Derren Brown

[Yothu]

Just watched Derren Brown's "Séance" yesterday.

Google for a review. It's fascinating how these students were able to generate, to produce, to create this whole "séance" themselves by themselves. It gave me something to think definately. Obviously our minds are very powerful. I start beginning to understand why our beliefs are so important and why they can be so limiting.

[anonymousbeing]

Glad you start to grasp the power of the mind. Keep discovering. I think my job here is done.

[Yothu]

I think my job here is done.

Done? You're leaving us that fast?

Quite interesting topic you brought up. I wonder what the reason is that Channel 4 decided not to air details of the séance (think of the "séance-ball") and if Derren Brown's super-memory capabilities are genuine (means that it is in fact photographic memory) or if he is using the technique "to read people's mind" or "mind-guessing".
I here think of a scene where Derren looks at a building for 15 seconds, then draws it on a paper as good as he can remember whilst ordering his "guest" to move his eyes over the object, exploring all the details, with Derren looking in his eyes.

[Yothu]

What I actually mean in the above paragraph has a name. Derren Brown himself, in his TV show "Séance", simply calls it "a fraudulent technique" used by so-called psychics:

Cold reading is a technique used by salespeople, interrogators, hypnotists, psychics, graphologists, palmists, astrologers, con men and others to convince another person that they know more about them than they actually do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading

[Zark]

I haved watched the Messiah. The mind is POWERFUL. We ,in this forum, know very little about it and even how to use it...

Well I am at least sympathetic to your point of view. If we really knew a lot about how the mind / body / spirit works then I would expect we, as a group, would be mind reading, telepathic, levitating, aura seeing, etc etc

We are all ignorant to some degree. To say otherwise would be arrogant. Being somewhat ignorant it is tempting to indulge in clever word games and silly meaningless waffle. Or at least I know I do from time to time

[Zark]

On the contra Yothu, children are special, a young uncorrupted mind=a very very healthy mind, kids do learn at lightning speed.

Perhaps. However a childs brain is in peak health, is being pushed every day to absorb lots of new information (think of the brain like a muscle), and in a state of growth (more new neurons, new connections, etc).. these will have an impact on their learning ability.

[Zark]

.. Childeren sense the reality, the person, and adults just make assumptions and deductions. The assumptions and deductions are filled with personal bias and thus untrue, spoiled and unpure. ...

That isn't my experience.

For example: I have a little dog, a very gentle good natured dog. It doesn't bite people. It loves to be patted by strangers.. no growling or any of that nonsense. Our dog was quite young and small. A little kid, must have been about 3 or 4 years old was terribly scared of our little dog. That child certainly misjudged the nature of my dog.

I showed the child that the dog was harmless and wouldn't bite. What did the kid do? He proceeded to bash my dog around the head.

I am far from convinced that children have such a wonderfully developed ability to read the 'reality' of a person. If they were able to.. then how is it that pedophiles lure them with gifts and ice creams so easily?. Perhaps some children are naturals and some are not?

[Zark]

Cold reading is a technique used by salespeople, interrogators, hypnotists, psychics, graphologists, palmists, astrologers, con men and others to convince another person that they know more about them than they actually do.

I haven't watched his shows.. but after looking at the magicians only section (woops ) I had the impression that he uses some kinds of suggestion techniques (including words) to get people to pick the right cards / image / whatever.

".. many contemporary performers, including Richard Osterlind, Banachek and Derren Brown choose to attribute their results to other skills: the ability to read body language or to manipulate the subject subliminally through psychological suggestion, for example. In the trade, this is known as "working clean." -- from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mentalism

* This one is spooky at first. Read the instructions or it wont work.
(Please let others have a go before giving out the spoiler on how it works )
http://www.mysticalball.com/

* Real mind reading? Scanning the brain using MRI machines / electrodes
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7304

[survivor]

Easily worked this one out.

* This one is spooky at first. Read the instructions or it wont work.
(Please let others have a go before giving out the spoiler on how it works )
http://www.mysticalball.com/

[Zark]

Easily worked this one out.

hehehe .. I was so amazed at first.. so simple it is disapointing to be tricked so easily. I was wondering what crazy kind of programming trick is being used. I am a programmer, you would think I would know right?

