The freedom of choice and destiny

[Lena]

how is it possible to have your whole life planned out but at the same time to have freedom of choice? I have a theory that our higher selves KNOW or can predict what choices we will make. along with the higher selves of other people, they are able to plan out an intricate master plan which will provide everyone with an equal opportunity to learn from life experiences. ultimately, our higher selves know what choices we will make well before we do, based on our understanding and spiritual progress; or at least that is the theory.

this brings up another question: what makes someone choose to learn and another choose to self-eliminate, if (I assume) we're all given equal opportunity? what makes us individual? I believe we have freedom of choice BECAUSE we're individuals, not the other way around. what are your thoughts on this?

And lastly, if we preview our lives before living them, why can't we learn from the mistakes we'll make as we're watching? memory can be erased but understanding can't. why do we continue to make mistakes in our life if we've seen the consequences before being born? why doesn't the understanding carry over into physical life?

[gog]

Thats a very good Question!!! I often wonder that myself, what is the point of previewing your mortal existence and blah blah blah.... questions questions...

But as i have learned SIMPLICITY seems to be the key to all understanding.. at least for me it is.. i suppose most of you people know about CREATION(the big bang) etc etc... and so the GREAT SPIRIT created the material in order to experience.. and sent forth parts of itself (you can assume us humans and all the countless species through out the universe) sometimes the FREEDOM OF CHOICE sentence doesnt strike a cord with me. it sounds too arrogant for us individuals to contemplate, or perhaps its the actual ENGLISH itself, i myself am South American and with our language we can express more than with the ENGLISH language.. anyways what i'm getting at is no matter what,in the end(as in our current experience, category 1) as we progress further up we endup joining the great spirit.. as Thao has said in the book... sorry if i sound too linear etc etc, but it is hard for me to explain into words.. just be assured that SIMPLICITY is the key.. QUIET the mind and enjoy living... sometimes it really pains me watching the world as it is now.. it sickens me that so call scientists, governments etc etc etc
come up with stats stats stats, for example (we are gonna have this in the year 2080) etc etc etc, i mean what makes them think we are gonna get past this year or the next... look at whats happening around the globe.. i was reading the book not long ago and i remember THAO telling Michael about the environment, if we dont take care of it, then the situation is irreversible, i mean that was in 1987, we are at 2006 and it dont look the pollution has slowed down etc etc... although i'm not gonna run away to the mountains to escape anything, hahahaha at least one thing i have learned through my meditations is to let go of FEAR.. one thing i love the most to do is to go to sleep and DREAM, of yeah.. as in the book says (THE NIGHT BRINGS COUNCIL) oh yeah....

So all i can say is take deep breaths, keep asking questions and the answers will come.. just dont let frustration, anger take hold....

and i thank you for asking this, sorry if i didnt come clear enough, but as i said earlier, it is hard to put my experiences into words... come to think of it, our language limits us, our conditioning limits us, hell whatever happen to being OPEN MINDED, jejejeje

Love & Light..

JC.

ps. -=> thats my name ..:: Juan Carlos ::..

[ShahKorR]

It is amazing, The answer to your questions exists. However to try to use current human language to explain is most difficult as you have to basically start at the beginning, and also explaining it here would just not work for many different reasons.
The idea very very very basically is for you to pass on The "worthy" or higher vibrational thoughts(spiritual) to your higher self. Why? hehe why for Evolution! They would have been passed onto your true self via either dreams or by normal transmission via your brain. The "worthy" or higher vibrational thoughts(spiritual) will be accepted while "less worthy" lower vibrational thoughts(physical matter) will be blocked! Why accept something below your self?!?! You come from a place that exists in the wonderful vibrations of love why would you want to know about something that cant even exist where your going?
You KNOW the answer, YOU are the answer, you ARE! By doing what your doing now is what you are supposed to be doing! that is of course unless you only concern yourself with non spiritual thoughts then you will never progress! well only until your next life when you die and rejoin you will realize what you were supposed to do and how it all went wrong and then go back again to try to do it.
There you have it. A lot of information that actually explains a lot and yet nothing as you will not perceive the trueness of it until you yourself actually see within you. Forget the words! remember the pictures!

