Recommendations from the people of Thiaoouba?

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InfoSource
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Recommendations from the people of Thiaoouba?

Post: # 4906Post InfoSource »

Moderator note: "Edited to contain the post to which the author refers"
"Topic originally started by <Robanan>"

Robanan wrote:Neturei Karta International issued a statement on October 28, 2005,

Within the abovemnetioned statement. I found the following Quote most intresting:
Orthodox Jews have always prayed and till today, continually pray for the speedy and peaceful dismantling of the Zionist state. As per the teachings of the Torah, the Jewish law, the Jewish people are required to be loyal, upstanding citizens, in all of the countries wherein they reside. They are expressly forbidden to have their own entity or state in any form or configuration in this Heavenly decreed exile. Furthermore, the exemplification of one-self, with acts of compassion and goodness, is of the essence of Judaism. To subjugate and oppress a people, to steal their land, homes and orchards, etc., is of the cardinal sins, of the basic crimes, forbidden by the Torah.
So I have a question: "Do you think that the Jewish are to mix with other nations or to live friendly within other nations?"
Are you asking whether Jews should have a homeland (Israel) or live within other nations?

Well if it is I say both then. The state of Israel has been in existence for 50+ years and millions of Jews live there now. So dismantling the state would not be practical, instead efforts towards a two state solution where Palestinians and Jews can live in peace side by side is for the best IMO, and that's in the process of being made true, but it's probably going to take along time for that to be fully achieved.
Vesko
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Post: # 4911Post Vesko »

Robanan, I do not quite understand the question. You have posed the question "Do you think that the Jewish are to mix with other nations or to live friendly within other nations?" as if mixing and living friendly within were mutually exclusive, but they are not. What do you mean exactly?

Like InfoSource, I too think that any dismantling would not be practical at all for the millions of people who are already living there, despite injustices suffered from all people involved in the Israeli-Arab conflict.

I'd also like to make the context clearer. From that same "Neturei Karta" website, http://www.nkusa.org/activities/stateme ... 504nyc.cfm:
According to the true [Orthodox] Jewish belief, Jews are forbidden to create their own state before the coming of our Messiah.
As you know, Jews, Orthodox and non-Orthodox, do not believe Jesus had been the Messiah, but an impostor. Nor they think that he had ever resurrected.

Other Jews also have the latter, but not the former belief, so they have not delayed to follow Yahweh's words from the Torah and the sixth book of the Tanakh (the Jewish Bible):

http://www.gotquestions.org/Israel-land.html

The current state of Israel resides within the boundaries of the ancient Promised land of Israel.
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Robanan
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Post: # 4913Post Robanan »

Vesko wrote:You have posed the question "Do you think that the Jewish are to mix with other nations or to live friendly within other nations?" as if mixing and living friendly within were mutually exclusive, but they are not.
Yes you are right Vesko, I have made a mistake.


It's all childishly simple. It's not the case that I'm biased against the Zionist side of the Arab-Jewish conflict, I'm just up to sorting things out for myself. So as you noticed; there seems to be direct commandments from the Torah that have already warned the Jews, forbidding them to create their own state. So if these are commandments from the people of Thiaoouba then, my next question would be "Was this commandment given with the aim to decrease the amount of potential conflicts between Jews and Other nations?" I remembered from the book that the people from Thiaoouba expected the Jews to mix with other nations by the end of the period of time they could forsee. So I thought It would be better to know what other people think or propose before making any furthe deductions. The Formulation of the question needs serious revision.
Vesko wrote:Like InfoSource, I too think that any dismantling would not be practical at all for the millions of people who are already living there, despite injustices suffered from all people involved in the Israeli-Arab conflict.
Since I also think the dismantling of Israel is absolute nonsense I'm sorry to see this question turning up. Let's forget about it and never mention it again. If injustice against the palestinians is not good then injustice against the Jews is not good either.
Last edited by Robanan on Mon Dec 26, 2005 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Vesko
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Post: # 4914Post Vesko »

Robanan wrote:It's all childishly simple. It's not the case that I'm biased against the Zionist side of the Arab-Jewish conflict, I'm just up to sorting things out for myself. So as you noticed; there seems to be direct commandments from the Torah that have already warned the Jews, forbidding them to create their own state. So if these are commandments from the people of Thiaoouba then, my next question would be "Was this commandment given with the aim to decrease the amount of potential conflicts between Jews and Other nations?" I remembered from the book that the people from Thiaoouba expected the Jews to mix with other nations by the end of the period of time they could forsee. So I thought It would be better to know what other people think or propose before making any furthe deductions. The Formulation of the polling question and the available answers needs serious revision.
But if the book is correct, the Thiaooubans have sent the real Messiah in Jesus Christ's face. Therefore, from the Thiaooubans' viewpoint, the Jews are wrong to wait for the Messiah and they are certainly allowed to start a state or whatever else depends on the coming of the Messiah. And Jesus in the Bible is quite clear that nobody of his caliber, so to speak, is going to come after him, except he himself at the end of the world. (Can't remember the exact quote, but it is all in the Christian New Testament, which Jews of course do not believe in. And the end of the world is clearly symbolic, in my opinion.)
Robanan wrote:
Vesko wrote:Like InfoSource, I too think that any dismantling would not be practical at all for the millions of people who are already living there, despite injustices suffered from all people involved in the Israeli-Arab conflict.
Since I also think the dismantling of Israel is absolute nonsense I'm sorry to see this question turning up. Let's forget about it and never mention it again. If injustice against the palestinians is not good then injustice against the Jews is not good either.
Yes, indeed.
Do you REALLY practice meditation? If your REALLY do, do you practice a GOOD method? Are you sure this is REALLY so?
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