Start?
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- PyroKinetic
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:37 pm
Start?
Ok i see that you people are talking about starting a civilization/community, but are u gonna do it or no? Sorry for short post.
I completely agree with survivor, setting up such a thing is a great endeavour; not something done in a fortnight. Yet on the other hand, I completely disagree with him. It is an extremely easy process and takes no effort whatsoever. How come? Let me explain.
A spiritual community, or society, depends on it's inhabitants. Without decent inhabitants such a community would not hold it's ground. In fact, a spiritual community IS simply another word for a bunch of spiritual people living together, however rude that may sound. The spiritual community therefor depends on each of it's inhabitants weaknesses and strenghts. In other words, if you try to build a spiritual community with a bunch of egoistic materialists, you probably won't succeed. And if you try it with those who THINK they are spiritual, while in fact aren't, you won't succeed either. My point is, and this can't be emphasized enough, is that any community is depended on it's inhabitants, and especially a spiritual community.
Inhabitants can thus drag a community down, but they can also make a community flowrish. In other words, the moment the general population becomes more spiritual, the society they live in becomes more spiritual too. The endeavour should thus not be on the creation of a spiritual community, but on the creation of spiritual people. Once there are enough spiritual people, the community/society they live in automatically transforms and it takes no one no effort whatsoever.
Perphase it is somewhat idealistic, but with enough spiritual people, the whole earth will become spiritual. It is a simple as that. Problem solved.
Well, to be honest I haven't solved anything. I simply shifted the problem from 'creating a spiritual society' to 'creating spiritual people'. The problem of 'creating a spiritual society' is thus solved, but a new one fills the gap: how to create more spiritual people. Althought there is no qualitative difference, we had one problem and we still have one now, there is difference in the way the problem is to be solved. Creating a spiritual society is very difficult, you need to have land, have rules, have money, etc. The creation of more spiritual people is exceedingly less difficult and better yet: you can start right now. *hint* *hint* *hint*
Note: I am not suggesting for you to change others. Please don't, only harm comes from that.
A spiritual community, or society, depends on it's inhabitants. Without decent inhabitants such a community would not hold it's ground. In fact, a spiritual community IS simply another word for a bunch of spiritual people living together, however rude that may sound. The spiritual community therefor depends on each of it's inhabitants weaknesses and strenghts. In other words, if you try to build a spiritual community with a bunch of egoistic materialists, you probably won't succeed. And if you try it with those who THINK they are spiritual, while in fact aren't, you won't succeed either. My point is, and this can't be emphasized enough, is that any community is depended on it's inhabitants, and especially a spiritual community.
Inhabitants can thus drag a community down, but they can also make a community flowrish. In other words, the moment the general population becomes more spiritual, the society they live in becomes more spiritual too. The endeavour should thus not be on the creation of a spiritual community, but on the creation of spiritual people. Once there are enough spiritual people, the community/society they live in automatically transforms and it takes no one no effort whatsoever.
Perphase it is somewhat idealistic, but with enough spiritual people, the whole earth will become spiritual. It is a simple as that. Problem solved.
Well, to be honest I haven't solved anything. I simply shifted the problem from 'creating a spiritual society' to 'creating spiritual people'. The problem of 'creating a spiritual society' is thus solved, but a new one fills the gap: how to create more spiritual people. Althought there is no qualitative difference, we had one problem and we still have one now, there is difference in the way the problem is to be solved. Creating a spiritual society is very difficult, you need to have land, have rules, have money, etc. The creation of more spiritual people is exceedingly less difficult and better yet: you can start right now. *hint* *hint* *hint*
Note: I am not suggesting for you to change others. Please don't, only harm comes from that.
Don't read my signature.
- PyroKinetic
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:37 pm
Tom is? are you sure?? Ive heard him say the opposite on TFOC forum before, directly. Has he changed his mind?
Anyway, what 'mental -theme = meme' do we want in a longer term picture?
Keep in mind, that donations of money are totally redundant. How about time, materials, exchange of useful utility i.e. practical barter system that loops around to benefit all participants - we NEED a flow chart for this, b/c anything made of matter as a monitored exchange can be corruptible. And so can non-matter....keep in mind this chart is not intended and must be circulated if so, on the premise that its a GUIDE and not limited in application only to what ideas on it are actually written down. There must always be flexibility.