Chao to you JC(Juan) I just rambled this out in the last couple minutes. I am not here to explain but I thought I would try and I don’t think I got anywhere. It will be curious. I already can think of many things to slip between the lines hehe "read between the lines"


yes yes think of the pictures or perhaps I should ask of you something? Why did the Egyptians use hieroglyphic's ?? if you can understand that then much more should flow through to you!

p.s Look forward to seeing the replies

[Alisima]

how is it possible to have your whole life planned out but at the same time to have freedom of choice?

Well, it isn't. That much is obvious. Either your life isn't planned from the start, or you have no freedom of choice. Besides, who does the planning?? Or, more personally, who does the choicing?? Pay attention to your mind and try to find out where choices come from. Or, more generally, where thoughts come from. Do you know the thought before you mentally verbalize it, or do you not?? And, who 'sees' the thought?? Or is that witness a thought in itself?? Ahh, all these questions, and much more if we just inquire a little deeper. In fact, it seems these questions seem to increase exponential. As Lao Tzu said: "best be still, best be empty" (or was it Chuang Tzu?)

I have a theory that our higher selves KNOW or can predict what choices we will make. along with the higher selves of other people, they are able to plan out an intricate master plan which will provide everyone with an equal opportunity to learn from life experiences. ultimately, our higher selves know what choices we will make well before we do, based on our understanding and spiritual progress; or at least that is the theory.

You speak of the higher self as if it is an entity in itself. As if it is distinct from you. It is not. The concept of a higher self is often misunderstood. Same as with the soul, the lower self and even with god. Forget all those terrible words. Or simply replace them with 'I', that is what they mean anyway, in loose terms.

this brings up another question: what makes someone choose to learn and another choose to self-eliminate,

Isn't learning a form of self-elimination and isn't self-elimination a form of learning?? In other words, your labels of learning and self-elimination and their definitions are created by yourself. And with this you judge others. Step out and see the big picture. Learning and self-elimination are the same.

if (I assume) we're all given equal opportunity?

Who gives us these opportunities (even if they are not equal)?? I believe it is bad to subject yourself to an imaginative supreme spiritual being, god or higher self, who gives you opportunities, or anything for that matter. Not to mention downgrading towards yourself, since you are that supreme spiritual being.

what makes us individual? I believe we have freedom of choice BECAUSE we're individuals, not the other way around. what are your thoughts on this?

What makes us individual?? The notion of an I against a thou.

And lastly, if we preview our lives before living them, why can't we learn from the mistakes we'll make as we're watching? memory can be erased but understanding can't. why do we continue to make mistakes in our life if we've seen the consequences before being born? why doesn't the understanding carry over into physical life?

This way it is much more fun. Besides, who told you, you had previewed your life??

The "worthy" or higher vibrational thoughts(spiritual) will be accepted while "less worthy" lower vibrational thoughts(physical matter) will be blocked!

Where did you get the idea that some thoughts are higher or worthier than others?? A thought is a thought, they are unique in themselves, but none is higher or worthier than another.

You KNOW the answer, YOU are the answer, you ARE! By doing what your doing now is what you are supposed to be doing!

Yes, I agree to that.

that is of course unless you only concern yourself with non spiritual thoughts then you will never progress!

This is what I don't get, non-spiritual thoughts?? Name a typical spiritual thought, and a typical non-spiritual one. It is funny to know that so far I have not found an antonym for the word spiritual in any of the languages that crossed my eye. In other words, English has no word for non-spiritual. I wonder why...

well only until your next life when you die and rejoin you will realize what you were supposed to do and how it all went wrong and then go back again to try to do it.

"What you were supposed to do"?? Have you abandoned the "by doing what your are doing now you are doing what you are supposed to be doing"??

Why did the Egyptians use hieroglyphic's??

If you were to ask the Egyptians of those time to take a look at our alphabet, they would probably say something like, "He! I have never seen those hieroglyphs before." Our words are as much a picture as a hieroglyph is. Our pictures are simply a little more abstract, but then again: what do you expect from evolution??

[Yothu]

what makes someone choose to learn and another choose to self-eliminate?

we're all given equal opportunity. what makes us individual? I believe we have freedom of choice BECAUSE we're individuals, not the other way around.

When I read this, this popped into my mind:

We are individual, because (<emphasis) we have the freedom of choice.


My comment:

I do not think words can explain what lies behind our reasoning, but I think it is about discovery. First you're given a basic map but then, afterwards, you're set out into the world to travel it (the way?) all by yourself.

