorting to other means, don't you think?

[Robanan]

I would like to argue that neither of the two are true in bush's case.

Your post says it all. I also think that Bush embarrased himself in front of the Palestinian ministers because Muslims believe that God(Allah) talks exclusively only with his prophets the last of which was Mohammed. Anyway I think he is up to something and he is lying as Alisima said.

It's nice to meet you too, you are very welcome to this forum, here you can read many intelligent posts from many intelligent people.

I rule out any possibility that he was given an advice from "above" to start the war, because the variants for peacefully resolving the situation were not exhausted at all. And not only were they not exhausted at all, but the war has been started largely on the basis of unsubstantiated beliefs about the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The latter were subsequently never found, as officially reported by the CIA. Any advice from "above" would be aimed first and foremost at exhausting any and all peaceful ways of resolving the problem before possibly resorting to other means, don't you think?

Indeed, I agree Vesko. During the Iran-Iraq war Bush's father must have loaded Iraq with all kinds of WMD's I think that's why Bush was so sure that they are there.

[Vesko]

Robanan, to the best of your knowledge, how would the Palestianian leaders react if Bush told them he were actually a prophet of God (Allah)?

[Robanan]

I think there is the probability that they might consider it as an insult to islam. They may decide to react on such an insult in different ways. The best option for them in this case would be to ask Bush to prove himself in front of the best muslim scholars and spiritual leaders. The worst option would be to call for an all out "Jihad" against Bush himself and everybody who is on his side and defends him.

Bush is not a school teacher, he is the president of the US. This is why I think that they might consider an all out war as an available option.

[Bastian]

This might very well depict what Bush means when he talks about God telling him to do this and that. We all have that little voice inside which talks to us, by the way isn't that voice generated from our own thoughts?

Robanan, correct me if I am wrong but you too have experienced some form of telepathic voice speak to you, one which could easily mistaken as having come from God?