[shezmear]

Man....that ball does my head in...

[Yothu]

I haven't watched his shows.. but after looking at the magicians only section (woops Very Happy) I had the impression that he uses some kinds of suggestion techniques (including words) to get people to pick the right cards / image / whatever.

Yes, sometimes it is quite obvious. For example in one of his shows he lets three people fix a certain number in their minds. He reveals the sum of all three numbers and lets another person sum up the results of all three persons too. They both, Derren and the forth person, come up with the date of the day which is even pinned up on a bridge in the background. I don't know exactly how he did it, but it had to be some kind of "reverse guessing" if you understand what I mean.

Do not reveal the ball thing. I have to get behind the riddle still.

[Alisima]

.. Childeren sense the reality, the person, and adults just make assumptions and deductions. The assumptions and deductions are filled with personal bias and thus untrue, spoiled and unpure. ...

That isn't my experience.

For example: I have a little dog, a very gentle good natured dog. It doesn't bite people. It loves to be patted by strangers.. no growling or any of that nonsense. Our dog was quite young and small. A little kid, must have been about 3 or 4 years old was terribly scared of our little dog. That child certainly misjudged the nature of my dog.

I showed the child that the dog was harmless and wouldn't bite. What did the kid do? He proceeded to bash my dog around the head.

I am far from convinced that children have such a wonderfully developed ability to read the 'reality' of a person. If they were able to.. then how is it that pedophiles lure them with gifts and ice creams so easily?. Perhaps some children are naturals and some are not?

Hmm... What I should have said that childeren sense the reality better. Not 100% accurate.

[Yothu]

.. Childeren sense the reality, the person, and adults just make assumptions and deductions. The assumptions and deductions are filled with personal bias and thus untrue, spoiled and unpure. ...

That isn't my experience.

[...] That child certainly misjudged the nature of my dog.

I showed the child that the dog was harmless and wouldn't bite. What did the kid do? He proceeded to bash my dog around the head.

I am far from convinced that children have such a wonderfully developed ability to read the 'reality' of a person. If they were able to.. then how is it that pedophiles lure them with gifts and ice creams so easily?. Perhaps some children are naturals and some are not?

Hmm... What I should have said that childeren sense the reality better. Not 100% accurate.

What "reality" are you talking about exactly? Each of us has his/her own reality in a way. How can somebody be able to "sense reality better"?

Your words sound deep but without further explaining your statement is as good as "Men are the better cooks." (to me)

And yeah, before posting in this topic, which is called "Derren Brown", it might be a good idea to actually watch some of his TV shows not to hijack this topic and be better able to draw a connection between whatever concerns Derren Brown and connects to his work.

So, if I feel the need, I'll split the topic and start a new one called "Do children sense reality better?" (any other suggestions?) in this very subforum.

[Alisima]

What "reality" are you talking about exactly? Each of us has his/her own reality in a way. How can somebody be able to "sense reality better"?

It is a good question, and you are right: everybody has his own reality. You might have heard the idea that there are as many worlds/realities as there are minds. And that is true, every mind interprets in it's own unique way. So, the reality you see through your mind is absolutely different, if only in small details, from any other being who sees it through his mind. So there are 6 billions realities! Then the question which reality I am talking about becomes a great question. Because which one of the 6 billion is correct?? Well, here is a resounding answer: None!! All those 6 billion realities are illusionary. Some may be beautifull, some may be ugly, some may be intellectual, some may be passionate, but all are illusionary. But a child is born without mind, without interpretative-faculty. That is why a child is so fresh and sees everything as new, it is! For him everything is new, he has no previous boardens to carry, that is why he looks so innocent. So every child is born no-mind, and with no-mind how can you interpret reality?? You can't, you can only see it. So everything that you see, hear, feel, smell and touch with no-mind isn't spoiled, isn't interpreted. That reality, that no-mind reality, that is what I was talking about. So when I say a child senses reality better, I don't mean your reality, nor mine, nor his, nor anybodies. I mean the reality which is the fundamental basis for your life, I mean the reality upon which we all impose our idea's, upon which we all interpret, that reality.