When "you are connected" - as this man probably describes in his NDE [1] - , you seem to more easily agree with the "existing" wisdom, to which in your waking state in the physical dimension you may not have "the same efficient and direct" access. To me it seems that in a state, where you are "connected" you seem to simply openly choose "the wisest decision" amongst many others. (because you may let go everything that may impede this act)

[1] http://www.nderf.org/ron_k's_nde.htm


Nice logo, Lena, btw :')

[Lena]

This is what I don't get, non-spiritual thoughts?? Name a typical spiritual thought, and a typical non-spiritual one. It is funny to know that so far I have not found an antonym for the word spiritual in any of the languages that crossed my eye. In other words, English has no word for non-spiritual. I wonder why...

The opposit of "spiritual" is "material". a spiritual thought, for example, would be to feel love for someone, while a materialistic thought would be deciding on what to make for dinner. both are valid and important thoughts, but one has more significant value to the higher self and one does not.

It is impossible to live in a physical body and not think materialistically sometimes, but it's important to remember the spiritual side of life and to have a balance between the two. unfortunately some people get so wrapped up in the materialistic world they completely forget and neglect their spirituality.


everyone had really interesting comments. thank you for replying.

[Bastian]

The opposit of "spiritual" is "material". a spiritual thought, for example, would be to feel love for someone, while a materialistic thought would be deciding on what to make for dinner.

Hmm, not sure if I would say they are opposite. I'm kind of thinking maybe yes, maybe no. I definitely believe that materialistic thoughts are a distraction that prevent you from taking the time to dwell on spiritual things. I guess if there was a spectrum of all the different kinds of thoughts then materialistic thoughts would be low down on the spectrum and thoughts that dwell on things that bring spiritual growth will be on the high end of the spectrum. Truth and Love being at the top I guess. So opposite ends of the spectrum huh But then I wouldn't say that Blue or UV are the opposite of Red or Infrared

Just my rambling 2 cents

[ShahKorR]

Originally posted by Alisima
This is what I don't get, non-spiritual thoughts?? Name a typical spiritual thought, and a typical non-spiritual one. It is funny to know that so far I have not found an antonym for the word spiritual in any of the languages that crossed my eye. In other words, English has no word for non-spiritual. I wonder why...

">The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot.
We human beings consider ourselves to be made up of "solid matter".
Actually the physical body is the end product, so to speak, of the subtle
information fields, which molds our physical body as well as all physical
matter. These fields are holograms, which change in time (and are)
outside the reach of our normal senses. This is what the clairvoyants
perceive as colorful egg-shaped halos of auras surrounding our physical body.”
-Itzhak Bentov:

">The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot.
We human beings consider ourselves to be made up of "solid matter".
Actually the physical body is the end product, so to speak, of the subtle
information fields, which molds our physical body as well as all physical
matter. These fields are holograms, which change in time (and are)
outside the reach of our normal senses. This is what the clairvoyants
perceive as colorful egg-shaped halos of auras surrounding our physical body.”
-Itzhak Bentov:


Bentov’s words lead us to our next thought in the holographic universe: our auras. (Coming up with the concept of starting with
select explanations of our Holographic Universe was like pulling concepts out of a hat. It is so very endless. And yet every
article we will submit to you will in some way address different aspects of the hologram.)
Let us start here with the discoveries of Valerie Hunt, a physical therapist and professor of Kinesiology at UCLA. Ms. Hunt developed
a way to confirm, through experiment, the existence of the human energy field.
Medical science has long known that we are electromagnetic beings. Doctors routinely use electrocardiographs (EKGs) and
electroencephalographs and -grams (EEGs) to record electrical activity of the heart and the brain, respectively. Hunt discovered
that an electromyograph, which measures the electrical impulses in muscles, can also pick up the electrical presence of the human
energy system.
Hunt's findings show that certain abilities seem to be related to the presence of specific frequencies in a person’s energy field. She
found that when the main focus of a person’s consciousness is the material world, the frequencies of the energy field tend to be
in the range of the body’s biological frequency, about 250 cycles per second (cps). However, those who are psychic or have healing
abilities tend to have energy field frequencies of roughly 400 to 800 cps. Further, people who can go into a trance and channel other
information operate in the band of 800 to 900 cps. Hunt found that mystical personalities are above 900cps and have been found to
go as high as 20,000 cps.
Hunt was also able to measure the particular colors of a person's energy field. She was able to see these patterns on an oscilloscope
- a device that converts electrical waves into a frequency wave pattern on a monochromatic video display screen. She tested numerous
psychics who saw the same thing in the human energy field of particular clients, and the frequencies read from the oscilloscope consistently matched the colors the psychics saw. Another aspect of the holographic theory is the dynamic linkage between mental images, the energy field and the physical body.
This can explain how imagery and visualization can heal the body. One researcher who believes it is the energy field that molds the body
(and not the other way around) is my friend Dr. Richard Gerber, the author of bestseller Vibrational Medicine. He explains that the etheric body is a holographic energy template that guides the growth and development of thephysical body. "Because the mental body feeds the energy into the astral/emotional body, which then funnels down into the etheric and physical bodies, healing a person at the mental level is stronger and produces longer lasting results than healing from either the astral or etheric levels," says Gerber. Again we see that our thoughts are constantly affecting the subtle energetic levels of the holographic universe.
We will end with the "The Hundredth Monkey Theory" and the potential of universal holographic thoughts. Imagine, if you will, one dynamic being, somewhere thinking, believing and speaking with intensity and integrity a pure thought of world peace. In a holographic image one can conceivably breathe in that same thought or even be a receptor of that thought, and continue that process. If sentient beings collectively imbibe that thought in the same way and then as generators send that thought out again with the possibility of its being received by others, there will be a point of threshold that will catapult that thought into a "new reality." Dare yourself to be the critical part of the collective consciousness that makes peace a reality!

This was from the site http://www.GopherCentral.com

just some info

[Alisima]

Hunt's findings show that certain abilities seem to be related to the presence of specific frequencies in a person’s energy field. She found that when the main focus of a person’s consciousness is the material world, the frequencies of the energy field tend to be in the range of the body’s biological frequency, about 250 cycles per second (cps). However, those who are psychic or have healing abilities tend to have energy field frequencies of roughly 400 to 800 cps. Further, people who can go into a trance and channel other information operate in the band of 800 to 900 cps. Hunt found that mystical personalities are above 900cps and have been found to go as high as 20,000 cps.

Well thanks, I never knew scientists where that far. 10 years ago this all belonged to metaphysics. But I am happy to see scienctists exploring that area too.

Before replying I will remind you of the original context. You said: "that is of course unless you only concern yourself with non spiritual thoughts then you will never progress!" Effectively saying that without enough spiritual thoughts one will not progress. Progress into what?? Do you know what you want to become??

Anyway, I responded by asking: what is the difference between a spiritual thought and a non-spiritual one?? Ofcourse I understand that the context of a thought can be spiritual or not. The thought, however, remains what it is, a thought. Nothing more. A spiritual orientated thought is a thought and a non-spiritual orientated thought is also a thought. There is no difference apart from the context. Just like you have a brand new car and a sloppy old car. Regardless of there looks, both cars do the same: they drive! Same with spiritual or non-spiritual orientated thoughts, they are part of the thought-process. Nothing more! Although a spiritual thought may seem 'higher', it is not!

Let go to the ancient cloud analogy: it doesn't matter whether you have beautiful or ugly coulds, both block the sun.

You see! How are you going to achieve no-mind, when you are full with spiritual mambo-jambo??

Man has only got one disease, that he divides the universe into God and Devil.

[Robanan]

Anyway, I responded by asking: what is the difference between a spiritual thought and a non-spiritual one?? Ofcourse I understand that the context of a thought can be spiritual or not. The thought, however, remains what it is, a thought. Nothing more. A spiritual orientated thought is a thought and a non-spiritual orientated thought is also a thought. There is no difference apart from the context. Just like you have a brand new car and a sloppy old car. Regardless of there looks, both cars do the same: they drive! Same with spiritual or non-spiritual orientated thoughts, they are part of the thought-process. Nothing more! Although a spiritual thought may seem 'higher', it is not!

You are right Alisima, your previous post was very good too (I wanted to make a comment about it and thank you for it but I decided not to... after thinking a little bit I came to the conclusion that others may not take it as seriously as it deserves to be taken.)