When I think back to Mu and their non-crime happiness and non-monetary sharing, I also think of the psychosphere pyramid access points around the globe in mexico, china, and perhaps other places not yet discovered [tibet, brazil according to some websites].
There was no crime because people were with nature as a whole, plus any possible crime was revealed through searching the natural record around the earth. This was proved of course, whenever it had to be used. Today, there is noise everywhere which disrupts or may delete parts of this natural time-record. WHAT held that society together?? The *sincere* knowledge and respect of nature, of fellow men, and of the great spirit are necessary to truly succeed. a deep trust. Each sector of 'the new society' has to be WILLing to exchange utility [economic term] this way, on a constant ongoing basis.
how??? sometimes i think its really a case-by case situation, since circumstances are always different. but dynamically there clearly is some sort of equilibrium. The trick is to find out WHAT those critical things needed are, so everything else works. I dunno.
Anyway, what 'mental -theme = meme' do we want in a longer term picture?
Keep in mind, that donations of money are totally redundant. How about time, materials, exchange of useful utility i.e. practical barter system that loops around to benefit all participants - we NEED a flow chart for this, b/c anything made of matter as a monitored exchange can be corruptible. And so can non-matter....keep in mind this chart is not intended and must be circulated if so, on the premise that its a GUIDE and not limited in application only to what ideas on it are actually written down. There must always be flexibility.
When I think back to Mu and their non-crime happiness and non-monetary sharing, I also think of the psychosphere pyramid access points around the globe in mexico, china, and perhaps other places not yet discovered [tibet, brazil according to some websites].
There was no crime because people were with nature as a whole, plus any possible crime was revealed through searching the natural record around the earth. This was proved of course, whenever it had to be used. Today, there is noise everywhere which disrupts or may delete parts of this natural time-record. WHAT held that society together?? The *sincere* knowledge and respect of nature, of fellow men, and of the great spirit are necessary to truly succeed. a deep trust. Each sector of 'the new society' has to be WILLing to exchange utility [economic term] this way, on a constant ongoing basis.
how??? sometimes i think its really a case-by case situation, since circumstances are always different. but dynamically there clearly is some sort of equilibrium. The trick is to find out WHAT those critical things needed are, so everything else works. I dunno.
- PyroKinetic
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:37 pm
Ye but i visted his websites and he just goes to his place for like temporary time, like a vacation, i wonder if he would let any of us build something for ourselves their.bomohwkl wrote:well...Tom has its own land. I heard that he lives alone. He is willing to take on members.dloheb wrote:Forming our own community? Seems quite pointless... and probably counter-productive.
To whoever interested to start a new community, have you asked yourself why you want to do it?
IMO, why is the most important consideration, more important than where, who, when & how. It concerns the motive / purpose / reason of building a community from scratch. If it is just so that you can be (relatively) free from pollution, monetary system, and perhaps people, think again. Is there a hint of escapism or perfectionism in your objective?
To form a community among existing forum members is something I consider unfeasible at the moment, for reasons discussed in other topics of this forum. If you feel that to move away from your existing community is of utmost urgency, there are a few options you may consider:
- to stay alone (like Tom),
- to join an exsiting alternative community (like a few communities mentioned in other topics of this forum),
- or to change your perspective towards your existing community and reacting differently, eg: to love the people and the environment.
Before you act on something drastic (option 1 & 2), try option 3, which IMO is the biggest challenge. Forming a new community does not guarantee a Utopia. People come from different backgrounds and have different ideas of implementing a perfect community. Even if physical infrastructure gets finalized, people still have various habits that come from different cultures and upbringing. In the end, it boils down to how to live with others in peace. No matter staying on or building a new home, the first and foremost requirement is to learn to love others.
After all consideration, if you still think that you want to go ahead, please do and I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart. Just don't forget to do a good job, something as impressive as Tom's Mt Best.[/b]
IMO, why is the most important consideration, more important than where, who, when & how. It concerns the motive / purpose / reason of building a community from scratch. If it is just so that you can be (relatively) free from pollution, monetary system, and perhaps people, think again. Is there a hint of escapism or perfectionism in your objective?
To form a community among existing forum members is something I consider unfeasible at the moment, for reasons discussed in other topics of this forum. If you feel that to move away from your existing community is of utmost urgency, there are a few options you may consider:
- to stay alone (like Tom),
- to join an exsiting alternative community (like a few communities mentioned in other topics of this forum),
- or to change your perspective towards your existing community and reacting differently, eg: to love the people and the environment.
Before you act on something drastic (option 1 & 2), try option 3, which IMO is the biggest challenge. Forming a new community does not guarantee a Utopia. People come from different backgrounds and have different ideas of implementing a perfect community. Even if physical infrastructure gets finalized, people still have various habits that come from different cultures and upbringing. In the end, it boils down to how to live with others in peace. No matter staying on or building a new home, the first and foremost requirement is to learn to love others.
After all consideration, if you still think that you want to go ahead, please do and I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart. Just don't forget to do a good job, something as impressive as Tom's Mt Best.[/b]
Very good point Aisin. I agree that it is motive that is most important to the establishment of a spiritual community, and that the perfectionism and escapism ideals should be thouroughly re-thought. I remember having this sort of discussion in this topic last year. Most of the ideas discussed there focused on establishing that sort of society structure in our existing towns cities, and down to the smallest and important part--the community. How existing government structure could benefit an upgraded and spiritually aware community.Aisin wrote:To whoever interested to start a new community, have you asked yourself why you want to do it?
IMO, why is the most important consideration, more important than where, who, when & how . It concerns the motive / purpose / reason of building a community from scratch. If it is just so that you can be (relatively) free from pollution, monetary system, and perhaps people, think again. Is there a hint of escapism or perfectionism in your objective?
This of course, all assumes that at some time in the future, enough people wake up to the tyranny and enslavement of the political and financial complex to initiate a peaceful and total reform of their respective society, and perhaps lead other cities/nations by example. My point is this: You certainly cannot just leave off to some island hidden away to practice a natural and spiritual community when you leave YOUR community behind to do so.
I like my community, and my neighbors, and I would stand up and do something here when possible. Rather than sitting around and thinking "I could set up a better civilization than this" and plan to leave to do it. Why not help be an inspiration for it in your own neighborhood? Why aren't things like this discussed out in the open? I bet the avg intelligent person would agree with your point of view if explained properly, so why not?
That's why I think adopting a view of a seperatist sort of society is a mistake, and serves to draw a division between "us & them". I know it can be frustrating to exist in our current situations, but it is up to us to change all of that personally.
Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you. For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. - Gospel of Thomas
Definitely - I forgot to mention that - so many things went through my head in my earlier post this really is the key, is working w/what you have.
Ive already started doing this, in terms of current events, Ive suddenly found myself expressing what I really think, to my friends. It wasnt easy but it helped me to realize that if you get out there and speak to people you know about it, some of them will come around at least partially. If it doesnt start a community and even if it causes a temporary harship it certainly liberates the part of the mind that otherwise is bogged down w/a deep desire to express such ideas.
The more we discuss in "real life", the more we'll know what things we do want. However the 'how' part I do think is also important.
Im not sure where Ill be living in the next year or so -- but I'll probably want some type of farm setup for sure. Hopefully the part of NJ where I move wont be contaminated w/GMO crops - I may have to move to another state. Anyway Ive made out my business plan already its just a matter of researching actual towns, etc.
Ive already started doing this, in terms of current events, Ive suddenly found myself expressing what I really think, to my friends. It wasnt easy but it helped me to realize that if you get out there and speak to people you know about it, some of them will come around at least partially. If it doesnt start a community and even if it causes a temporary harship it certainly liberates the part of the mind that otherwise is bogged down w/a deep desire to express such ideas.
The more we discuss in "real life", the more we'll know what things we do want. However the 'how' part I do think is also important.
Im not sure where Ill be living in the next year or so -- but I'll probably want some type of farm setup for sure. Hopefully the part of NJ where I move wont be contaminated w/GMO crops - I may have to move to another state. Anyway Ive made out my business plan already its just a matter of researching actual towns, etc.
I think most people like to escape from the rat race in order to find happiness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_race
is a nice description. I like the idea of working for myself.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_race
is a nice description. I like the idea of working for myself.
What would be the point of building a "better" society in the suburbs? Surrounded by, consistent loud noise and polluted air!
Yep, Bomo, I'm with you. I can tell ya that the rat race is not for me. I hope to be in the country within a year or two. Sometimes I really can't stand general people.![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
Yep, Bomo, I'm with you. I can tell ya that the rat race is not for me. I hope to be in the country within a year or two. Sometimes I really can't stand general people.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
an act against {free will} is an act against nature