I think People are confusing Tom and the Book here, the reason seems to be because they think that having spiritual thoughts (what are they?) are the same as having spiritual experiences. They have to put effort into understanding that there is a great difference between thoughts and experiences in general, and that spiritual experiences do not happen even if you start thinking about them every day. As a matter of fact, like Alisima says, one may very well miss the point of life and reality if the person is to limit the self just by thinking according a predefined set of patterns.

Limiting the context of thoughts to a predefined set of patterns given that these patterns each have thier respective imaginary value (spiritual thoughts, material thoughts, football, painting, tarot cards, mathematics,... ) is the dilemma behind fanaticism.

If God needed spiritual thoughts, to experience spirituality. He would have never created the universe the way it is now.

[Lena]

I think People are confusing Tom and the Book here, the reason seems to be because they think that having spiritual thoughts (what are they?) are the same as having spiritual experiences. They have to put effort into understanding that there is a great difference between thoughts and experiences in general, and that spiritual experiences do not happen even if you start thinking about them every day. As a matter of fact, like Alisima says, one may very well miss the point of life and reality if the person is to limit the self just by thinking according a predefined set of patterns.

thanks for the input, Robanan, that helps me to better understand what Alisma was saying. but isn't it evident that "spiritual thoughts," or "spiritual experiences," vibrate at a higher frequency than "non spiritual thoughts," like we saw in the article ShahKorR posted?

[ShahKorR]

I am putting it right out there for all to shoot me down!!!

Your brain does not hold thoughts for you to pluck out. It is a very special multi purpose tool.
Everything vibrates, Our bodies are just a billions of single atoms vibrating at certain rates.
Matter is created from low vibrational frequencies. Thoughts travel at higher vibrational frequencies and we tune into them. By thinking of certain things your brain generates and broadcasts the frequency. When it comes into contact with a similiar frequency, it then resonates with this actual thought frequency which surrounds everything and the planet and so you tune into the thought.

much of this is actually mentioned here and there by Thao but i do not have enough time to post the pages. I am sure there are others who know that info.

It will be interesting to see your replies ladies and gents I wish to have more understanding.

Please read;
"stalking the wild pendulum" by Itzhak Bentov
"The universe is a green dragon" by Brian Swimme
"Chaos,Creativity and Cosmic Consciousness" by Rupert sheldrake,Terence Mckenna and Ralph Abraham.
"The Rebirth of Nature" by Rupert Sheldrake
"A New Science of life" by Rupert Drake
"The presence of the past-Morphic Resonance and the habits of nature by Rupert Sheldrake

[ShahKorR]

I forgot to mention that what I am describing is only the mechanism by which things happen. It is the science side of the answer. It isn’t the answer to the "why are we here?, what are we doing?" questions.

[Robanan]

I think People are confusing Tom and the Book here, the reason seems to be because they think that having spiritual thoughts (what are they?) are the same as having spiritual experiences. They have to put effort into understanding that there is a great difference between thoughts and experiences in general, and that spiritual experiences do not happen even if you start thinking about them every day. As a matter of fact, like Alisima says, one may very well miss the point of life and reality if the person is to limit the self just by thinking according a predefined set of patterns.

thanks for the input, Robanan, that helps me to better understand what Alisma was saying. but isn't it evident that "spiritual thoughts," or "spiritual experiences," vibrate at a higher frequency than "non spiritual thoughts," like we saw in the article ShahKorR posted?

The preferences of these subjects:

1) are psychic or have healing abilities,
2) can go into a trance and channel other information
3) mystical personalities

is not clear from the article posted by ShahKorR, so it is impossible to imagine what actually was tested. We need to know what these subjects focused their consciousness on, or were thinking about, or were experiencing at the moment (in laboratory conditions there is not much to experience anyway).

There is one thing clear for me, there are different people who can raise the vibrations of their aura to different levels, if to trust the article the range seems to be from about 250(cps) up to 20,000(cps). Do notice that we are talking exclusively about the auric vibrations (electrical presence of the human energy system) and not the vibrations of thoughts or experiences.

The interaction of this system (electrical presence of the human energy system) with other systems is not discussed in the article, and the "The Hundredth Monkey Theory" talks about telepathy without even considering the smallest probability that maybe information is produced and processed in the mind-consciousness-intellect interrelated subsystem available to the self of each individual.

You are most welcome Lena, btw I like our new logo